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07-05-2014, 04:41 PM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
DSC01895
Sigma 60 on A7, big crop from original





DSC07567


DSC07566

quick answer: No

The above two shots show the Sigma 60 looks on A7. I use it in a pinch in FF non-crop mode on A7. There will be vignette. And you will get less vignette if you remove the rear baffle. On LR5.4, there is lens profile correction and vignette corner lens effect which works extremely well for Sigma 30 and to a lesser degree on Sigma 60. Sigma 30 vignette less on corners. For sigma 60, without any post processing, a slight crop with 1.2x focal length or 72mm field of view will clear most of the vignette. You can also experiment with Clear Image Zoom of 1.2x but the feature only works in JPG mode and the focusing is odd with green rectangle and I use DMF to fine tune the focus. Clear Image Zoom don't work in Raw and I can't figure out the reason with big green rectangle upon focus. I now prefer the straight use in non-crop FF mode and post process the vignette -- much easier with LR.

I won't recommend highly usage of Sigma 60/30/19 on A7/r/s but in lack of AF lens, that is what I do in a pinch in sharing equipment between my A7 and NEX. When I manage to save up enough for the FE 55mm f/1.8, I will leave the Sigma charms for the NEX. They are the best value lens for aps-c. I wish Sigma will come out with similar lens series for the FE.


DSC07538
Shot with A7 and Sigma 30 in non crop FF mode
  • baffle is removed
  • non-crop mode
  • PP with both Lens Profile correction along with Lens Effect on Vignette post crop adjustment in LR

The above product shot on Sigm 60 was shot with Sigma 30 on A7 in non-crop mode. PP is needed to address the vignette in LR in either lens correction or lens effect vignette corner. It is in the lower right side menu in LR. Look for Lens Profile Correction and Lens Effect with Post Crop Vignette.

And if you don't do anything on editing, vignette will happen, more on smaller apertures. The following shot probably has a slight crop already and I didn't apply lens correction along with post-crop vignette adjustment in LR.


DSC02037
Sigma 60 on A7 with slight crop



DSC02029
Sigma 60 on A7 with bigger crop, still traces of vignette, will be gone if I use the LR vignette post crop adjustment



DSC07574
Sigma 30 on A7

This is how Sigma 30 looks on A7 and it works better on A7 in regards to vignette. There will always be vignette to deal with. Expecting none will be unrealistic with these aps-c lens usage on full frame non-crop mode.
Hin
Thanks - very clear and very helpful. Probably not a suitable solution for me but I reckon it would be worth adapting for those who are already in possession of this lens. Think I would prefer to save up the many pennies for the FE 55 which has mouth watering capabilities.

07-06-2014, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #677
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
OMG, that is a perfect portrait ! BTW , what was the aperture on the A50mm F1.4 ? I am guessing F4 ?

Thanks.
Yes, it was f4



QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
x2 pinholecam, what an outstanding shot.

imho, it's not all about the equipment, that pic would have looked nice if it was shot with a point and shoot.

this whole series of pics that you have been posting have been great, thx!
Thanks for the encouragement.
The portrait is part of my 'less gear purchase' idea of buying props for shooting family and friends instead of always spend on gears and not on photos, but it never fully picked off.




QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Just beautiful. When you have a chance, I like to learn from you post processing steps. There is always a pop in your picture and I especially like the natural looking in the shot.

Cheers,
Hin
Hin, thanks.

The portrait is roughly :
1. Shoot in RAW and process in LR4.4
2. WB, exposure, tone curve (little bit of 'S')
3. Tweak skin tone a bit (drop orange and yellow); (I just find Sony AWB always too warm and too orange/yellow on tanned SE Asian skin; Canon worked the best for me for skin tones)
4. Export
5. Open in PS Elements 10.0
6. Touch up skin for blemishes (already too darn sharp with the 50/1.4 at f4 ) ; I shudder to think if it was adult skin.
7. Dodge and burn
8. Add vignette
9. Export smaller size for web


Hope that helps.
07-08-2014, 04:32 PM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Hope that helps.
Yes it does! It turns out we do mostly the same things. You just do it better than I do. What do you use to convert your raw files into something Lightroom 4 can read? Have you ever used the brushes in Lightroom? It has a few. I just started trying my hand at the dodge and burn brushes, and the saturation brush can come in handy too.

