[causey]

For Pentax to make as light camera as SL1 they have to remove SR (which probably add 100-150 g).
But having stabilisation in the body instead of in the lenses make many lenses lighter and smaller.
So the complete Pentax kit will not weight much more. FI Canon 55-250 IS lens is about 150g more than Pentax DAL 50-200mm lens.

Then there is stuff like pentaprism, built in AF motor..., that add weight on Pentax present entry level DSLR.
Pentax would have to cripple their cameras alot to make them lightweight.

Ok, thanks. This makes sense. So, K-x was as light as possible. Good to know; it appears I'll get a NEX or NX.

[jogiba]

The best recent entry-level DSLRs for less than $650

Well it does beat the T4i.........

SL1:
" Really small Prosumer size "

[jogiba]

Great sensor in a not-so-good body, with an almost unusable EVF and a low-grade LCD screen.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/235...ml#post2506225

[causey]

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/235...ml#post2506225

I'm going to check it out at Best But today. Many reviewers say the LCD and the EVF are really bad, but they may be unreasonably comparing them with their dslr's OVF. The sensor, however, is superb. Even the kit lens seems to be better than the 16-50 usually sold with the NEXes.

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Last edited by causey; 12-24-2013 at 12:49 PM.

[causey]

Looked at a Sony A3000 at Best Buy. The LCD isn't nice by modern standards, but it's clear enough, especially compared to the EVF, which is ugly. But my usage of "ugly" is an aesthetic term more than a functional one. Ugly as it is, the EVF does its job. I haven't noticed any image motion lag with it. It was pretty dark in the store, and I could see the frame's corners well enough. The camera is light, plastiky, but the kit lens has a nice finish. If the EVF had had a (much) higher resolution, the A3000 would have been exactly what I was looking for, but since it's only $280 at Amazon ($266, after 5% off with Discover), I can't complain, can I? Ordering one right now.

[causey]

Update: Ended up returning the A3000--absolutely no joy using it. Looking through the viewfinder is a pain, and the LCD isn't much better. Moreover, the sensor is noisier than my K-30's sensor. I'll stick to my K-30, hoping Pentax will come up with a lighter K-x2.

[richard balonglong]

I believe the answer to your quest is having a Pentax K-01...
It may not have an OVF or EVF or tilt/swivel LCD Screen, but I still believe the K-01 is the answer to your quest...
K-01 is cheap, small, has great IQ, K mount, etc...
I have one and I love it, and have been using it on my press field work and corporate photo shoots... It delivers more than what it looks like... =)
If you dig every bits of specifications from every camera you look at it, you'll never be satisfied from your final choice... Pick one finally without being bombarded with specifications and make the best out of it... So, if you have invested on Pentax glasses, the K-01 (if you want small camera) is the best for your needs...

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Last edited by richard balonglong; 12-31-2013 at 11:23 AM.

[causey]

I believe the answer to your quest is having a Pentax K-01...
It may not have an OVF or EVF or tilt/swivel LCD Screen, but I still believe the K-01 is the answer to your quest...
K-01 is cheap, small, has great IQ, K mount, etc...
I have one and I love it, and have been using it on my press field work and corporate photo shoots... It delivers more than what it looks like... =)
If you dig every bits of specifications from every camera you look at it, you'll never be satisfied from your final choice... Pick one finally without being bombarded with specifications and make the best out of it... So, if you have invested on Pentax glasses, the K-01 (if you want small camera) is the best for your needs...

My problem is weight. The K-01 is as heavy as a K-x, which is only 70 grams lighter than my K-30. Honestly, for me, a heavy MILC without viewfinder doesn't offer any advantage over K-30. I had a K-x; I'm hoping Pentax could come up with something even lighter than K-x, but, as someone explained above, this might not be possible.

[richard balonglong]

My problem is weight. The K-01 is as heavy as a K-x, which is only 70 grams lighter than my K-30. Honestly, for me, a heavy MILC without viewfinder doesn't offer any advantage over K-30. I had a K-x; I'm hoping Pentax could come up with something even lighter than K-x, but, as someone explained above, this might not be possible.

Okay... K-01 is heavy for a mirrorless, but that's because of the K-mount and its metal built...
The Canon SL 1 is really small and light DSLR, but the built is plasticky... And for the lens system for a small body, you don't have good choices if we are speaking about size...
Another good choice, but more expensive, is the Sony A7... I tried it, I smelled it, I caressed it, man it's beautiful and small for a full frame camera (I'm dedicated to get one after I get my paycheck) ... But the drawback when using the A7 with adapted Pentax glasses is that you're going for full manual operation...

