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01-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #31
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Wow, these pics are blowing up everywhere right now.
I am glad the format has been determined. When I first saw them I assumed they were MF of some type.

They are great pics. Its good to see a good artist getting their work recognised.

01-17-2014, 04:37 PM   #32
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Absolutely Beautiful work... watched the slide show on my 32" monitor and WoW, just Wow!
01-17-2014, 05:05 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I agree, and thus it stands to reason that aps-c is utterly un-needed, as we can take a shot with our 41MP phone cams and just add OOF transitions later! It will look just as good, right?
Not sure if sarcastic or not... especially the last part... but yes, if you know what you are doing and you have a picture with good light/exposure, in Photoshop anything is possible no matter what camera you are using and it will look good as well - even printed (as long you have the resolution to play with).

You have no idea how many times I had to work even with lower resolution pictures to make them pleasant with good colors and good subject isolation and get some decent prints out of them.
01-17-2014, 06:57 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Not sure if sarcastic or not... especially the last part...
Completely sarcastic, I'm afraid.

QuoteQuote:
You have no idea how many times I had to work even with lower resolution pictures to make them pleasant with good colors and good subject isolation and get some decent prints out of them.
Let's see some! By the way, I know it can be done, I'm saying that it usually can't be done very well in post, unless your starting point is already close to what you're going for.


Last edited by jsherman999; 01-17-2014 at 07:56 PM.
01-17-2014, 08:53 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Completely sarcastic, I'm afraid.



Let's see some! By the way, I know it can be done, I'm saying that it usually can't be done very well in post, unless your starting point is already close to what you're going for.

LOL, OK then
I have nothing to prove nor do I have the inclination to spend time on building cases and stuff.
I'm a designer, I know my stuff and I said my piece, believe me or not, who cares in the end? Is the internet anyway...
01-18-2014, 12:27 AM   #36
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From my own post:
QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Can't help but wonder what her background is. Some of her photos seem to go well beyond the usual vernacular photo esthetic.
I still have this nagging feeling she is something more than some innocent rustic that just happens to be taking barnyard snapshots of her kids on $4000 worth of gear.

Compare:
1 Her shot cropped
2 W. Eugene Smith, The Walk to Paradise Garden, 1946
W. Eugene Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Coincidence?

Last edited by wildman; 01-21-2014 at 03:21 AM.
01-18-2014, 12:31 AM   #37
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^^ Wildman, maybe she's just got the hang of Photoshop. A skill that eludes many, especially me.

01-18-2014, 03:16 AM   #38
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A few questions that come to my mind by this thread:

1. Could someone define a bit more precisely what the "The Full Frame Look" is?
An honest question - I just want to be on the same page as everyone else.

2. It sounds to me as if some object to PP on moral grounds alone. PP is "bad"
if it alters the literal visual accuracy of an image even if that is the explicit creative
intent of the photographer. Fake fog for instance.
Do I have that about right?

3. Isolation (DOF?) APS-C vs full frame.
Can't you get more or less the same effect, within broad limits, on either
depending on FL and/or aperture?...

... K20, f/7@560mm

Last edited by wildman; 01-21-2014 at 03:21 AM.
01-18-2014, 04:24 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
A few questions that come to my mind by this thread:

1. Could someone define a bit more precisely what the "The Full Frame Look" is?
An honest question - I just want to be on the same page as everyone else.

2. It sounds to me as if some object to PP on moral grounds alone. PP is "bad"
if it alters the literal visual accuracy of an image even if that is the explicit creative
intent of the photographer. Fake fog for instance.
Do I have that about right?

3. Isolation (DOF?) APS-C vs full frame.
Can't you get more or less the same effect, within broad limits, on either
depending on FL and/or aperture?...

... K20, f/7@560mm
I think the full frame look has to do with narrow depth of field, primarily.

Yes, you can get that look with APS-C, if you have room to work and can use longer focal lengths. Shooting with a FA 77 at f2, will actually give similar images on APS-C. In this case, the images have very smooth out of focus areas and nice transitions between in focus and out of focus, because there is some very nice glass being used. Honestly, the issue for most of us, with regard to creating photos like these has more to do with not having the subject matter, than with not being able to get narrow enough depth of field.

(FA77 at f2.8)




(FA 77 at f2)




(I am afraid I have no images on the level of this photographer's, so forgive a couple of images of my kids to demonstrate. I'm mostly a landscape photographer and that seems to involve more depth of field, not less.)

