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11-05-2013, 06:16 AM   #1
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Why does it seem like everyone is bashing the Nikon Df?

The Nikon Df has been announced, and why does it appear that everyone is bashing it? I understand that there's no video, it's very expensive for what it is, and the sensor has relatively low resolution, but I feel that this camera will gain a cult following.

This camera is more like a Leica than a mass-market Nikon DSLR. What's wrong with that?

--DragonLord

11-05-2013, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #2
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It is the internet, is all. I hope Nikon makes decent money with the camera.
11-05-2013, 06:29 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Leica is expensive, but it's not a gimmick. I think the preview over at DP review is pretty fair, but I'll be more harsh, the DF is the photographic equivalent of this., but a lot more expensive.

If people want old glass, Pentax' green button is the way to go. That's "pure photography" in the digital age. While I read on the DF you have to set the aperture on non-AI lenses *and* set it on the body. Ad hoc to say the least.

And a .7x viewfinder? What's under that big ass pentaprism hump? Not a flash we know that much. Empty space?
11-05-2013, 07:09 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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One of the reasons some people are so disappointed is this...

Nikon went to the trouble of designing a modern camera that operates much like the old manual focus film cameras. Nikon added the fold-able meter coupling lever back onto the camera so it can mount all Nikkors. Then Nikon installs a dinky .7x magnification 15mm eye-point viewfinder with a fixed focus screen more suited to an AF camera. A focus screen that is not interchangeable if reviewers and their spec sheet are correct, so you can't even look to a third party for a split-prism screen. No new focus aid like focus peaking. Just the "focus confirmation", which so many of us find isn't exactly the most accurate method when trying to focus a mf lens.

The number of people I have seen on multiple forums who were quite excited about this release, and then just immediately lost interest because of this one issue is significant - I think Nikon has lost a large number of almost guaranteed sales just because they failed to put in a higher magnification, higher eye-point OVF either with better focusing aids or the ability to accept a different focusing screen.

Some will still buy the camera. But I don't think sales are going to be anywhere near what they should have been for this concept.

11-05-2013, 07:19 AM   #5
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Sadly, a lot of people bashing it just for the sake of bashing...
Many doesn't get the point of the camera, especially those who expect something Transformers-looking camera with all that fancy high-tech features...
And about the price point, I think they're not realizing it's an introductory price. When the D700 first came out, the introductory price was around $3,000. And I think many are expecting it to be a cheepo camera, that's why they bash it real good...
11-05-2013, 07:24 AM   #6
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Why do people bash the k-5II, the k-3, the Sony A7 and it's brother, etc....

Just because someone is impressed by one camera doesn't mean that person will be equally impressed by other cameras coming out.
11-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #7
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Yeah, JinDesu. The DF hasn't received nearly the vitriol that the A7 received on this forum. I don't hate the camera, but it's just not for me. The 16mp sensor was a mistake for this camera. They could have gone 16mp, used the high end AF, a larger battery(the V1 has a larger battery) and allowed the camera to shoot at 8fps. They could have made this the successor to the D700, which they still don't have. They decided not to do that, fine. This is not a sport camera. Then they should have used the 24 or 36mp sensors. There is no ISO advantage between the D4 sensor and the D800 or D600 sensors. Why did they pick it if they didn't want to keep the FPS high and if there was no low light advantage? Aesthetically, it's just short of beautiful. They missed the mark, in my opinion. I think it's too cramped. Functionally, I prefer e-dials. I think it's easier to change settings without removing your eye from the finder, and this only has one. I prefer the A7's ergonomics. Nikon can make whatever they want, but this didn't resonate with me, and I won't be buying it. I don't think that's bashing it, but if you really have to set the aperture on the lens and the body, well that is kind of stupid .

11-05-2013, 09:13 AM   #8
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I don't have any particular complaint about the camera, except that it seems pretty high priced for what it is. I guess you are paying for smaller and decreased functionality. But if I was going to spend 2800 dollars on a camera, I think I would prefer the D800, despite its size, to the DF. But I haven't bashed it. It's really a non-factor for me and I would hope that if Pentax does make a full frame camera, it is more like the D800 than the DF.
11-05-2013, 09:29 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The Nikon Df has been announced, and why does it appear that everyone is bashing it? I understand that there's no video, it's very expensive for what it is, and the sensor has relatively low resolution, but I feel that this camera will gain a cult following.

This camera is more like a Leica than a mass-market Nikon DSLR. What's wrong with that?
People don't like not having, or not being able to have the things they want. If, however, you don't want something, then you are not deprived by not having it. I think a lot of product bashing is from people trying to convince themselves that they don't want something.
11-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #10
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I'm not a big fan of zombie-cameras coming back from the dead; I prefer new thinking for old problems. I also worry that a digital-LX would divert Ricoh resources that have better places to be, as the LX itself was a rarified film product - please Ricoh, don't go down this path.
11-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
People don't like not having, or not being able to have the things they want. If, however, you don't want something, then you are not deprived by not having it. I think a lot of product bashing is from people trying to convince themselves that they don't want something.
I don't know, why do people post threads about a Nikon cameras on a Pentax forum? Especially when those who are interested can go to the sister site that is devoted to Nikon. Must be some kind of bash wish.

