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12-20-2013, 05:55 AM   #61
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I get along very well with my Pentax gear, while apparently you do not. You want the Nikon, get the Nikon. I wish you well.

12-20-2013, 07:13 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I mean, my K20d doesn't expose properly. I think pentax could have gotten much more attention and been a bigger player in the camera market if they had just focused (no pun intendended) on the basics... light metering, autofocus, etc. LIke everyone who uses pentax, when I first got mine, I wonderred why they didnt have that reputation that other cameras have because they are pretty good. They feel great in your hand. I'll give them that. I remember when I took my istds (not weather sealed to my knowledge) on a school field and it actually got rained on a little bit and it still works fine to this day.


That doesn't really have much to do with af.


Better than similarly priced pentax cameras. Even mid ranges ones. Again, I dont have any intention of getting the 3200. Only using it as an example to show how one of nikon's cheapest offerings outperforms much of pentax's lineup. Here is the D3200 vs the K-5

(from dpreview)

All APS-C sized sensors aren't the same. Nikon developes their own sensors and from what i can see, likewise with pentax. There are other factos too, like the image processing and I suspect pentax is also somewhat behind here as well.


I dont really use the live view on my k20. Its pretty "tacked on" compared to whats seen in other cameras. There is no af or info displayed. Its pretty bare bones. Pentax didnt seem to have given much thought to whether it was going to be practical, which i find is an issue with a lot of the features they have. Alot of the things they have like the the odd 5 second, do it yourself, soundless "movie" mode just seem like they are there so that pentax can claim an extra feature. Alot of these things simple seem like they were done without much thought as to how they would make the photographers life easier or give them more creative freedom.


You're missing the point. It shouldn't be so complicated to do something simple.


Like I said, you shouldn't need a manual to know how to peroform basic tasks. From what I can see, one of the chief problems with pentax menus is simply that it simplly takes too long to do things. Often, we would have to do things in class like change the white balance and people with nikons would be able do these kind of basic things in a snap but i was still buried in the menus while other people were shooting away. Take the back of the k20d. It is not immediately clear how to change things like white balance or iso, whereas with nikons it is obvious right off the bat. With nikon you don't have to read the manual to know how to do these things. The aforementioned 5 second movie mode actually further complicates things because its easy to get it mixed up with bursts shooting in the menu. Not to mention that there isn't exactly much to distinguish it. Now I havent used newer Pentax's such as the K30 or K3 but this is exactly what im talking about what when i say unintuitive.

I have lost many shots also because pentax's shutters tend to have a hell of "bang", so much that they actually shake the camera. Their DSLRs seem to be a nod back to their classic days of film cameras, where it was all about being built like a tank. In some ways this is a good thing. I mean, I can put my camera down on the ground when I can doing a shoot and not have to worry about it, but i think pentax could benefit from a little more.. well shall we say finesse. Ive played around nd with friends nikons and canon's in class and pentax has, by far, some of the most difficult to use controls. A great example of this is dial for af point adjustment on the K20 which is so awkward to use i frankly never bother with it.

Yes, as some have pointed out fewer controls means more menu options, but you can however make reasonable assumptions about things that users will need the most and make those more easily accessible. Plus, I find Pentax's on camera controls to just be harder to use than the competition.


That still doesn't change the fact that pentax has yet to catch up to nikon/canon in many ways. It doesnt take 30 years of experience to see that a picture is not being properly exposed, or that pictures just seem so much more vibrant because of better dynamic range, or that in general a camera is just easier to use. Why do you think so few professionals use pentax? Yes, I have only been taking pictures for 3 years, but i ve been at it almost constantly.
Nikon doesn't make its own sensors (for the most part), nor does Pentax. Most of their APS-C sensors are made by either Sony or Toshiba. The problem with the D3200 sensor is that it is prone to banding at high iso, which actually limits its output and recoverable shadow detail a lot more than either the K3 or K50 sensors. That said, the dynamic range at base iso of the K5/K5 II beats any other APS-C camera out there and makes it ideal for landscape photography.