My biggest headache in post is colors. Foveon cameras are the hardest to get right, IMO, and Pentax is the easiest, but the only Canon I've used was a point-and-shoot years ago. The Sony falls somewhere between, which seems weird to me, since my Pentax also uses a Sony sensor. I'm usually changing around individual channels, especially orange and yellow.

Anyways, I took the A7r to one of our Independence Day festivals this past weekend. These are with the Sigma Super Wide II.



I finally put this camera on a tripod for the first time, something I should be doing more often.



Lit by streetlights and explosions, I really couldn't fix their orange skin.




Last edited by scratchpaddy; 07-08-2014 at 04:37 PM.
07-09-2014, 09:05 AM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Hin, thanks.

The portrait is roughly :
1. Shoot in RAW and process in LR4.4
2. WB, exposure, tone curve (little bit of 'S')
3. Tweak skin tone a bit (drop orange and yellow); (I just find Sony AWB always too warm and too orange/yellow on tanned SE Asian skin; Canon worked the best for me for skin tones)
4. Export
5. Open in PS Elements 10.0
6. Touch up skin for blemishes (already too darn sharp with the 50/1.4 at f4 ) ; I shudder to think if it was adult skin.
7. Dodge and burn
8. Add vignette
9. Export smaller size for web


Hope that helps.
Thank you so much for the help. I use the most current 5.5 version of LR. I shoot raw but I find the default raw conversion on LR to involve quite a bit of work. And I usually have to tune on clarity, tone cure on light, highlight and shadow to get the visual pop. I have the most issue on color especially on the warmer tone at night pictures. Here is a sample that is not adjusted well for the warmer tone at night


DSC07771

If I have to adjust the Orange and Yellow warm tone, which should I focus on as there are three areas on the per channel adjustment
  • Hue
  • Saturation
  • Luminance

I tried all of them but I can't seem to have a handle on the correction.


QuoteOriginally posted by scratchpaddy Quote
My biggest headache in post is colors. Foveon cameras are the hardest to get right, IMO, and Pentax is the easiest, but the only Canon I've used was a point-and-shoot years ago. The Sony falls somewhere between, which seems weird to me, since my Pentax also uses a Sony sensor. I'm usually changing around individual channels, especially orange and yellow.
I share the same headache on post processing on color from Sony raw files as you have mentioned.

And I have the Sigma super-wide 24mm f/2.8 as well. I have three versions -- the Pentax K-mount version with A setting, Minolta version with AF and the recent bonus of C/Y first version of Sigma on a Contax body purchase. I need to trim one or two of the 24mm, can't decide which one to keep. The AF on the minolta version works well in AF though a bit loud but I like the MF one for smaller size and without the need of LA-EA adapter.


DSC07662

Cheers,
Hin


Last edited by hinman; 07-09-2014 at 11:02 AM.
07-09-2014, 05:12 PM - 1 Like   #680
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
And I have the Sigma super-wide 24mm f/2.8 as well. I have three versions -- the Pentax K-mount version with A setting, Minolta version with AF and the recent bonus of C/Y first version of Sigma on a Contax body purchase. I need to trim one or two of the 24mm, can't decide which one to keep. The AF on the minolta version works well in AF though a bit loud but I like the MF one for smaller size and without the need of LA-EA adapter.
Woah! I've never seen an original Super-Wide. I've only ever found information on the Mk. II version, and I was beginning to wonder if a non-II Super-Wide existed at all. I like mine. It's got unusually nice bokeh for a superwide. The colors aren't that nice, though. They tend toward dull and greenish, with overall low contrast. I used to think that people talking about colors from certain lenses was silly, since it's all adjustable in post, but where you start has a huge impact on how hard it is to get a good result. That's why I still have my eye on the Takumar 24mm. Takumar colors are always wonderful.

