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jogiba · 12-23-2013, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Miguel

Joe, you seem to be omitting the weight of $2300 vs. $360. That's a lot of shekels.

M

The new 20MP Sony A3000 is $279 with free one day shipping at Amazon with 18-55mm OSS lens and is about the same size as the SL1 but much lower in price.
Amazon.com: Sony A3000 Interchangeable Lens Digital 20.1MP Camera with 18-55mm Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo

**Miguel** · 12-23-2013, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

The only argument for the SL1 is that it is small for a camera that includes an optical VF

Nonsense. The argument is that you have cheap access to a platform that has many more lens choices (Canon and third-party) than both Panasonic and Pentax combined. Another argument is that you can use M42 lenses and Pentax M and K lenses with adapters- to me M42 lenses on EOS cropped-sensor cameras are a better experience than on Pentax. Another argument is that the flash system is better. You can also use the Tokina versions of Pentax DA and DALtd and DA* lenses for about half the price.

M

ScooterMaxi Jim · 12-23-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Miguel

Nonsense. The argument is that you have cheap access to a platform that has many more lens choices (Canon and third-party) than both Panasonic and Pentax combined. Another argument is that you can use M42 lenses and Pentax M and K lenses with adapters- to me M42 lenses on EOS cropped-sensor cameras are a better experience than on Pentax. Another argument is that the flash system is better. You can also use the Tokina versions of Pentax DA and DALtd and DA* lenses for about half the price.

M

You haven't noticed the problem with Tokina coatings? I shoot some Canon, and I have a pretty good idea of where the brand falls down. It doesn't compete with micro 4/3rds - the market has spoken on that. Read up on adapters - even the expensive ones compromise image quality significantly. Read up on the capabilities of cropped sensors - Canon keeps falling further behind. For the OP just now getting into the market as a back-up camera, the choices in 4/3rds lenses are plenty good enough, and expanding fairly quickly.

Your rant doesn't really help the OP make an informed decision.

causey · 12-23-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

Your rant doesn't really help the OP make an informed decision.

Not necessarily trying to make any decision. Just suggesting that a SL1 Pentax equivalent would be a good idea.

causey · 12-23-2013, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

The new 20MP Sony A3000 is $279 with free one day shipping at Amazon with 18-55mm OSS lens and is about the same size as the SL1 but much lower in price.
Amazon.com: Sony A3000 Interchangeable Lens Digital 20.1MP Camera with 18-55mm Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo

Great sensor in a not-so-good body, with an almost unusable EVF and a low-grade LCD screen.

Pepe Le Pew · 12-23-2013, 07:02 PM

The best recent entry-level DSLRs for less than $650

Well it does beat the T4i.........

**rbefly** · 12-23-2013, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by causey

Canon SL 1 -- a bad idea?

Yes, Stefan, I'm afraid it is, and I'm 100% against it.
One of the many differences between Pentax and the rest of the DSLR- APS-C pack is the metal chassis. We (Pentaxians) are so used to it that we've taken it for granted, as in 'Why? Doesn't everyone use metal for their camera chassis?" Uh...no, many don't.
But virtually every reviewer, those who know that it's rare and becoming more rare, especially in lower-priced models, does remark about it, and in a somewhat reverant way.
"It just feels solid" "Has a nice heft to the body" "It's durable, well built" "Along with the W/R, the body construction inspires confidence" and so on.
Your suggestion is to give that up, willingly, to become another cheezy Canon clone, for the sake of a few ounces?
But you've said you don't mind plastic bodies. Good, Canon and Nikon offer several in the low-priced DSLR-crop bodies. I'd much rather see a few Pentax users become 2-brand owners or even jump ship, (sorry, but bye, bye) than give up one of the greatest assets we have. That's not a choice I'd waste 2 seconds on.
While we're at it, let's shave a couple ounces and dollars and ditch the pentaprism! A pentamirror's good enough. W/R? All those gaskets cost money, weigh an ounce or two, ditch' em too! Two control wheels? Nah! One's plenty! Hey, every few grams count, every nickel saved means a lower price point.
Pentax can't be everything to everyone and I hope they never are. Buy the lightweight plastic Canon and a couple of 3rd party zooms, be happy.
But don't try to drag a great, quality camera maker with you into cheese-puff land.
JMO,
Ron

causey · 12-23-2013, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by rbefly

Yes, Stefan, I'm afraid it is, and I'm 100% against it.
One of the many differences between Pentax and the rest of the DSLR- APS-C pack is the metal chassis. We (Pentaxians) are so used to it that we've taken it for granted, as in 'Why? Doesn't everyone use metal for their camera chassis?" Uh...no, many don't.
But virtually every reviewer, those who know that it's rare and becoming more rare, especially in lower-priced models, does remark about it, and in a somewhat reverant way.
"It just feels solid" "Has a nice heft to the body" "It's durable, well built" "Along with the W/R, the body construction inspires confidence" and so on.
Your suggestion is to give that up, willingly, to become another cheezy Canon clone, for the sake of a few ounces?

