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02-25-2014, 10:32 AM   #16
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Numbers schnumbers.

As shown by jogiba, all it means is that the camera allows for the photog to embarrass himself with a ridiculous high ISO if he/she chooses to do so. This has absolutely no real world value. The real reason why these manufacturers allow for such high boost ISOs is so they can rank higher in sites like Snapsort... and we all know someone with more money than knowledge who bought a high priced camera based on useless data rather than real world experience.

02-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Brooke Meyer Quote
But it's only a 16 MP Sensor! What if you want to make a large print?
It's called stitching
02-25-2014, 11:40 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
204800 iso on the D4 is useless so what do you think you are going to do with 409600 iso ?
The subject is the D4s not the D4. Native ISO on the D4s is 100-25600. And like all cameras, you use ISO above native when you are desperate.
02-25-2014, 12:52 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Numbers schnumbers.

As shown by jogiba, all it means is that the camera allows for the photog to embarrass himself with a ridiculous high ISO if he/she chooses to do so. This has absolutely no real world value. The real reason why these manufacturers allow for such high boost ISOs is so they can rank higher in sites like Snapsort... and we all know someone with more money than knowledge who bought a high priced camera based on useless data rather than real world experience.
THIS!!! To a point. It's kind of like golf equipment: Golf equipment manufacturers brag about "longer" irons, but what they don't say is often their loft numbers misrepresent the facts. Golf iron manufacturers brag about long irons, but really they only adjust the loft of each iron to make it stronger. In essence, Iron A's 6 iron isn't really longer than Iron B's 6 iron, but through tweaking of numbers (loft), suddenly Iron A's 6 iron IS longer because it's loft is now equivalent to a 4 or 5 iron. So yes, Iron A's 6 iron IS longer than Iron B's 6i because Iron A is really a 4 iron, so of course it will be longer.

The same holds true for camera companies, and many other consumer products as well. "New and improved" often isn't.

02-25-2014, 12:54 PM   #20
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It's all a moot point anyway - how many of us can afford a $6500 body with the $2000 lens' that go with it?
02-25-2014, 01:49 PM   #21
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entry level 20mp Sony A3000 vs 16mp Nikon D4 @ 25600 iso


Sony Alpha A3000 Digital Camera with 18-55mm Lens ILCE3000K/B
Nikon D4 Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 25482 B&H Photo Video
02-25-2014, 02:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
204800 iso on the D4 is useless so what do you think you are going to do with 409600 iso ?
here is a comparison:
First Nikon D4s vs. D4 high ISO comparisons | Nikon Rumors



It is just so fascinating to see tech advances...

02-25-2014, 02:30 PM   #23
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02-25-2014, 02:30 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
here is a comparison:
First Nikon D4s vs. D4 high ISO comparisons | Nikon Rumors



It is just so fascinating to see tech advances...
Are you being facetious? Neither one looks particularly usable to me...
02-25-2014, 02:59 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Numbers schnumbers.

As shown by jogiba, all it means is that the camera allows for the photog to embarrass himself with a ridiculous high ISO if he/she chooses to do so. This has absolutely no real world value. The real reason why these manufacturers allow for such high boost ISOs is so they can rank higher in sites like Snapsort... and we all know someone with more money than knowledge who bought a high priced camera based on useless data rather than real world experience.
Why do you say this has no real world significance? I regularly work as a volunteer on a heritage railway, which involves working on a steam hauled dining service running at night. I would love to be able to capture the subtle interplay of firelight on steam with the lighting in the carriages providing extra interest. Currently, even on a bright moonlit night I am struggling to obtain fast enough shutter speeds to freeze a moving train, even with fast glass wide open (f1.4, f1.8)

This shot at 1/60 f1.4 12800ISO with a K5 shows all the problems, noisy, lack of resolution, shutter speed too slow, DR reduced, poor colour rendition. It is a cartonn rendition
Moonlight and steam | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I would love to be able do justice to such a scene, 400,000+ iso may be a gimmick but if it means 12800 becomes more useable, I am all for it!
02-26-2014, 10:01 AM   #26
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Keep in mind that the D4 lineup is targeted at journalists and other pro shooters. High ISO images print just fine in a news paper especially given that in a critical news photo, content trumps technicals, same for sports. No one in their right mind shooting landscapes is going to be far off of base ISO because DR and tonality and other important things suffer.

So Nikon can claim insane ISO's, but landscapers will take a look and say it's unusable at X. What the D4s will do is give another stop of "acceptable" to most folks. The max will still suck as it always does.

If you look at the DR graphs for Nikon cameras in general vs Canon cameras in general, it is only at base ISO and one stop up that the Sony chips have any real advantage over the Canon chip. So really if you are not shooting at base ISO or close to it, you're not getting the much talked about DR advantage.
02-26-2014, 10:09 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Are you being facetious? Neither one looks particularly usable to me...


I think this is jpg only. raw might be better.

The thing is, iso 409600 is attainable, very likely iso 25600 is very usable.

I thought "iso war" is basically over as iso 51200 of K5 set the limit. But apparently one can go much higher (more difficult for APSC though). Look forward to this day.... maybe the model after K-3 will push the iso further....
02-26-2014, 12:03 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote


I think this is jpg only. raw might be better.

The thing is, iso 409600 is attainable, very likely iso 25600 is very usable.

I thought "iso war" is basically over as iso 51200 of K5 set the limit. But apparently one can go much higher (more difficult for APSC though). Look forward to this day.... maybe the model after K-3 will push the iso further....
I don't know. I haven't seen improvements in recent sensors. The D4 really doesn't show a whole lot of benefit over a D800 once you normalize the SNR and dynamic range curves, as DXO Mark does. The big benefit it has is in terms of frame rate, because of fewer megapixels.

Unless there is some new tech that is really much better than old tech, full frame should show a stop benefit in SNR over APS-C.
02-26-2014, 12:12 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The big benefit it has is in terms of frame rate, because of fewer megapixels.
And for some at least the benefit is also fewer megapixels. PJ's don't need 36.
02-26-2014, 01:03 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't know. I haven't seen improvements in recent sensors.
The new MFD CMOS sensor. I assume that "each pixel has its own shutter speed" thing will make it to smaller sensors soon. PhaseOne is advertising only 1 stop of DR difference between ISO 100 and ISO 6400. That is a big jump compared to today. I'm looking forward to more DR at higher ISO than less noise thing by far.
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