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03-26-2014, 06:41 AM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony is actually quite outspoken of their desires to enter the high end market: Sony Korea slides unveils the plan to focus on the “High-End” market! | sonyalpharumors

Or is a Sony Medium Format not considered high-end, just because its Sony?
Sony's problem is the lack of a cohesive plan. Just shot gunning the market with a variety of individually interesting cameras is not a plan. But maybe they're big enough to pull it all together eventually...

03-26-2014, 07:29 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Wasn't FF mirrorless a niche nobody was supposed to be interested in too? LOL!
The DMF market is what, 2 orders of magnitude smaller?

The Pentax 645D, a modern, affordable digital medium format DSLR, was launched in 2010. Initial monthly production volume - 500pcs. That's (assuming constant production) 6000 units per year.
03-26-2014, 08:49 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The DMF market is what, 2 orders of magnitude smaller?

The Pentax 645D, a modern, affordable digital medium format DSLR, was launched in 2010. Initial monthly production volume - 500pcs. That's (assuming constant production) 6000 units per year.
And the proposed $5000,- of the Sony DMF is two orders of magniture smaller compared to the 645D. That price does take it out of the niche area. And then the production volume capacity of Sony vs Pentax... well...
03-26-2014, 09:09 AM   #34
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$5.000 being two orders of magnitude smaller means the 645D was $500.000.

03-26-2014, 09:57 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
And the proposed $5000,- of the Sony DMF is two orders of magniture smaller compared to the 645D. That price does take it out of the niche area. And then the production volume capacity of Sony vs Pentax... well...
The 645D was ~ $10,000 USD initially.
One order of magnitude less = 10,000 x 0.1 = $1000
Two orders of magnitude less = 10,000 x 0.01 = $100
03-26-2014, 11:00 AM   #36
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Details. Details. Stop qubbling over Details.

Pentax = Bad.
Sony = Good.
03-26-2014, 06:49 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sony's problem is the lack of a cohesive plan. Just shot gunning the market with a variety of individually interesting cameras is not a plan. But maybe they're big enough to pull it all together eventually...
That is the biggest reason why I'm very leery of buying a Sony camera. They also have no history, no legacy in the photography world. The little legacy they did have with the Minolta purchase, they tossed it by the wayside. They could just toss it all away tomorrow and walk away from the camera business, calling it an experiment that didn't work out. As long as several other competitors are using Sony sensors, they are making money. Sony's problem is they have their fingers in everything but in recent years, their products are considered mediocre in much of the marketplace. Sony was once the top dog in electronics with names like Samsung and LG (they used to be Gold Star) in the discount stores. Over the years, this has completely reversed. Kind of sad but it's happened to a lot of big names.

03-27-2014, 04:44 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
That is the biggest reason why I'm very leery of buying a Sony camera. They also have no history, no legacy in the photography world. The little legacy they did have with the Minolta purchase, they tossed it by the wayside. They could just toss it all away tomorrow and walk away from the camera business, calling it an experiment that didn't work out. As long as several other competitors are using Sony sensors, they are making money. Sony's problem is they have their fingers in everything but in recent years, their products are considered mediocre in much of the marketplace. Sony was once the top dog in electronics with names like Samsung and LG (they used to be Gold Star) in the discount stores. Over the years, this has completely reversed. Kind of sad but it's happened to a lot of big names.
"Apple slipped behind Samsung, Sony and Microsoft in a 2014 customer experience survey from Forrester Research (via The Wall Street Journal). This is the third annual survey, and the first time Apple has fallen behind these rival companies.

The survey measures customer experience, which involves difficult-to-define criteria based on how a customer feels about his or her interaction with a company. Forrester queried 7,500 consumers about their retail and customer support experiences and used the responses to assign each company a customer-experience index score. "

Apple Falls Behind Microsoft, Samsung, and Sony in New Consumer Experience Survey - Mac Rumors

03-27-2014, 05:38 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sony's problem is the lack of a cohesive plan. Just shot gunning the market with a variety of individually interesting cameras is not a plan. But maybe they're big enough to pull it all together eventually...
And I suppose you find not doing anything at all a plan then?