But don't try to drag a great, quality camera maker with you into cheese-puff land.
JMO,
Ron

Ron, I'm pretty sure neither my words nor this thread is going to drag the quality of Pentax cameras down. Moreover, I wasn't suggesting Pentax should discard metal chassis altogether. I suppose Pentax could make a very light no-frills DSLR travel camera in addition to its excellent, robust, metal-based DSLR's. Who knows? An El Cheapo K-y might attract new buyers, too.

The K-01 was a failure, IMO. Sturdy, but heavy, and without any kind of viewfinder. Many people ended up embracing it, because Pentax had to sell it at heavily discounted prices--and because it had the K mount. I bet Canon didn't invest into SL1's production as much money as Pentax spent with the K-01, and SL1's discount price is similar to the lowest prices of K-01. Canon simply re-packaged old technology in a simplistic body, which does appeal to many people for very simple reasons: SL1 is small and light. Sure, often re-packaging and simplifying are marketing tricks, but sometimes they can turn out to be useful from a consumer's viewpoint.

I love my K-30, and I wouldn't exchange it for any SL1 or mirrorless camera. It's just that I'd like to have a very light Pentax as a second body. And I don't think I'm the only one to want this.

Pepe Le Pew · 12-23-2013, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by causey

I bet Canon didn't invest into SL1's production as much money as Pentax spent with the K-01

Not to sure about that.........But see those amazing kids playing soccer commercial for the SL1 yet? They spend way to much money on Advertising such rubbish

Stats don't lie.............;)

causey · 12-23-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Pepe Le Pew

Not to sure about that.........But see those amazing kids playing soccer commercial for the SL1 yet? They spend way to much money on Advertising such rubbish

Stats don't lie.............;)

Next to zero R&D costs...
Way too much, in relation to what? Profits--as in "Pentax paid Marc Newson much too much"? Or you mean, from a moral point of view?

Again, my point is by no means that SL 1 is better than Pentax cameras, nor that Pentax should produce plasticky dslrs.

Pepe Le Pew · 12-23-2013, 08:01 PM

Moral point of view

tromboads · 12-23-2013, 08:05 PM

wait we are doing this all wrong. You want a light Pentax body?

Just get a Program A / Me Super / MZ

Pepe Le Pew · 12-23-2013, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by tromboads

wait we are doing this all wrong. You want a light Pentax body?

Just get a Program A / Me Super / MZ

Exactly

Fogel70 · 12-24-2013, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by causey

K-x: 580 grams
SL 1: 407 grams

Subjective, of course, but I find the 170 grams difference significant relative to total weight.
But I did refer to K-x when saying I was expecting a lighter K-x2...

For Pentax to make as light camera as SL1 they have to remove SR (which probably add 100-150 g).
But having stabilisation in the body instead of in the lenses make many lenses lighter and smaller.
So the complete Pentax kit will not weight much more. FI Canon 55-250 IS lens is about 150g more than Pentax DAL 50-200mm lens.

Then there is stuff like pentaprism, built in AF motor..., that add weight on Pentax present entry level DSLR.
Pentax would have to cripple their cameras alot to make them lightweight.

tromboads · 12-24-2013, 01:00 AM

I confess to getting the Z-10. sorry PZ-10 out..

I didn't realize they had a spot meter.

BRILLIANT!

Not only does it have a "green button", using it in manual mode, well it acts like AV mode. AND with an auto-film rewind! MENTAL!!

Rechargeable li-ion battery + charger on the way.

Sh1t I can throw some Delta1000 in there, set my depth of field as I wish, and green button away

It even has EV lock.

I'm not sure what else I'd really need?

Oh. It looks proper "Merican Psyco bad-ass with a 28mm on the front.

Ricoh GR. Move OVER!