But I should just stick to the Sigma. There's always one more lens that will make everything better. I had a little fun with it last night at the dog park.





If I were you, I'd keep the K-mount manual focus version. I don't like autofocus on a lens this wide.

QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
If I have to adjust the Orange and Yellow warm tone, which should I focus on as there are three areas on the per channel adjustment
Hue
Saturation
Luminance

I tried all of them but I can't seem to have a handle on the correction.
I wouldn't bother too much with streetlights; they're pretty much impossible to get a 'natural' look from. Some frequencies of light are completely missing from streetlamps. Just leave the yellow in, the way your eyes saw it.

Whenever I crank up saturation, I tend to turn down the yellow (and sometimes orange) saturation channel about half as much as the overall saturation increase. Otherwise, skin and grass starts taking on a sick-looking glow. If the scene looks pretty good except for greenish skin or purplish sky, use the hue slider on those colors. Foveon sensors have a mad tendency to make the sky purple, and I've noticed the Sony doing the same thing with certain lenses.

I haven't found much use for the luminance slider. You can get a washed-out look if you crank up certain colors, but that's all I've done with it.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, though. I'm certainly no expert, and half the time, I'm doing it wrong.
07-09-2014, 07:00 PM - 1 Like   #681
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QuoteOriginally posted by scratchpaddy Quote
Yes it does! It turns out we do mostly the same things. You just do it better than I do. What do you use to convert your raw files into something Lightroom 4 can read? Have you ever used the brushes in Lightroom? It has a few. I just started trying my hand at the dodge and burn brushes, and the saturation brush can come in handy too.

My biggest headache in post is colors. Foveon cameras are the hardest to get right, IMO, and Pentax is the easiest, but the only Canon I've used was a point-and-shoot years ago. The Sony falls somewhere between, which seems weird to me, since my Pentax also uses a Sony sensor. I'm usually changing around individual channels, especially orange and yellow.
urth-of-July-2014/i-p9jWXfs/0/O/2014-7r%20285-O.jpg"][/URL]
I need to convert them with the free adobe DNG converter first.

For brushes, yes, I started using them once I got hold of LR4.
Makes a big difference and often I just use it instead of going HDR or exposure blending if a single frame does not have clipped highlights.

To me,
Canon got the best skin tones (not correct, but pleasing); (it was a 5D, so it may be different on another model)
Pentax I prefer for everything else other than skin tones.
Sony, too yellow (and still struggling at this point to get consistently get correct)


QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Thank you so much for the help. I use the most current 5.5 version of LR. I shoot raw but I find the default raw conversion on LR to involve quite a bit of work. And I usually have to tune on clarity, tone cure on light, highlight and shadow to get the visual pop. I have the most issue on color especially on the warmer tone at night pictures. Here is a sample that is not adjusted well for the warmer tone at night


DSC07771

If I have to adjust the Orange and Yellow warm tone, which should I focus on as there are three areas on the per channel adjustment
  • Hue
  • Saturation
  • Luminance

I tried all of them but I can't seem to have a handle on the correction.

Try to play with the white balance first, then exposure.
You will be surprised how overall WB and exposure will change the look of different colors.
But in some situations, there will be too much mixed lighting in which case, I will just correct for the thing I want or use a brush with the WB adjusted (or layer in PS if the shot is important enough to warrant it)

The settings you mention to get more punch, I would save it as a preset (often a more conservative 'middle' setting)
I'd load that preset as default when loading in the new files.
If they look right, thats it.
If they look wrong or can be better, I revert to original settings and/or tweak from there.
07-10-2014, 02:31 PM - 1 Like   #682
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
To me,
Canon got the best skin tones (not correct, but pleasing); (it was a 5D, so it may be different on another model)
Pentax I prefer for everything else other than skin tones.
Sony, too yellow (and still struggling at this point to get consistently get correct)
I'm surprised - I would have thought Sony would have optimised their skin tones to suit Asians (assuming they did any optimisation, which I doubt). Perhaps they optimise it for very fair skinned Japanese rather than for Harajuku girls with fake tans.