You keep flogging the weaknesses of the K20 and I understand that you are frustrated with it. However, most of its weaknesses have been addressed in cameras that are a little more modern. Even the K7 is easier to use (although its sensor does lag significantly behind current sensor tech).

As to why "professionals" use or don't use a particular camera, it is hard to say. Perhaps it is available glass (I still question what glass you own) or, a desire to upgrade to full frame in the future. It certainly isn't for menu problems. Honestly, my brother owns a D7000 and it isn't particularly different or easier with regard to menus. Auto focus is the same between a K5 II and the D7000, except with regard to tracking, where the D7000 is better.

If you want to stay with Pentax (I don't think you do), then you should get a camera like the K5 II and learn to use it. The shutters are as soft as any out there -- certainly better than any other APS_C camera. You also should invest in some lenses that fit your needs. Clearly your current gear isn't satisfying what you want to do.

Last edited by Rondec; 12-20-2013 at 07:21 AM.
12-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #63
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Ahh, he is just having fun stirring the pot. He doesn't really care a whit about either Pentax or Nikon. Kinda reminds me of my grandson. As long as someone tries to argue with him he keeps stirring.
12-20-2013, 08:00 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Looking at the back of the D7100, its immediately clear how to do common things like change the white balance or iso.
The irony there is you don't need the WB button on the Nikon, it just works. You need it on the Pentax. I've gone from Minolta/Sony to M43, to Pentax to Nikon and now a bit of Fuji gear. IMO the interface on the Pentax's is much easier to deal with than the Prosumer Nikons. That said, even a 5 year old D3000 with the CAM-1000 will eat anything Pentax has for continuous focus tracking. On a good day I get about 7 out of 10 shots with my K-30, the the D3000 I get 95+ out of 100.

There is no perfect system though, Nikon's weather sealing isn't that great, they pretty much have no warranty to back it. They don't have cool lenses like the pancake 40mm. The IQ on the D3200 is nothing to be messed with, but the body is crippled at the software level as far as customizations and quick access go. D7100 or D7000 are probably better choices for someone coming from a Pentax. Check out the 24-85, its a dog on an FX body but it sings on a DX and is weather sealed.

12-20-2013, 08:59 PM   #65
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Who changes white balance anyway? I set to auto and worry about that in post.
12-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
The D7100 and the K5ii are somewhat in the same price point and the D7100 still pulls ahead in some areas
Right, some areas. So decide which areas are important to you; as I said before in this thread, a camera is a tool so get the one that gets the job done.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Another example.. Looking at the back of the D7100, its immediately clear how to do common things like change the white balance or iso.
And how unusable the ISO button is placed if you want to changing the ISO without taking your eye of the view finder. No improvement over the K20D that is about as useless in that area using the OK button. A K5 has a far better positioning of the ISO button as do Canon entry level cameras (if I'm not mistaken).

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I dont want to turn this into pentex vs nikon, its just at the moment it seems like nikon offers more performance
Right, go and get the right tool for the job.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Ahh, he is just having fun stirring the pot. He doesn't really care a whit about either Pentax or Nikon. Kinda reminds me of my grandson. As long as someone tries to argue with him he keeps stirring.
12-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by sterretje Quote
And how unusable the ISO button is placed if you want to changing the ISO without taking your eye of the view finder. No improvement over the K20D that is about as useless in that area using the OK button
Actually, I have no issues w/ the K20D's ISO changing.
Put a pair of gloves on and use your cameras. The OK button is where your thumb naturally rests and you can feel it through your gloves. That's how Pentax designed theirs since they're targeting the landscape market.