All you say is absolutely true. Sony is shot gunning. Maybe due to lack of experience in the sector or due to just not being aware what the market wants. Whatever. But shotgunning and seeying what sticks is a plan as any other. And at least they're doing something and working hard at that too. Almost all other camera manufacturers are sitting still, completely dead in the water. Just marketing same old / same old products. Stuck fighting a trench-war amongst themselves. So Sony can easily afford to take the shot gunning route. The others are to afraid to move anyway.

Point is. People here were assuming Sony is not going to take a swing at MF. (Just like they thought they wouldn't take a swing at FF MILC.) But with their shotgunning tactics it wouldn't surprise me at all.
03-27-2014, 06:23 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
And I suppose you find not doing anything at all a plan then?

All you say is absolutely true. Sony is shot gunning. Maybe due to lack of experience in the sector or due to just not being aware what the market wants. Whatever. But shotgunning and seeying what sticks is a plan as any other. And at least they're doing something and working hard at that too. Almost all other camera manufacturers are sitting still, completely dead in the water. Just marketing same old / same old products. Stuck fighting a trench-war amongst themselves. So Sony can easily afford to take the shot gunning route. The others are to afraid to move anyway.

Point is. People here were assuming Sony is not going to take a swing at MF. (Just like they thought they wouldn't take a swing at FF MILC.) But with their shotgunning tactics it wouldn't surprise me at all.
I think you pick one (or if you are big, several) segment of the market and do a really good job filling it. Release solid camera bodies and good glass to pair with them. Sony to this point has just expected to release bodies with the expectation of future glass coming (some of which isn't great quality) and adapters for lenses for other mounts and everything will be fine.

I don't care if Sony releases a medium format camera, but the thing that makes medium format amazing is not the size of the sensor, but the quality of the glass. And if Sony doesn't have that history, the idea that they will step in and make a full line of lenses (when they haven't even really started on a line up for full frame E Mount) is crazy. They may be a big company, but a little coherence would make buying Sony cameras feel like a better idea.
03-27-2014, 07:27 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think you pick one (or if you are big, several) segment of the market and do a really good job filling it. Release solid camera bodies and good glass to pair with them. Sony to this point has just expected to release bodies with the expectation of future glass coming (some of which isn't great quality) and adapters for lenses for other mounts and everything will be fine.
They went the way of the mirrorless systemcamera. Most of their products are clearly focussed on that. With the exceptions being products that provide support for existing users. I don't see how that can be considered confusing.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't care if Sony releases a medium format camera, but the thing that makes medium format amazing is not the size of the sensor, but the quality of the glass. And if Sony doesn't have that history, the idea that they will step in and make a full line of lenses (when they haven't even really started on a line up for full frame E Mount) is crazy. They may be a big company, but a little coherence would make buying Sony cameras feel like a better idea.
True, but remember, it's still only a rumor. The cameras are rumored to be VERY different. "Something the world has never seen." So it could even be that the Sony DMF will be in the form of a fixed prime compact with MF sensor? Then the, very realistic, glass-problem that you describe here won't even exit. And it would follow the line of their succesfull FF sensored compact very coherently.
03-27-2014, 07:42 AM   #42
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Rumors are always about "something the world has never seen". Pentax is supposed to launch about a dozen of those things... yesterday
03-27-2014, 07:49 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Rumors are always about "something the world has never seen". Pentax is supposed to launch about a dozen of those things... yesterday
Oh now you're just trying to provoke me...
03-27-2014, 08:20 AM   #44
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Latest rumour about the potential launch of a medium format camera by Sony:

(SR3) More tidbits on the Medium Format Sony: “Imagine a sort of digital Mamiya 7″. | sonyalpharumors

Definitely not a rangefinder camera like the Mamiya 7 was but why not a short-register medium format camera with interchangeable lenses? Think of a NEX-7 under steroids.
03-27-2014, 09:00 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Think of a NEX-7 under steroids.
A Texas NEX
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