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03-21-2014, 01:40 PM   #1
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Anyone have a bridge camera with constant f2.8 willing to answer questions?

I have been a DSLR user since the Pentax *istD. Right now, I have a Pentax K5-iis & lenses that I adore. The problem is I don't want to bring it with me on a foreign trip. A few years ago I got a Panasonic bridge camera that was pretty decent for the images I was going to capture, but it focused very slowly. I waited too long to send it back and gave it away (anonymously, their family's camera was stolen, the dad had just been diagnosed with cancer). I got a Sony bridge camera and liked it better. Now I have seen that there are bridge cameras with a constant f2.8, but reviews say f2.8 on a bridge is not like a SLR lens at f2.8. I really like bokeh. Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks,
Denise

03-21-2014, 02:32 PM   #2
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The Sony RX10 is the best bridge camera on the planet with constant f2.8.

QuoteQuote:
Sony has a long history of making interesting cameras and have, in recent years, produced some of the most innovative products and technologies. Not all of these developments have caught on but we've admired its pioneering spirit, even when we haven't always loved the products.

The Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 combines aspects of two of the company's most imagination-catching cameras - the current RX100 II zoom compact and the near-legendary R1 from 2005. It revives the large-sensor, long-zoom concept of the R1, but utilizing the RX100 II's 1"-type BSI CMOS sensor, meaning it can offer a balance of high image quality and long zoom in a sensibly sized package. In this case it means the RX10 is able to offer a 24-200mm equivalent F2.8 lens.

That relatively big sensor means the RX10 is not a small camera - it's about the height and width of a small DSLR. Its body is slimmer than a DSLR but its 8.3x lens adds a stout, weighty bulk to the proceedings.
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 key features

20MP 1"-type BSI CMOS sensor (13.2 x 8.8mm)
24-200mm equivalent stabilized F2.8 lens
Weather-sealed magnesium alloy body
Manual zoom and aperture rings
Tilting 1.23 million dot rear LCD
1.44M dot OLED viewfinder
ISO 125 - 12800 (expandable down to ISO 80)
Built-in 3EV Neutral Density filter
Approx 10 fps continuous shooting in 'Speed Priority mode'
1080/60p video with full-sensor sampling, uncompressed HDMI output
Wi-Fi with NFC

Of course, a lot of time has passed since the R1 was launched, so it's no surprise that the RX10 is a more capable camera. However Sony says it has added a lot over even the RX100 II launched earlier this year. For example by using the same Bionz X processor as the Alpha 7 and 7R, it gains more sophisticated image processing. Significantly it also gains a built-in 3EV neutral density filter, meaning you can make use of that F2.8 maximum aperture, even in bright light.

The RX10 also becomes the first Sony to feature a 'Direct Drive SSM' focus motor, which uses piezoelectric materials to position the focus element, rather than linear motors. The company says this allows the lens to be both moved and stopped more accurately - reducing focus times. The lens also has a pretty reasonable close-focus distance, that increases from 3cm at the wide-angle end to 30cm at the other extreme (giving magnification ratio of 0.45x and 0.38x respectively).
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Review: Digital Photography Review


QuoteQuote:
The f/2.8 lens offers wonderful depth of field, especially zoomed in — DSLR lenses that can get this close and still shoot soft-background shots often cost nearly as much as the RX10.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5463784/sony-rx10-review

03-21-2014, 04:00 PM   #3
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Bokeh on a bridge camera with a small-ish sensor will not be as pronounced as that from and APS-C or full-frame sensor camera with a f2.8 lens. The reason is the smaller the sensor, the larger the depth of field. Sure, you will still see some depth with a small-ish sensor camera (Like the RX10) at 2.8 and depending how close you are to your subject (or how far in you are zoomed), but dont expect it to isolate your subject or produce that nice soft out of focus background as well as with a larger sensor camera with a comparable lens. That being said, the RX10 is a fine camera for overall shooting and most will be quite pleased with it, although not much smaller than carrying around a K5 with a constant 2.8 lens attached.

Jason
03-21-2014, 05:39 PM   #4
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Thank you both!

Does it handle lower lit situations like you would expect a 2.8? I have a Sony DSC-HX100V. I took it on a cruise...where I was warned about pickpockets & grab-n-gos in some of the ports. I could "trick" it into get some of the shots I wanted by using the burst feature or the timer. It is f5.6 fully zoomed. Am I going to see a significant difference?