[RyanW]

Get the SL1. As for the "this sensor is great, this sensor is crap" stuff. Look at photos taken with the cameras, not graphs and specs from DXO. The feedback I've seen on the Canon forum is that some prefer the stills and video to that of the Canon 60d which is several steps up in the food chain from the SL1. I don't think you'd like the SL1 with large lenses, but that doesn't sound like why you want it either.

At the price, I don't think there is a better value out there for a new dslr. Caveat, you can't raise shadows five stops. But then if you are having to do that regularly, something is wrong and it's not your camera.

[nickthetasmaniac]

Some food for thought...

I looked at the NEX: the lack of very good lenses in the E mount and the lack of an OVF turned me off. I looked at micro four thirds system: many great lenses, but, frankly, it didn't seem to me IQ was on par with the IQ of my K-30. (Subjectively, in terms of IQ, Pentax APS-C is closer to FF than m43 is to Pentax APS-C.) Plus, the EM-5--the only camera that in my view can be compared to a DSLR--is not lighter than Canon SL 1.

First, the viewfinder. Of course, it's personal preference, but have you actually used the SL1 OVF? Likewise the new EVF's found in the better NEX and Micro Four Thirds bodies? If you were comparing to a high-end APS or full frame body, then yes, I'd see your point. But virtually every good EVF (the new ones are very good) is worlds above the narrow, dim tunnels you find in low-end, mirror optical finders.

Second, IQ. Don't believe the hype, modern Micro Four Thirds sensors are excellent, to the point that any visible difference between them and the best APS will eventually come down primarily to individual editing and technique. For what it's worth, the current Sony-sourced MFT chips actually rate better than the Canon APS versions.

Third, weight. Check the EM5 and SL1 with equivalent lenses, unless you plan to carry body only...

[causey]

First, the viewfinder. Of course, it's personal preference, but have you actually used the SL1 OVF? Likewise the new EVF's found in the better NEX and Micro Four Thirds bodies? If you were comparing to a high-end APS or full frame body, then yes, I'd see your point. But virtually every good EVF (the new ones are very good) is worlds above the narrow, dim tunnels you find in low-end, mirror optical finders.

Second, IQ. Don't believe the hype, modern Micro Four Thirds sensors are excellent, to the point that any visible difference between them and the best APS will eventually come down primarily to individual editing and technique. For what it's worth, the current Sony-sourced MFT chips actually rate better than the Canon APS versions.

Third, weight. Check the EM5 and SL1 with equivalent lenses, unless you plan to carry body only....

Thank you for your suggestions.
Yes, I looked at the SL1 at Costco. The viewfinder is fine--as good as my old K-x's. A3000's EVF is horrible by comparison.
I discounted the NEX, since I want to have a viewfinder.
I never believe the hype; I looked at tons of pics on flickr.
EM5 is way out of my price range.

Anyway, I didn't buy the SL1 and I don't intend to buy it, since I don't want to invest in another line of lenses. My original point was this: maybe the concept of the SL 1 is not bad, maybe there is a market for such cameras (the SL 1 sells well), so maybe there is a reason to hope Pentax will come up with something similar, with a better sensor. This being said, in terms of IQ + function / price, the SL 1 beats the alternatives (assuming one is looking for a camera with a viewfinder), IMHO.

[JPT]

The answer might be staring you in the face. What about getting a used K-x? It's lighter and more compact than the K-30 and must be within your price range. I just used the DPR studio comparison tool to compare the image quality to the K-30 and aside from the lower megapixel count, it seems to be really good even by 2014 standards.

[causey]

The answer might be staring you in the face. What about getting a used K-x? It's lighter and more compact than the K-30 and must be within your price range. I just used the DPR studio comparison tool to compare the image quality to the K-30 and aside from the lower megapixel count, it seems to be really good even by 2014 standards.

As I said earlier, I had a K-x, which I regret having sold. However, the K-x is only 70 grams lighter than the K-30 I currently use.

K-x: 580 grams
SL 1: 407 grams

[micromacro]

My original point was this: maybe the concept of the SL 1 is not bad, maybe there is a market for such cameras (the SL 1 sells well), so maybe there is a reason to hope Pentax will come up with something similar, with a better sensor.

It is the market. I tell you for whom. There are two kind of people: who loves the shape of SL1 and who hates the shape of SL1. I love it. When I held SL1 first time, I felt like this shape was made personally for me. So, I forget about all mirrorless cameras around and bought SL1.
My son's EOS Canon is bigger, and I've never felt comfortable holding it.

Kids! Kids love that camera. At least all our 8-10 y.o. kids, who played with the camera, now want Santa to bring them SL1 for next Christmas. I think that SL1, when it gets cheaper, will be absolutely great introductory DSLR for kids.
With 40mm pancake STM I take this camera everywhere in my bag.