12-23-2013, 07:53 PM	#25
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757 Original Poster	Originally posted by Pepe Le Pew Not to sure about that.........But see those amazing kids playing soccer commercial for the SL1 yet? They spend way to much money on Advertising such rubbish Stats don't lie.............;) Next to zero R&D costs... Way too much, in relation to what? Profits--as in "Pentax paid Marc Newson much too much"? Or you mean, from a moral point of view? Again, my point is by no means that SL 1 is better than Pentax cameras, nor that Pentax should produce plasticky dslrs. Last edited by causey; 12-23-2013 at 08:01 PM.

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12-23-2013, 05:25 PM	#16
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by Miguel Joe, you seem to be omitting the weight of $2300 vs. $360. That's a lot of shekels. M The new 20MP Sony A3000 is $279 with free one day shipping at Amazon with 18-55mm OSS lens and is about the same size as the SL1 but much lower in price. Amazon.com: Sony A3000 Interchangeable Lens Digital 20.1MP Camera with 18-55mm Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo

12-23-2013, 05:26 PM	#17
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim The only argument for the SL1 is that it is small for a camera that includes an optical VF Nonsense. The argument is that you have cheap access to a platform that has many more lens choices (Canon and third-party) than both Panasonic and Pentax combined. Another argument is that you can use M42 lenses and Pentax M and K lenses with adapters- to me M42 lenses on EOS cropped-sensor cameras are a better experience than on Pentax. Another argument is that the flash system is better. You can also use the Tokina versions of Pentax DA and DALtd and DA* lenses for about half the price. M

12-23-2013, 05:41 PM	#18
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Originally posted by Miguel Nonsense. The argument is that you have cheap access to a platform that has many more lens choices (Canon and third-party) than both Panasonic and Pentax combined. Another argument is that you can use M42 lenses and Pentax M and K lenses with adapters- to me M42 lenses on EOS cropped-sensor cameras are a better experience than on Pentax. Another argument is that the flash system is better. You can also use the Tokina versions of Pentax DA and DALtd and DA* lenses for about half the price. M You haven't noticed the problem with Tokina coatings? I shoot some Canon, and I have a pretty good idea of where the brand falls down. It doesn't compete with micro 4/3rds - the market has spoken on that. Read up on adapters - even the expensive ones compromise image quality significantly. Read up on the capabilities of cropped sensors - Canon keeps falling further behind. For the OP just now getting into the market as a back-up camera, the choices in 4/3rds lenses are plenty good enough, and expanding fairly quickly. Your rant doesn't really help the OP make an informed decision.

12-23-2013, 06:12 PM	#19
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757 Original Poster	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Your rant doesn't really help the OP make an informed decision. Not necessarily trying to make any decision. Just suggesting that a SL1 Pentax equivalent would be a good idea.

12-23-2013, 06:38 PM	#20
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba The new 20MP Sony A3000 is $279 with free one day shipping at Amazon with 18-55mm OSS lens and is about the same size as the SL1 but much lower in price. Amazon.com: Sony A3000 Interchangeable Lens Digital 20.1MP Camera with 18-55mm Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo Great sensor in a not-so-good body, with an almost unusable EVF and a low-grade LCD screen.

12-23-2013, 07:02 PM	#21
Pepe Le Pew Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 591	The best recent entry-level DSLRs for less than $650 Well it does beat the T4i.........

12-23-2013, 07:04 PM	#22
rbefly Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 2,030	Originally posted by causey Canon SL 1 -- a bad idea? Yes, Stefan, I'm afraid it is, and I'm 100% against it. One of the many differences between Pentax and the rest of the DSLR- APS-C pack is the metal chassis. We (Pentaxians) are so used to it that we've taken it for granted, as in 'Why? Doesn't everyone use metal for their camera chassis?" Uh...no, many don't. But virtually every reviewer, those who know that it's rare and becoming more rare, especially in lower-priced models, does remark about it, and in a somewhat reverant way. "It just feels solid" "Has a nice heft to the body" "It's durable, well built" "Along with the W/R, the body construction inspires confidence" and so on. Your suggestion is to give that up, willingly, to become another cheezy Canon clone, for the sake of a few ounces? But you've said you don't mind plastic bodies. Good, Canon and Nikon offer several in the low-priced DSLR-crop bodies. I'd much rather see a few Pentax users become 2-brand owners or even jump ship, (sorry, but bye, bye) than give up one of the greatest assets we have. That's not a choice I'd waste 2 seconds on. While we're at it, let's shave a couple ounces and dollars and ditch the pentaprism! A pentamirror's good enough. W/R? All those gaskets cost money, weigh an ounce or two, ditch' em too! Two control wheels? Nah! One's plenty! Hey, every few grams count, every nickel saved means a lower price point. Pentax can't be everything to everyone and I hope they never are. Buy the lightweight plastic Canon and a couple of 3rd party zooms, be happy. But don't try to drag a great, quality camera maker with you into cheese-puff land. JMO, Ron

