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12-17-2013, 04:14 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I mean, like I said, pentax will always have a special place in my heart. They are pretty good cameras for hobbyists and are a great way to pick up the basics of photography. I think the "honest" feel of their cameras really lends to this. But, imho, nikon/canon are better for those who want to do photography professionally. If anything, its that my passion for photography has led me to want to pursue it professionally and pentax isnt exactly industry standard.


I absolutely agree with you here about the beginning part. I think it shows that pentax could really be so much more and probably get more recognition if they modernized their lineup.
Do you own any glass? Is it nice glass? I really think that is where the conversation should start. If you are an experienced photographer (I don't want to judge you either way), there is no way that you will be satisfied with a D3200. If you are a beginner, then you might be.

I am going to treat you as though your are being honest in your posts and not trolling. I really think you need to stop focusing on camera bodies and think about glass. Your K20 was pretty decent in 2008, but it is passed up at this point by Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Canon and Nikon entry models. Every one of them has faster frame rates, better auto focus, actual video modes and better auto focus. That's just what happens with electronics. You can't really complain that a computer that you bought five years ago isn't performing up to today's specs. That doesn't mean you can't take good photos with an older camera. Lots of folks do. But you can get a lot more camera now for the same amount you paid for your K20 when you got it.

That said, I really think you need to focus on lenses. Those are what create your image and give it special rendering. The camera is just a light box you hang your lens on. Buying an entry level Nikon with a kit lens won't truly get you anywhere. I doubt a kit lens can even take advantage of 24 megapixel sensor.

12-17-2013, 04:28 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Do you own any glass? Is it nice glass? I really think that is where the conversation should start. If you are an experienced photographer (I don't want to judge you either way), there is no way that you will be satisfied with a D3200. If you are a beginner, then you might be.
I was wondering the same, Vincent. So I dug into his history and found this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/231780-thinking-abou...g-k30-k20.html and this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/230655-what...ns-my-k20.html

A K20d with mk1 kitlens and judging by his posts basic knowledge, selfsupport and understanding aren`t great either. Not trying to be rude here, just my observation.
12-17-2013, 05:25 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
It's also worth mentioning that the D3200 is probably better for taking vidoes that any camera in pentax's lineup, including the K3. Not saying that i am going to be getting the 3200 but it is impressive how much nikon has in an entry level camera. The d3200 has wi fi and hdmi, two things that with pentax you would have to pay over $1000 to get. Nikon had a camera with dual card slots with the D7000 whereas with pentax, we had to wait until 2013.
IMHO, Nikon has a nasty habit of crippling their entry level bodies. The D3200 doesn't have bracketing, wireless flash commander, pixel mapping and AF microadjust, just to name the obvious big ones.

Regards,
--Anders.
12-17-2013, 06:32 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
In 2010, I picked up my first camera, an IstDS. Not a breathtaking camera by any standards, but it was what got me into photography and made eventually switch my major to photography.
There's nothing wrong with the *istDS. In it's day, it was comparable with pretty much everything else but the top of the line cameras. Even today, it's quite capable of taking terrific photos in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. You also have to remember, you're talking about an 8 year old camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
User friendliness seems like its always been an issue with pentax cameras. A good example of this is the "custom image" and the image filters which are in completely different places. I've come a long way as a photographer since picking up my first camera and i feel like i need something that just helps me focus on my creative process rather than having to wade through difficult menus.
"Difficult menus?" Are you serious?

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I havent seen two many reviewers citing the interface as a plus. In fact, if anything usability has been one of the most common weaknesses of pentax cameras.
You must have been looking at some different reviews than I have read. The interface is usually cited as one of the strong points of Pentax. As someone with experience with both Canon & Nikon, I find the Pentax interface is markedly superior and more intuitive.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
The other problem is a more systemic one, of which Pentax is but one of a number of guilty parties: it just takes too long to find and access settings. For instance, changing the LCD color scheme takes 16 taps, and you'll have to read about 100 menu items before you figure out that LCD Display is in the first page of the section with a wrench icon.
That could indeed be tedious... if you spend hours changing your LCD color schemes.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
How the hell are you supposed to figure that out?
There's this thing that comes with your camera.. It's typically made of paper, and is in book-form. It's called a manual. Spend a couple of minutes with it sometime.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Just a little while back, I was at the lake trying to take some shots of a group of birds. I was trying to catch them in mid-flight/mid take-off but the autofocus on the camera was miles too slow. By the time it had locked on, my subjects were long gone.
I've gotten plenty of sharp bird-in-flight photos with my lowly K-x, (and before that, my K100D and *istDS) and a manual focus lens. It's the photographer, not the camera. Technique goes a long way.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I mean, like I said, pentax will always have a special place in my heart. They are pretty good cameras for hobbyists and are a great way to pick up the basics of photography. I think the "honest" feel of their cameras really lends to this. But, imho, nikon/canon are better for those who want to do photography professionally.
Yeah, that K-3 is a real "basic" piece of gear... ok for a kid or grandma, but no serious photographer would touch it with a 10 foot pole. I'm guessing you have never looked at some of the stunning images of all kinds produced by Pentax cameras here in the forum. Otherwise, you wouldn't have the stones to make such a ridiculous statement.