I found it funny that the OP posted a comparison of the D3200 in ADL mode vs. the K20D w/o dynamic range enabled

And doubly amusing that all the OP's complaints have been fixed with the K-3 and previous versions....WB fixed, exposure fixed, etc.

p.s., pros use Canikon/Sony for a lot of reasons IMHO: sponsorships (e.g., MJS is sponsored by Sony and he's a famous fashion photographer in Chicago), the FF option, real tethering that works well, pro service options, and fast long telephotos.
The cost of course, is that their systems are generally more expensive because they have to pass the costs down to the buyers. And pros will actually rent MF setups for pro jobs, so they don't necessarily use Canikon all the time...

12-22-2013, 12:47 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Actually, I have no issues w/ the K20D's ISO changing.
Using the OK button? My thumb is probably too big as I keep on pressing the 4-way controller and reaching the front dial is also awkward in that case. No issue with e.g. eV compensation. My reference is a K10D, by the way.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I found it funny that the OP posted a comparison of the D3200 in ADL mode vs. the K20D w/o dynamic range enabled
I think OP compared it with the K5, but I noticed that as well (and there was a comment earlier on regarding that). Looking up what ADL is, I ended at Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! . Interesting reads and my interpretation of the results is that the only Nikon (from D3200, D5200, D7100) that actually really beats the K5 in that area is the D5200 if one takes noise levels into account.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
And doubly amusing that all the OP's complaints have been fixed with the K-3 and previous versions....WB fixed, exposure fixed, etc.
I think OP is actually looking for a camera with mindread.exe installed
12-22-2013, 02:14 AM   #69
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QuoteQuote:
And doubly amusing that all the OP's complaints have been fixed with the K-3 and previous versions....WB fixed, exposure fixed, etc.
Point is that nikon has options with the same features/level of performance for much less. Plus, Pentax has yet to modernize their shutter/focusing system. All those w/ nikon/canon are almost silent. You can barely feel them, whereas with pentax it still feels like they are using 90s technology. As I mentioned before, whenever, i take a picture with my k20d, it actually shakes the camera a little bit.

QuoteQuote:
I think OP compared it with the K5, but I noticed that as well (and there was a comment earlier on regarding that). Looking up what ADL is, I ended at Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! . Interesting reads and my interpretation of the results is that the only Nikon (from D3200, D5200, D7100) that actually really beats the K5 in that area is the D5200 if one takes noise levels into account.
The dynamic range expansion on pentax cameras is hardly comparible to active d lighting. I have to often really struggle to see the difference between a photo with the featuetre turned off and on, where as the difference active d lighting makes is very obvious. The D3200 still beats the K5


Last edited by neostyles; 12-22-2013 at 02:23 AM.
12-22-2013, 04:29 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Point is that nikon has options with the same features/level of performance for much less. Plus, Pentax has yet to modernize their shutter/focusing system. All those w/ nikon/canon are almost silent. You can barely feel them, whereas with pentax it still feels like they are using 90s technology. As I mentioned before, whenever, i take a picture with my k20d, it actually shakes the camera a little bit.


The dynamic range expansion on pentax cameras is hardly comparible to active d lighting. I have to often really struggle to see the difference between a photo with the featuetre turned off and on, where as the difference active d lighting makes is very obvious. The D3200 still beats the K5
I don't believe you have used a recent vintage Pentax. K30/50 shutters aren't super quiet, but they certainly are as quiet as those in a D5200. K5/K5 II/K3 shutters are quieter than anything Nikon or Canon currently offers.

I think it is interesting, that while you rant on Pentax for not offering wifi in cameras, you don't mention that the D7100 -- the camera you would normally compare to a K3/K5 II (except that it costs more than either of those) -- does not include wifi at all. What a rip off! I can't believe that Nikon would offer a flagship camera for over a thousand dollars without such a feature! And have you heard the noisy shutters in the 6D/D800/D600? I really think the only camera for you is the D5200, because it clearly offers the best "value" out there.
12-22-2013, 04:47 AM   #71
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Please buy that nikon and enjoy shooting it.
12-22-2013, 05:18 AM - 3 Likes   #72
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Dont Make Me Stop This Car!!!

