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02-10-2014, 08:16 AM - 1 Like   #31
Zav
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I quite like it. The design might be unusual compared to other cameras but lost in the sea of smartphones and tablets, I don't think it will be that noticeable.

02-10-2014, 11:22 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zav Quote
I quite like it. The design might be unusual compared to other cameras but lost in the sea of smartphones and tablets, I don't think it will be that noticeable.
I agree.

Also about the ergonomics, Time will tell. Looking forward to hold one when I get a chance.

Looks like a High Quality MIJ product from Sigma and I expect the price to be in the $1000 range.
02-10-2014, 11:45 AM   #33
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My interest is piqued as well! I kind of like the design and I've always been interested in foveon technology as I think those extras megapixels might come in handy for my still life work as well as the occasional landscape.
02-10-2014, 05:23 PM   #34
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I think it can be revolutionary design. It looks more sensible than K-01's.

02-10-2014, 09:28 PM   #35
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A fixed lens design is hardly comparable to the K-mount K-01. I think a lot of people are judging this on its unusual appearance (ie its "styling"). How good the design is, aside from the superficial styling aspect, remains to be seen when people get a chance to hold and operate it (functionality and ergonomics).
02-11-2014, 01:29 AM   #36
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I mean ergonomics and "styling" here.
02-11-2014, 03:47 AM   #37
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One of the interesting points about this camera is the positioning of the focal plane so close to the front of the body, which means that the thickness of the body can be made very slim, as the fixed lens can be designed to accommodate the arrangement. That's what I meant by the comparison not being valid. There's no compromise arising from having an interchangeable lens connector, let alone a legacy one like the K-mount. I think judgment on the ergonomics should be withheld until the real thing can be held and used.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 02-11-2014 at 04:06 AM.
02-11-2014, 11:05 AM   #38
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I'm more interested in how the new sensor does. The low light performance of the current Foveon is limited by the fact that the green, and especially red, layers receive a lot less light than the blue layer on top. If you take a monochrome picture with the current Foveon and only use the blue channel, its low-light performance is comparable to a conventional Bayer sensor.

This was at ISO 1600 with the current DP2 Merrill, using only the blue channel:



For comparison, this is how noisy the red channel is in the same picture (click for full-size):



I can see how making the green and red layers 4x bigger would mitigate the low-light issue, but how will that affect the resolution? The whole point of the old Foveon is that no interpolation is necessary. All the colors are at every pixel. I'm really eager to see how the new sensor renders detail. Can it possibly be as good as the old one at low ISO? If not, what's the point?

02-13-2014, 01:28 PM   #39
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02-13-2014, 01:52 PM   #40
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It's an interesting design, not sure if I like it but will have to hold it before judging. I've been lusting over a fix lens compact-ish APS-C camera for awhile now.
04-11-2014, 12:10 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by scratchpaddy Quote
I'm more interested in how the new sensor does. The low light performance of the current Foveon is limited by the fact that the green, and especially red, layers receive a lot less light than the blue layer on top.
I am eager to buy a DP3M for my art reproduction work as it´s down to U$650* now. But with the new generation arround the corner I must wait to see if the price goes down further and/or the new model really offers much better resolution and dynamic range.
In this interview by Imaging-Resource Sigma Q&A Part II: Does Foveon’s Quattro sensor really out-resolve conventional 36-megapixel chips?, Foveon rep said that they managed 3650LW/PH with the Quattro vs 3150 with the Merril and that ISO performance was inproved by a full stop. Would that apply to dynamic range?

*I was about to replace K-5IIs with K-3 to improve my final output but I am happy with the K-5IIs so for the same money I think the Foveon is a better (although much more restricted) solution as accutance seems to compet with D800E for example.
04-11-2014, 04:07 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
*I was about to replace K-5IIs with K-3 to improve my final output but I am happy with the K-5IIs so for the same money I think the Foveon is a better (although much more restricted) solution as accutance seems to compet with D800E for example.
Completely agree, K-5iis is rock solid for a Bayer sensor. I'm looking forward to Quattro test results, I just wish their wide option was a bit wider.
04-27-2014, 11:47 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
I am eager to buy a DP3M for my art reproduction work as it´s down to U$650* now. But with the new generation arround the corner I must wait to see if the price goes down further and/or the new model really offers much better resolution and dynamic range.
In this interview by Imaging-Resource Sigma Q&A Part II: Does Foveon’s Quattro sensor really out-resolve conventional 36-megapixel chips?, Foveon rep said that they managed 3650LW/PH with the Quattro vs 3150 with the Merril and that ISO performance was inproved by a full stop. Would that apply to dynamic range?

*I was about to replace K-5IIs with K-3 to improve my final output but I am happy with the K-5IIs so for the same money I think the Foveon is a better (although much more restricted) solution as accutance seems to compet with D800E for example.
Carrrlangas, the resolution quoted for Quattro is for gray scale... I think. The way I understand it is that Quattros will have a higher black and white resolution and lower colour resolution when compared to the Merrills.
04-28-2014, 12:09 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rob01 Quote
Carrrlangas, the resolution quoted for Quattro is for gray scale... I think. The way I understand it is that Quattros will have a higher black and white resolution and lower colour resolution when compared to the Merrills.
No, it was for a color image, it was stated in the interview. They say the Quattro will have better Luminance and chroma resolution than the merrills, while improving SNR by approximately 1 due to larger photodiodes, despite lower resolution in the middle and bottom layers.

I ended up buying a DP2M becuase I found a great deal on a used unit. I am just trying it and it is really nice to use. Silly picture of my hand revealed great detail and special contrast. No question the lens is also excelent. I did a test vs K-5IIs + F28/2.8 and they were at least equally good (shot beer bottle´s sticker at 2 meters) I will repeat the test for a painting and my hand, I think the Merrill will have the advantage there.
04-28-2014, 12:49 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
No, it was for a color image, it was stated in the interview. They say the Quattro will have better Luminance and chroma resolution than the merrills, while improving SNR by approximately 1 due to larger photodiodes, despite lower resolution in the middle and bottom layers.

I ended up buying a DP2M becuase I found a great deal on a used unit. I am just trying it and it is really nice to use. Silly picture of my hand revealed great detail and special contrast. No question the lens is also excelent. I did a test vs K-5IIs + F28/2.8 and they were at least equally good (shot beer bottle´s sticker at 2 meters) I will repeat the test for a painting and my hand, I think the Merrill will have the advantage there.
Carrrlangas, I am pretty sure the resolution is based NOT on full colour resolution. I do not see how the Quattros can resolve more colour when they have only 5 MP of red and green compared to 15 MP for the Merrills. The way I see it the resolution is based on the blue colour or gray scale image overlayed with the other colours... there is no other way. It will have a higher SNR for the 5 MP colours but that is all.

I am also sticking with the Merrills. I bought a second hand DP1M and will go from there.

If Sigma does not supply the kind of full colour resolution I want... I will simply go for cameras from another company. Period. In a year or two we will have a Nikon successor with around 50MP thatwill match the colour resolution of the Merrills even through a Bayer sensor, or a Pentax full frame, or maybe a Foevon type of sensor from another company.
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