Considering you bought your first camera a scant 3 years ago, you're still a newbie. I've been at it for about 30. And a lot of guys here have been at it much longer than I. If it makes you happy, buy your Nikon. You may feel like a pro for a few days, but you'll find out soon enough that the name stamped on your camera doesn't make you one.


Last edited by GibbyTheMole; 12-17-2013 at 06:59 AM.
12-17-2013, 06:51 AM   #50
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neostyles, just buy the Nikon... don't try and justify it to us... we really don't want to know.
Just get it, is what you want... stop typing, go out and get it, spend some time with it and come back in a month or so and show us how much better as a photographer you are because of the new professional grade camera. Stop spending your time with toys cameras.

I am very curious of your results... based on your previous samples, I just know it will be stellar...
12-17-2013, 08:28 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaX 07 Quote
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.....
Otis can...it gave him heartburn, so you know it was sarcasm!



Regards!

BTW- I shot this a few minutes ago with a lowly Pentax K5...if I had used a Nikon it would have automatically removed that little branch across his handsome face. Some of us just like to suffer with inferior cameras....we can't help it, we are just a bunch of idiots.
Check with Otis to see if that was sarcasm?
12-17-2013, 09:41 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Otis can...it gave him heartburn, so you know it was sarcasm!



Regards!

BTW- I shot this a few minutes ago with a lowly Pentax K5...if I had used a Nikon it would have automatically removed that little branch across his handsome face. Some of us just like to suffer with inferior cameras....we can't help it, we are just a bunch of idiots.
Check with Otis to see if that was sarcasm?
That picture looks awful. Are you sure you took it with a K-5 or was it a flip phone camera?



12-17-2013, 01:12 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Pentax always seems like it has been behind the competition in terms of the basics. For example, it wasnt until 2010 when pentax had a camera with a proper live view mode was the K5 in 2010 where as nikon had this in 2007.
Didn't the K20D, from 2008, have live view mode? Or was that an "improper" implementation of live view?

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Re: user friendliness, a good example of this is the af switch on pentax cameras (the one in the front). I often swtich from af to manal focus in the middle of the shoot and often when moving the switch from manual focus to af, the af isn't always activated because the switch isn't "all the way" in the af position. Its just a hassle to have to fiddle with the switch when i press the shutter button half way down. I have to take my focus off the viewfiner and in doing so, i lose my composition.
While Nikon has an AF/MF switch on some lenses (so does Pentax, incidentally), there's no such switch at all on the D3200. The reason why Pentax designed their switch the way they did is they wanted to give the user the option to switch from MF to AF.C and AF.S. A switch with three selections may be a bit harder to move on the fly, but that's the tradeoff for having more options on the interface. And there really are more interface options on Pentax flagship cameras than on any of Nikon's APS-C cameras, except for the D300 series of cameras. Last August my sister, who's a professional book cover photographer, was in Yosemite on a trip. Her Nikon D7000 inexplicably reverted to auto select for the focus points. Since Nikon's menu system is too complex for her to change without the manual, and since, unlike, say, the Pentax K-5, there's no switch to change it on the camera's interface, she had to let the camera select autofocus points for the rest of her trip. Any notion you may have that Nikon's are better designed than Pentax's is not true. There is no perfect camera. You're going to run into interface issues with any camera. The simpler the interface controls, the more that has to be left to the menu system. The more controls on the interface, the more difficult it is to change them on the fly.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Image quality is something that pentax has always been reveared for it, but the D3200 also has significant better dynamic range.
Better dynamic range than what? The problem here is not that you want to switch to Nikon, but that you're trying to justify your switch with ill-informed reasons. No APS-C camera currently available has "significantly" better dynamic range than any other. The Pentax and Nikon APS-C DSLRs are a bit better than the Canon APS-C DSLRs. But they're not significantly better. You're images are not going to automatically become better because you shoot a Nikon. If you're comparing DSLRs with the same sensor size, the quality of the lens is going to play a much bigger part in image quality than the camera.