As to the whole post processing thing, I have no issues with people post processing. I just don't want to be able to identify it. To me, a well done image is not one where I look at it and think about the sharpening artifacts in the grass or, how the fog doesn't look quite natural. I am afraid I went through my own over-processing, over-sharpening time and I don't really like those photos so much any more. Others will differ and I think that's OK...
01-18-2014, 05:10 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Honestly, the issue for most of us, with regard to creating photos like these has more to do with not having the subject matter, than with not being able to get narrow enough depth of field.
Yep. I think for some a narrow DOF has become a cliché where most everything is shot this way without thought to appropriateness or not.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
As to the whole post processing thing, I have no issues with people post processing. I just don't want to be able to identify it. To me, a well done image is not one where I look at it and think about the sharpening artifacts in the grass or, how the fog doesn't look quite natural. I am afraid I went through my own over-processing, over-sharpening time and I don't really like those photos so much any more. Others will differ and I think that's OK...
Sounds to me you are not against PP just incompetent PP.

Nice shots I especially like the girl shot. I have a 85mm f/1.4 that I really ought to use more.

Thanks for your response.

Last edited by wildman; 01-18-2014 at 05:25 AM.
01-18-2014, 06:05 AM   #41
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QuoteQuote:
Shumilova told us her passion for photography manifested in early 2012 when she got her first camera.
Russian Mother Takes Magical Pictures of Her Two Kids With Animals On Her Farm | Bored Panda

And that makes us all look like ....
01-18-2014, 07:03 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
From my own post:

I still have this nagging feeling she is something more than some innocent rustic that just happens to be taking barnyard snapshots of her kids on $4000 worth of gear.
Well, she mentions that she has an extensive art background, which explains how she's able to see (and set up) compelling compositions. In that way she's a lot like our own Keitha McCall.

QuoteQuote:
Compare:
1 Her shot cropped
2 W. Eugene Smith, The Walk to Paradise Garden, 1946
W. Eugene Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Coincidence?
.

I'd say it's an utter coincidence, since children walking away together from their parents actually happens in real life quite a bit!



(^^ quick snap of mine, I probably have lots)


.
01-18-2014, 07:18 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
A few questions that come to my mind by this thread:

1. Could someone define a bit more precisely what the "The Full Frame Look" is?
An honest question - I just want to be on the same page as everyone else.
It's probably an offshoot to "The Film Look", a term used by film shooters to describe how their aps-c shots from the early days of digital differred from their 35mm film output. 'The Film Look' included an appealing grain (vs less appealing luminance/chroma noise,) more DR in the highlights, and then the greater subject isolation at the same FOV and apertures their film shots seemed to have. A little later Joseph James described 'equivalence' which layed out the physical reasons why what they were seeing was real

The Full Frame Look probably means something a bit different to everyone, but the general consensus is close to some combination of:

1) Less DOF at the same apertures and FOV that aps-c brings in the same situation
2) Less noise
3) More DR up from base ISO

I think most attribute #1 to that term more than anything.

Personally, I shot tens of thousands of aps-c shots before picking up FF, and my same subjects at the same distances, apertures and framing just seemed to 'float' more than before. I don;t always care for it, and can simply stop down one stop to expand the DOF again if I want... but I usually like The Full Frame Look better.

.
QuoteQuote:
3. Isolation (DOF?) APS-C vs full frame.
Can't you get more or less the same effect, within broad limits, on either
depending on FL and/or aperture?...

... K20, f/7@560mm

That's a long telephoto bird shot. It's easy to get 'isolation' in that situation with any format at almost any aperture, in fact it's hard to not isolate your subject in that situation. I think the focal lengths you may notice it most are in 20mm to 200mm, between f/1.8 and f/4, and with certain distances to subject.


.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-18-2014 at 07:32 AM.
01-18-2014, 08:04 AM   #44
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^^ I agree, lower noise and shallower DoF but also a higher yet smoother resolution easily creating that sharp 3-D look that's palpable . . . and no "jaggies".

I hate jaggies. I know you can deal with them in post but I get them a lot.

I'm not great at post-processing RAW files, this is about as close as I can get to that full frame look. Common factor in chasing this look involves the 77/1.8 Limited.



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Last edited by Parry; 01-18-2014 at 08:34 AM.
01-18-2014, 08:56 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Can't help but wonder what her background is. Some of her photos seem to go well beyond the usual vernacular photo esthetic. Maybe she has more training then we think.
Her Flickr profile says she's an architect, so she obviously has visual talent (I always wanted to be an architect too but lacked the talent so I ended up being a doctor...).

I think many of her pictures are just breath taking. A bit too sweet here and there, but on the whole just beautiful. The only thing that makes me a bit hesitant is the obviously pretty heavy PP. I also thought immediately of our "own" very talented Keitha. Is the picture in the end made by photography or with Photoshop? Not that there's anything wrong in either as such. But I bet Keitha and this lady could take a picture of a toilet seat and make it look brilliant. There's of course the question of the story and the composition of the picture, but I think you get the point.
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