03-21-2014, 05:49 PM   #5
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The RX10 has a 1" sensor like the new Nikon V3 but it has a better low light rating.


The F2.8 in a 1" sensor is much slower than F2.8 in a full frame camera but much better than the small sensor in the other superzoom bridge cameras.
03-21-2014, 07:23 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info. Hmmmm.
03-21-2014, 08:05 PM   #7
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I had a Panasonic FZ200 for while and even at 2.8 the depth of field was much wider than with the SLR. I almost never got much of a blurred background.

03-22-2014, 03:12 AM   #8
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I have the RX10, and it is a great walkabout camera. I shoot mainly landscapes so I don't shoot wide open very often. Very sharp, good dynamic range and you can get shallow DOF. Ok with this shot I was at minimum focus distance at 200mm equivalent, this was at f/4


03-22-2014, 03:18 AM   #9
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Regarding low light capability, in general terms, the larger the sensor the better the camera handles low light, including with an f2.8 lens, which is only a moderately wide aperture. For better handling of light (faster shutter at least), you will need something wider, like an f2.0 or larger with a smaller sensor camera (Bridge camera), in my opinion. Still, a camera like your K5 with an f2.8 lens will handle light (faster and better noise performance) than a smaller sensor camera at f2.8. Although the camera like the RX10 an RX100 do seem to handle noise quite well for a 1 inch sensor, the K5 should give you much cleaner results on average, not to mention much better IQ overall with a decent lens.

There are non bridge compact cameras with wider apertures (at the wide end of the focal range at least) which may be worth a glance.

What is most important to you right now, size, Image quality, other attributes, price? (if size matters along with IQ, you may want to consider the tiny Sony NEX-3N with an adapter and use all of your current Pentax glass, not to mention a much better chance at achieve the preferred bokeh characteristics you enjoy with your K-5)

http://camerasize.com/compare/#372,442 (K5ii and NEX-3n)
http://camerasize.com/compare/#489,442 (RX10 and NEX-3n)


Jason

Last edited by Jasvox; 03-22-2014 at 03:26 AM.
03-22-2014, 06:00 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Regarding low light capability, in general terms, the larger the sensor the better the camera handles low light, including with an f2.8 lens, which is only a moderately wide aperture. For better handling of light (faster shutter at least), you will need something wider, like an f2.0 or larger with a smaller sensor camera (Bridge camera), in my opinion. Still, a camera like your K5 with an f2.8 lens will handle light (faster and better noise performance) than a smaller sensor camera at f2.8. Although the camera like the RX10 an RX100 do seem to handle noise quite well for a 1 inch sensor, the K5 should give you much cleaner results on average, not to mention much better IQ overall with a decent lens.

There are non bridge compact cameras with wider apertures (at the wide end of the focal range at least) which may be worth a glance.

What is most important to you right now, size, Image quality, other attributes, price? (if size matters along with IQ, you may want to consider the tiny Sony NEX-3N with an adapter and use all of your current Pentax glass, not to mention a much better chance at achieve the preferred bokeh characteristics you enjoy with your K-5)

Compare camera dimensions side by side (K5ii and NEX-3n)
Compare camera dimensions side by side (RX10 and NEX-3n)


Jason
I agree, the Sony NEX-3N sells for $299.99 at B&H with the 16-50mm (24-75mm FF eqiv) PZ OSS power zoom lens and the APS-C sensor has a much better rating than the top rated bridge cameras.


And the Pentax lenses work great with it.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/252...ml#post2724712
03-22-2014, 07:32 AM   #11
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When you say bridge, does that mean you want a superzoom on it? The pentax Q has a constant f2.8 zoom called lens number 06. But changing lense is annoying to me. (I am thinking on selling my Q because I just got the K500 )

But for low light pictures, I really like the pentax MX-1 (I Have one and love it) which has a 4X zoom that goes from f 1.8 to 2.4 so that camera works very well in low light. The sensor in it is a little bigger than a regular compact. It has a swivel lcd on it so you can take pictures of animals etc at your feet without lying on the ground and it just takes great pictures plus has a Pentax menu system.

two days ago i saw how Olympus was selling their version (XZ-2) for 239 and then if you take the SPRING coupon, 20% more off and get that camera for 191 or so. They also have a nice little compact on teh same sale that also has a super bright lens (f1.8 for like 130 bucks with the couon) . Reconditioned Cameras - Outlet | Olympus


I have a Lumix DMC ZS-19 (which I think now sells for about 150 range but it has a touchscreen which I just learned how to use after using it for a year, you can touch an item in the screen and it focuses and shoots it. I love the Lumix because all the pictures just come out great and it has that 20X zoom and you can stck it in your pocket, but it doesn't have some super wide aperture on it or anything.