12-23-2013, 07:27 PM	#23
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757 Original Poster	Originally posted by rbefly Yes, Stefan, I'm afraid it is, and I'm 100% against it. One of the many differences between Pentax and the rest of the DSLR- APS-C pack is the metal chassis. We (Pentaxians) are so used to it that we've taken it for granted, as in 'Why? Doesn't everyone use metal for their camera chassis?" Uh...no, many don't. But virtually every reviewer, those who know that it's rare and becoming more rare, especially in lower-priced models, does remark about it, and in a somewhat reverant way. "It just feels solid" "Has a nice heft to the body" "It's durable, well built" "Along with the W/R, the body construction inspires confidence" and so on. Your suggestion is to give that up, willingly, to become another cheezy Canon clone, for the sake of a few ounces? But don't try to drag a great, quality camera maker with you into cheese-puff land. JMO, Ron Ron, I'm pretty sure neither my words nor this thread is going to drag the quality of Pentax cameras down. Moreover, I wasn't suggesting Pentax should discard metal chassis altogether. I suppose Pentax could make a very light no-frills DSLR travel camera in addition to its excellent, robust, metal-based DSLR's. Who knows? An El Cheapo K-y might attract new buyers, too. The K-01 was a failure, IMO. Sturdy, but heavy, and without any kind of viewfinder. Many people ended up embracing it, because Pentax had to sell it at heavily discounted prices--and because it had the K mount. I bet Canon didn't invest into SL1's production as much money as Pentax spent with the K-01, and SL1's discount price is similar to the lowest prices of K-01. Canon simply re-packaged old technology in a simplistic body, which does appeal to many people for very simple reasons: SL1 is small and light. Sure, often re-packaging and simplifying are marketing tricks, but sometimes they can turn out to be useful from a consumer's viewpoint. I love my K-30, and I wouldn't exchange it for any SL1 or mirrorless camera. It's just that I'd like to have a very light Pentax as a second body. And I don't think I'm the only one to want this.

12-23-2013, 07:48 PM	#24
Pepe Le Pew Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 591	Originally posted by causey I bet Canon didn't invest into SL1's production as much money as Pentax spent with the K-01 Not to sure about that.........But see those amazing kids playing soccer commercial for the SL1 yet? They spend way to much money on Advertising such rubbish Stats don't lie.............;)

12-23-2013, 08:01 PM	#26
Pepe Le Pew Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 591	Moral point of view

12-23-2013, 08:05 PM	#27
tromboads Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Melbs Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,240	wait we are doing this all wrong. You want a light Pentax body? Just get a Program A / Me Super / MZ

12-23-2013, 08:08 PM	#28
Pepe Le Pew Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 591	Originally posted by tromboads wait we are doing this all wrong. You want a light Pentax body? Just get a Program A / Me Super / MZ Exactly

12-24-2013, 12:11 AM	#29
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by causey K-x: 580 grams SL 1: 407 grams Subjective, of course, but I find the 170 grams difference significant relative to total weight. But I did refer to K-x when saying I was expecting a lighter K-x2... For Pentax to make as light camera as SL1 they have to remove SR (which probably add 100-150 g). But having stabilisation in the body instead of in the lenses make many lenses lighter and smaller. So the complete Pentax kit will not weight much more. FI Canon 55-250 IS lens is about 150g more than Pentax DAL 50-200mm lens. Then there is stuff like pentaprism, built in AF motor..., that add weight on Pentax present entry level DSLR. Pentax would have to cripple their cameras alot to make them lightweight.

12-24-2013, 01:00 AM	#30
tromboads Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Melbs Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,240	I confess to getting the Z-10. sorry PZ-10 out.. I didn't realize they had a spot meter. BRILLIANT! Not only does it have a "green button", using it in manual mode, well it acts like AV mode. AND with an auto-film rewind! MENTAL!! Rechargeable li-ion battery + charger on the way. Sh1t I can throw some Delta1000 in there, set my depth of field as I wish, and green button away It even has EV lock. I'm not sure what else I'd really need? Oh. It looks proper "Merican Psyco bad-ass with a 28mm on the front. Ricoh GR. Move OVER!