Guys, Guys, quit it. Stop now! You know those signs at the zoo that warn "Don't feed the animals"?
The reason this thread is so long is that we (and yes, I'm as guilty as anyone) believed he wanted a serious answer.
Wrong. There's a word that starts with 'T' and ends with double hockey sticks. Know the word?
Good.
He's 'T'-ing. Rattling our cage. Pulling our chain. Playing us. This is an online debating class for no credits.
Pointless. Maybe less.
The OP doesn't care about Nikon vs Pentax, he likes to stir the pot, sit back and chuckle. The examples and comparisons prove it, raging on about a 4-year-old Pentax vs a new Nikon, invalid specs, wrong-headed quotes, backwards rumours and ill-informed hearsay.
It's a juvenile exercise about riling up the oldsters (anyone over 20 or so) and getting a laugh, showing off, being a smart___.
About as useful as another juvenile exercise which shall not be named, but is rumoured to cause blindness.
Fun for one, frustrating and aggravating for everyone else.
Don't feed the animals.
I've asked the Mods to close this thread and they won't.
But, you can.
Shhhhhh....
12-22-2013, 07:54 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Plus, Pentax has yet to modernize their shutter/focusing system. All those w/ nikon/canon are almost silent. You can barely feel them, whereas with pentax it still feels like they are using 90s technology. As I mentioned before, whenever, i take a picture with my k20d, it actually shakes the camera a little bit.
You obviously haven't compared a K5 with your K20D; I don't say it's better than the Nikon, I simply don't know (my K5 is silent compared to my K10D). So I suggest that you stop hammering on that (and the user interface) till you have first hand experience.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
The D3200 still beats the K5
Hmm, maybe check Nikon D3200 versus Pentax K5 versus Nikon D7000 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark ; I've selected the D7000 as it's a comparable camera to the K5 (age and level) and the D3200 as you refer to that; the K5 beats both when it comes to DR.
Or do some reading on imaging-resources; it might be a revelation

PS
Still wondering why people can take beautiful pictures with a K100D. All parameters (dynamic range, user interface) that you seem to care about are are lightyears behind

PPS
I've said it before, get the tool that gets the job done.
12-22-2013, 03:09 PM   #74
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Im looking at a d7000. It eats the K20 alive and i have little doubt it also beats the k5 (given that even the d3200 beat the k5 for dynamic range.) It's movie mode puts the k5s to shame.


I mean just look at this
K5 bounce flash overexposure - mystery solved! MUST READ!: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

It just shows how much fiddling around with the camera is neccesary to just get it to do what you want. Im not looking for a camera that has "mindread.exe" installed. Im looking for something that just works.

There are also cheaper lenses
You missed a couple: Nikon DX SLR (D40-D90, D3000-D7100) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

also the K30 af

The problem with pentax af systems with regard to video is that they are so loud that that they can be heard on the video. This is a problem that may have only been fixed with the K3. When it comes down to it, I really decided to switch because i want a camera that helps you focus on getting great shots, not on one where you have to focus on just getting the camera to do what it is supposed to do. It seems like the K3 is the only camera in pentax's lineup that doesn't have any compromises. As this review shows http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K5/K5VIDEO.HTMhttp://www.imaging-resou...K5/K5VIDEO.HTM mentions, the K5s video is still kind of a dated. Plus, speaking off buffer size, the D7000 can capture 100 images. While it seems the K5 is limited to a measly 22.

My allegiance isn't towards a brand. It is to whatever helps me do what i love best. I stuck by pentax but now I realize that nikon is simply better for me.

Last edited by neostyles; 12-22-2013 at 03:18 PM.
12-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #75
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You've had your say. Thank you for making us aware that the newest technology D7100 beats the nearly 6 year old K20D. I'm sure that no one here would have guessed that. Good luck with your new system.

CLOSED

Last edited by Parallax; 12-23-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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