For low light, I think that Pentax MX-1 is fantastic but it doesn't have a huge zoom on it. Its also not that small--but its nice.

Last edited by paulcote; 03-22-2014 at 07:34 AM. Reason: some words got cut off.
03-22-2014, 11:02 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
I have the RX10, and it is a great walkabout camera. I shoot mainly landscapes so I don't shoot wide open very often. Very sharp, good dynamic range and you can get shallow DOF. Ok with this shot I was at minimum focus distance at 200mm equivalent, this was at f/4


Beautiful image!!!

---------- Post added 03-22-14 at 02:08 PM ----------

Thank you all for your comments and information. I learned on film cameras. Digital is still throwing me a curve ball at times!

I want the best bang for my buck quality wise, as small as possible...easy right?

We are going to be staying at a house a few blocks from the beach in the Caribbean. A colleague is letting us stay for free as a return favor for issues we took care of when he was out of town. We went on a cruise 15 years ago that stopped at this port. The beach front looked great, 2-3 blocks in, not so much. He said it is a "resort town" now. Google Maps' street view shows me that is pretty much looks the same. I want something that will give me great image quality almost as if I had my "big camera" kit with me that will fit in a slash proof sling. (The sling is small but still big enough that I can carry my 60-250mm f4.0 and a Sigma 50mm 1.4 in it together...These plus my K5-iis with a Sigma Contemporary 17-70mm 2.8-4.0 is my typical "walk-around kit"). The older Sony bridge I already have fits inside with plenty of room. I saw reviews on the on the RX-10, but I'm not sure I justify $1,300 when I could get another K5-iis for half of that if it was lost/stolen.

Here is a link to my Instagram feed. I am participating in a photo-a-day challenge so it will give you a pretty good random sampling of the type of photos I take. Tags indicate which camera/lens. Instagram
The images I capture on this trip will probably be used in a slide show on a TV screen patients can watch at the office while waiting and wall art if the image quality is there. Nothing that is going to be published in Nat. Geographic...

So now...since smaller is better, I don't mind changing lenses if necessary, I want plenty of zoom, and I like macro and bokeh too, what would you suggest? LOL I was looking at mirrorless too, but was intrigued by the constant f2.8 on the bridge cameras. Do the Pentax Q lenses work with the Sony NEX-3N without an adapter?

---------- Post added 03-22-14 at 02:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
I agree, the Sony NEX-3N sells for $299.99 at B&H with the 16-50mm (24-75mm FF eqiv) PZ OSS power zoom lens and the APS-C sensor has a much better rating than the top rated bridge cameras.
Where did you find this chart. Can you customize it to show the comparison of the NEX-3N and Q7?
03-22-2014, 12:35 PM   #13
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I think the MX-1 has the same size sensor as the Q7.
03-22-2014, 04:28 PM - 1 Like   #14
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Are you going to be staying in the same location each night of your trip? No backpacking or traveling from place to place? If in the same place each night, I'd recommend just taking your usual kit, the one you use most and not worrying about it. 99.99% of people who travel internationally come back with their kit in tact and I bet a far higher percentage of people regret not taking their best camera.

Jason
03-22-2014, 07:08 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
I think the MX-1 has the same size sensor as the Q7.
Thanks so much!

---------- Post added 03-22-14 at 10:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Are you going to be staying in the same location each night of your trip? No backpacking or traveling from place to place? If in the same place each night, I'd recommend just taking your usual kit, the one you use most and not worrying about it. 99.99% of people who travel internationally come back with their kit in tact and I bet a far higher percentage of people regret not taking their best camera.

Jason
Thanks, I have considered that too. I have a couple of months to decide and play with new "travel" gear if I get some. Thanks for your help.
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