I don't have any issues with Sony rendering my skin tone (and I am not fair, not with all the cycling I do) - here's a picture of me taken on the A7r and Zeiss Biogon 25mm:


I think the differences between (say) Pentax and Sony are manufacturer presets. Someone told me you can force Adobe to process images using presets meant for another camera. For example, use the Canon preset on Sony, and I have been told it results in a more "Canon" like rendering.

Maybe that's something you can play with?

PS - sorry for not posting. As many of you know, I am retired, but recently I have taken on a short term consulting assignment and I've been rather busy. Haven't even taken any pictures on the new A6000 yet.

07-11-2014, 11:37 AM   #683
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Here is a quick jpeg snapshot I took yesterday of my grandaughter with my A7r and 35mm F2.8 FE Zeiss @F5.6. The sharpness of the combo is amazing .


https://www.flickr.com/photos/21376375@N04/14623459285/



Last edited by jogiba; 07-11-2014 at 11:45 AM.
07-11-2014, 07:50 PM   #684
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those zeiss lenses look like they are both turning out nice pics.

wish that could afford to get one!
07-13-2014, 08:21 PM   #685
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DSC07914
Shot with S-M-C Takumar 50mm f/4.0 macro



DSC07958
Shot with S-M-C Takumar 50mm f/4.0 macro



Dancing Horse



DSC08036
Shot with Super-Takumar 50mm f/1.4 8-element

Cheers,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 07-14-2014 at 09:27 PM.
07-15-2014, 10:13 PM - 1 Like   #686
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DSC08170



DSC08142



DSC08163



DSC08141


Some wild flowers shots in my neighbor's garden. They are shot with Super-Takumar 50mm f/1.4 8-element in f/1.4 and f/2.0.

Last edited by hinman; 07-15-2014 at 10:24 PM.
07-15-2014, 11:11 PM - 1 Like   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
I have the most issue on color especially on the warmer tone at night pictures. Here is a sample that is not adjusted well for the warmer tone at night


DSC07771

If I have to adjust the Orange and Yellow warm tone, which should I focus on as there are three areas on the per channel adjustment

Hue
Saturation
Luminance


I tried all of them but I can't seem to have a handle on the correction.
Is this the sort of thing you are looking for? If so I ran it through the Channel Mixer in Photoshop CS6.

Last edited by wildman; 07-25-2014 at 08:37 AM.
07-16-2014, 01:54 PM   #688
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Is this the sort of thing you are looking for? If so I ran it through the Channel Mixer in Photoshop CS6.
Thanks for helping me out with the edit. I corrected the warm tone problem in turning it into b&w instead. Still, I will revisit Pinholecam suggestion on getting the WB and Tint right before the color channel mix.

Thanks,
Hin
07-16-2014, 02:49 PM   #689
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Is this the sort of thing you are looking for? If so I ran it through the Channel Mixer in Photoshop CS6.
That is an interesting effect. I think I would prefer the warmer version, but the cooler one at bottom sure looks interesting
07-16-2014, 03:46 PM   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
That is an interesting effect. I think I would prefer the warmer version, but the cooler one at bottom sure looks interesting
Yea. The original may, in fact, be more "accurate" given the artificial light.
But perceptually we tend to remember night scenes as if taken under very low daylight - compare the broad "white" pedestrian stripe on the left. It's heavily cast towards the warm side which was more the way it probably looked to the naked eye but we quickly forget that and only remember it later as a pure white stripe.

Anyway it's a judgement call and when I do my my own night scenes I shift things to the cool side - seems clearer, cleaner and strangely more "natural" if not more technically accurate to my eye.

Are we processing for how it was or how we remember it?

Last edited by wildman; 07-16-2014 at 03:52 PM.
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