Nor is the Nikon D3200 going to dramatically improve your tracking autofocus capability. The Nikon D3200 is an entry level camera featuring only 11 focus points. Just like all of the pre-K3 Pentax cameras, it's not going to be able to compete with the higher class of Canon and Nikon cameras. Indeed, I seriously doubt the D3200's tracking autofocus would be significantly better than what you could get in the Pentax K-50 or K-5iis. If you're serious about photographing moving objects like birds, get a professional class of camera like the Canon 7D or the Nikon D300. And get professional caliber of lenses to go with it. And don't be surprised if even those cameras and lenses let you down. I was just talking to a local sports photographer who's having all kinds of trouble with her Canon 7D and her 70-200 f2.8 lens focusing on moving objects. Tracking AF is a very complex, technical capability requiring expensive cameras and lenses and skilled, experienced photographers.
12-17-2013, 01:53 PM   #54
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You know, I was out in the hills with my Jeep the other day and spotted a large hawk circling intently over something in the canyon below. I immediately slammed on my brakes and grabbed my K-01. Of course I still had the 31mm on it which certainly wasn't enough for this shot. So I jumped out of the Jeep and started rummaging around in the back until I found my A400mm. Ahh, just the thing for this shot. Rats, where's that tripod (I somehow have horrible luck handholding this thing). Finally found the tripod, hooked up the camera, attached the lens, spun around and set it up and looked up.

Where is that bird??

Darn this camera!! If I only had a Nikon this would have worked out a lot better.

12-17-2013, 01:59 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
You know, I was out in the hills with my Jeep the other day and spotted a large hawk circling intently over something in the canyon below. I immediately slammed on my brakes and grabbed my K-01. Of course I still had the 31mm on it which certainly wasn't enough for this shot. So I jumped out of the Jeep and started rummaging around in the back until I found my A400mm. Ahh, just the thing for this shot. Rats, where's that tripod (I somehow have horrible luck handholding this thing). Finally found the tripod, hooked up the camera, attached the lens, spun around and set it up and looked up.

Where is that bird??

Darn this camera!! If I only had a Nikon this would have worked out a lot better.

True story...
12-19-2013, 09:35 PM   #56
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I mean, my K20d doesn't expose properly. I think pentax could have gotten much more attention and been a bigger player in the camera market if they had just focused (no pun intendended) on the basics... light metering, autofocus, etc. LIke everyone who uses pentax, when I first got mine, I wonderred why they didnt have that reputation that other cameras have because they are pretty good. They feel great in your hand. I'll give them that. I remember when I took my istds (not weather sealed to my knowledge) on a school field and it actually got rained on a little bit and it still works fine to this day.

QuoteQuote:
You know, I was out in the hills with my Jeep the other day and spotted a large hawk circling intently over something in the canyon below. I immediately slammed on my brakes and grabbed my K-01. Of course I still had the 31mm on it which certainly wasn't enough for this shot. So I jumped out of the Jeep and started rummaging around in the back until I found my A400mm. Ahh, just the thing for this shot. Rats, where's that tripod (I somehow have horrible luck handholding this thing). Finally found the tripod, hooked up the camera, attached the lens, spun around and set it up and looked up.

Where is that bird??

Darn this camera!! If I only had a Nikon this would have worked out a lot better.
That doesn't really have much to do with af.

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastreg:
Better dynamic range than what? The problem here is not that you want to switch to Nikon, but that you're trying to justify your switch with ill-informed reasons. No APS-C camera currently available has "significantly" better dynamic range than any other. The Pentax and Nikon APS-C DSLRs are a bit better than the Canon APS-C DSLRs. But they're not significantly better. You're images are not going to automatically become better because you shoot a Nikon. If you're comparing DSLRs with the same sensor size, the quality of the lens is going to play a much bigger part in image quality than the camera.
Better than similarly priced pentax cameras. Even mid ranges ones. Again, I dont have any intention of getting the 3200. Only using it as an example to show how one of nikon's cheapest offerings outperforms much of pentax's lineup. Here is the D3200 vs the K-5

(from dpreview)

All APS-C sized sensors aren't the same. Nikon developes their own sensors and from what i can see, likewise with pentax. There are other factos too, like the image processing and I suspect pentax is also somewhat behind here as well.

QuoteQuote:
Didn't the K20D, from 2008, have live view mode? Or was that an "improper" implementation of live view?
I dont really use the live view on my k20. Its pretty "tacked on" compared to whats seen in other cameras. There is no af or info displayed. Its pretty bare bones. Pentax didnt seem to have given much thought to whether it was going to be practical, which i find is an issue with a lot of the features they have. Alot of the things they have like the the odd 5 second, do it yourself, soundless "movie" mode just seem like they are there so that pentax can claim an extra feature. Alot of these things simple seem like they were done without much thought as to how they would make the photographers life easier or give them more creative freedom.

QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole:
That could indeed be tedious... if you spend hours changing your LCD color schemes.
You're missing the point. It shouldn't be so complicated to do something simple.

QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole:
There's this thing that comes with your camera.. It's typically made of paper, and is in book-form. It's called a manual. Spend a couple of minutes with it sometime.
Like I said, you shouldn't need a manual to know how to peroform basic tasks. From what I can see, one of the chief problems with pentax menus is simply that it simplly takes too long to do things. Often, we would have to do things in class like change the white balance and people with nikons would be able do these kind of basic things in a snap but i was still buried in the menus while other people were shooting away. Take the back of the k20d. It is not immediately clear how to change things like white balance or iso, whereas with nikons it is obvious right off the bat. With nikon you don't have to read the manual to know how to do these things. The aforementioned 5 second movie mode actually further complicates things because its easy to get it mixed up with bursts shooting in the menu. Not to mention that there isn't exactly much to distinguish it. Now I havent used newer Pentax's such as the K30 or K3 but this is exactly what im talking about what when i say unintuitive.

I have lost many shots also because pentax's shutters tend to have a hell of "bang", so much that they actually shake the camera. Their DSLRs seem to be a nod back to their classic days of film cameras, where it was all about being built like a tank. In some ways this is a good thing. I mean, I can put my camera down on the ground when I can doing a shoot and not have to worry about it, but i think pentax could benefit from a little more.. well shall we say finesse. Ive played around nd with friends nikons and canon's in class and pentax has, by far, some of the most difficult to use controls. A great example of this is dial for af point adjustment on the K20 which is so awkward to use i frankly never bother with it.

Yes, as some have pointed out fewer controls means more menu options, but you can however make reasonable assumptions about things that users will need the most and make those more easily accessible. Plus, I find Pentax's on camera controls to just be harder to use than the competition.

QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole:
Considering you bought your first camera a scant 3 years ago, you're still a newbie. I've been at it for about 30. And a lot of guys here have been at it much longer than I. If it makes you happy, buy your Nikon. You may feel like a pro for a few days, but you'll find out soon enough that the name stamped on your camera doesn't make you one.
That still doesn't change the fact that pentax has yet to catch up to nikon/canon in many ways. It doesnt take 30 years of experience to see that a picture is not being properly exposed, or that pictures just seem so much more vibrant because of better dynamic range, or that in general a camera is just easier to use. Why do you think so few professionals use pentax? Yes, I have only been taking pictures for 3 years, but i ve been at it almost constantly.
12-19-2013, 11:56 PM   #57
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All your menu and ergonomic points are moot as they may apply to your K20, but Pentax has obviously learned a lot since then. The beauty of Pentax is you go into the menus to set up initially, after that there is very little need as most functions are very very easily accessed through the buttons. The more you pay the better this all gets.

The reason why Pentax is not more popular with pros is that they were late to the game with quality products. They still are. Bit in like for like they are more than competitive if not superior in what they do produce.
12-20-2013, 01:07 AM   #58
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Hmm, I can see why you were having trouble in your classes. If you are looking for the white balance controls in the menu system you obviously did not understand your tools.

But, as has been said already, you seem to be expecting to control your camera by using the menu system. If so than you will be happier with the Nikon entry level dSLR cameras because this is how they are controlled. Or perhaps you should look at the V1 or another similar high end point and shoot.

Interestingly though, not everyone wants Pentax to try and emulate Canon or Nikon. If that is the type of system we wanted, we would buy it. And some Pentaxians do own Nikon or Canon equipment. I bought a Nikon D600, used it for a little over a month and then sold it. I wasn't happy with the performance. I have owned Canon full frame cameras including the 1Ds MkII, very nice camera but way too heavy for my type of work. I have held onto the Canon 5d though because I consider it to be a true success.

But my Pentax cameras provide an entirely different experience, one that I find very useful. To start, their Limited lens line is very hard to beat, anywhere. The cameras themselves are fast and handy and can be relied on to work just about anywhere, in any weather.

I think you should move over and try out Nikon's equipment for awhile, you may actually like it. Lots of people do. But there are also a lot who don't. But you may want to hold onto a few of your Pentax lenses for awhile just in case it don't work out.
12-20-2013, 01:29 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I mean, my K20d doesn't expose properly..
Interestingly I don't encounter the problems you mention.

I guess we have different needs. You should probably get a Nikon.
12-20-2013, 01:36 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote

Better than similarly priced pentax cameras. Even mid ranges ones. Again, I dont have any intention of getting the 3200. Only using it as an example to show how one of nikon's cheapest offerings outperforms much of pentax's lineup. Here is the D3200 vs the K-5

(from dpreview)
This comparison is of D3200 with ADL on and K-5 with Highlight DR off.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote

All APS-C sized sensors aren't the same. Nikon developes their own sensors and from what i can see, likewise with pentax. There are other factos too, like the image processing and I suspect pentax is also somewhat behind here as well.
Yes they are. Only Canon makes their own unique sensors and they are not considered as good, although the differences aren't very significant for most applications.
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