I didn't bash it, in fact I said, in the end if Pentax made it, and did it right, which I'm thinking Nikon didn't, I'd really like it. But the simple fact is, it doesn't use Pentax glass, and I'm a practical kind of guy.

The one thing I'd really like would be the old stop down metering where I set the aperture on the lens. The camera leaves the lens wide open for focusing and then stops down when the picture is taken. I could easily see what my DoF was etc. just by looking at the DoF scale on the lens. I could change the aperture on the lens a system I much preferred to trying to set the f-Stop with a dial watching a little screen. Apparently, while the Df is an attempt to go retro, it isn't what I want.

Now I can go through all the effort to figure all that out, or I can just call it names. So in the end, I resent even answering this post about it. It made me think way more about this camera than it deserves. But I honestly think the guys who just say "it sucks " and move on are smarter than me. I knew I wouldn't like it in the end, and wasted a lot of time figuring out why.

I'd still buy a digital K-1000 with the stop down lever, and manual lens controls and a DoF guide on top of the lens with at least 4 f-stops on it..... but that isn't what this is. This is modern done retro, with a few of the old features, but not many of the important ones.
11-05-2013, 09:56 AM   #12
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I've read a lot of comments about this camera in a number of forums, and while some people undoubtedly "bash" it, most people seem disappointed in two things: the non-interchangeable focussing screen, which is not optimised for manual focus and the price. Given that Nikon made a big issue of the fact that the Df can take any F-mount lens, particularly the older manual focus ones, they rather made a rod for their back by not having a better screen available. Also, given that the functionality falls intentionally short of the D600, the price - akin to that of the D800 (a far more capable camera on paper) - seems rather high, though I do take the point that this is probably more of a niche product.

I don't think that this amounts to "bashing", which I rather equate to unfair or unreasoned criticism. And I don't hold with the pomposity of being told, "if you don't like it, don't buy it". I do like it - I think it looks great, but I won't be buying one at the current price, which is in excess of 2,700 (over $4,000) in the UK (we don't have the choice of saving $250 by having the body only - I already have a 50mm f1.8). It's not that I can't afford it, it's just that I would feel somewhat exploited (ripped off?), and that would spoil my enjoyment of it. Maybe if it ever falls to below 2,000 I will reconsider.
11-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I didn't bash it, in fact I said, in the end if Pentax made it, and did it right, which I'm thinking Nikon didn't, I'd really like it. But the simple fact is, it doesn't use Pentax glass, and I'm a practical kind of guy.
Norm, I didn't see your post that you are referencing. I still don't see it. In another thread maybe? Anyway, my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular; it was a general statement referring to a common coping mechanism that most everyone has used at some time.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I don't know, why do people post threads about a Nikon cameras on a Pentax forum? Especially when those who are interested can go to the sister site that is devoted to Nikon. Must be some kind of bash wish
There are at least as many reasons for it as there are posters. What confuses me is why some posters try so hard to find some reason to take offense at someone's post when none whatsoever was intended.
11-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The Nikon Df has been announced, and why does it appear that everyone is bashing it? I understand that there's no video, it's very expensive for what it is, and the sensor has relatively low resolution, but I feel that this camera will gain a cult following.
I agree. The only legitimate gripe against the camera is the .7x viewfinder. That, however, is probably a trade-off to keep the thing relatively small. In all other respects, the camera is what it should be. The reason for the bashing is that this camera represents a challenge and even a kind of reproach to the whole gearhead crowd, who dominate internet review sites and forums. They don't like the camera because it doesn't satisfy their lust for numerical specs and "new" technology which "moves things forward." However, there are many photographers who are not gearheads, and who sometimes find digital cameras way too complicated. My sister is a semi-pro book cover photographer. While she's fine with the external controls of the camera, if she has to dive into a menu she pretty much done for and has to scramble for the manual. At least half the photographers I know are at least partly, if not nearly entirely, computer illiterate. They struggle with a lot of this new tech. A camera that wraps some best part of the digital technology into a more analog wrapper might be just the thing for that demographic.
11-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #15
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It's a camera made to be hyped, more than being usable.
Retro, but only the top (and I believe those retro dials are overrated, and would mostly hurt usability). Cannot use lens aperture rings. Can mount pre-AI lenses but you'll have to use them in a cumbersome way - AFAIK you'd have to set the same aperture on the lens and on the camera. Pentax gets blamed by having "press a button" stop down metering... Its viewfinder is nothing special (for a $2750 FF DSLR).

I hope Pentax would make a "Limited" FF DSLR, but a modern one. Build quality, the viewfinder, small size, quietness could be the differentiators, instead of simply trying to put some old style dials on top of a DSLR.
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