Fuji will launch a Medium Format camera with the Sony 50MP sensor this summer!

Winder · 01-26-2016, 08:38 AM

I think Fuji is in a good spot to be the first to produce a MF mirrorless. They have been making MF lenses for years and they have a long history of making MF range finder film cameras. Fuji has the distribution in the pro-shops. I would love to own a Fuji MF-D 645 with a really good 75mm and 45mm F/2.8 lens with a leaf shutter.

**Digitalis** · 01-26-2016, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by redrockcoulee

Fuji has lots of experience making Large Format lenses as does Nikon

The problem is that some of the Fuji and Nikkor lenses often have smaller imaging circles - which means restricted camera movements than competing Schnieder or Rodenstock equivalents. If Fuji does make a MF Digital camera, the wider incident angle allowed by the organic sensor tech could potentially reduce lens casts. The camera could utilize Tilt and Shift movements.

I would love a Nikkor 800mm f/12 T ED with an updated lens design and nano crystal coat - though I don't think my portrait models would like it.

Winder · 01-26-2016, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

If Fuji does make a MF Digital camera, the wider incident angle allowed by the organic sensor tech could potentially reduce lens casts. The camera could utilize Tilt and Shift movements.

Fuji and Panasonic have partnered on the organic sensor technology. The current problem is that organic sensors are hot and consume a lot of power. The problem is made worse by increasing the sensor size. Panasonic still can use one in a 4/3 body, so a medium format organic sensor may be a couple of years away.

**Digitalis** · 01-26-2016, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Winder

The current problem is that organic sensors are hot and consume a lot of power. The problem is made worse by increasing the sensor size

Phase one and hasselblad have active cooling on some of their sensors through using a fan to blow air on a heatsink connected to the sensor package. Though the power issue perhaps isn't as bad as we think it is: sensors and their associated electronics only pull current when they are being used.

Winder · 01-26-2016, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Phase one and hasselblad have active cooling on some of their sensors through using a fan to blow air on a heatsink connected to the sensor package. Though the power issue perhaps isn't as bad as we think it is: sensors and their associated electronics only pull current when they are being used.

But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor.

**Digitalis** · 01-26-2016, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Winder

But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor.

well then their engineers have the work cut out for them.

**luftfluss** · 01-26-2016, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

well then their engineers have the work cut out for them.

There will have to be some very granular power-gating, and the image signal processor will probably be highly compartmentalized in order to control leakage. This is going to be expensive

**Digitalis** · 01-27-2016, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

This is going to be expensive

Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies.

**luftfluss** · 01-27-2016, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies.

The cost of implementing organic sensor tech, I meant - expensive. And heat isn't the only issue. Battery life must be managed.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to what Fuji does with the new MF and also in their application of an organic sensor.

stevebrot · 01-27-2016, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Winder

But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor.

Originally posted by Digitalis

well then their engineers have the work cut out for them.

Steve

**RobA_Oz** · 01-27-2016, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies.

I'm sure solid-state cooling systems will find their way into larger-bodied cameras at some stage, probably high-resolution large-format video cameras at first. Perhaps they'll eventually be integrated with some sensors.

Jonathan Mac · 01-27-2016, 02:33 PM - **1 Like**

If Fuji bring out a MF digital they have the disadvantage of not having legacy lenses available for it. BUT they have the advantage of not having to make it an SLR to natively use legacy lenses. It would be a mirrorless and certainly the smallest, lightest MF digital camera available. That could be very interesting indeed.

**Digitalis** · 01-27-2016, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I'm sure solid-state cooling systems will find their way into larger-bodied cameras at some stage

Peltier effect cooling? on its own, it is notoriously inefficient and wasteful of energy. And you still have to get rid of the heat through some other means.

**RobA_Oz** · 01-27-2016, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Peltier effect cooling? on its own, it is notoriously inefficient and wasteful of energy. And you still have to get rid of the heat through some other means.

Semiconductor junctions are good for a lot of things, so it is a form of Peltier effect, even though it's billed as solid-state refrigeration, but the idea is simply to get the heat away from the sensor and out to the atmosphere. The problem for the sensor with regard to heat build-up is that it's buried under several layers of apparatus, including the LCD screen, but complicated when IBIS is used. A fixed sensor has a chance of using thermally-conductive materials to take the heat away, but the moving sensor platform with IBIS doesn't allow that. Cooling fans applied directly to the sensor bring complications of their own.

Mistral75 · 01-28-2016, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

If Fuji bring out a MF digital they have the disadvantage of not having legacy lenses available for it. BUT they have the advantage of not having to make it an SLR to natively use legacy lenses. It would be a mirrorless and certainly the smallest, lightest MF digital camera available. That could be very interesting indeed.

They do have a lot of optical formulas available: Fuji are the one that design and manufacture the Hasselblad H lenses.

Medium Format - Hasselblad

01-26-2016, 09:30 AM	#32
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by redrockcoulee Fuji has lots of experience making Large Format lenses as does Nikon The problem is that some of the Fuji and Nikkor lenses often have smaller imaging circles - which means restricted camera movements than competing Schnieder or Rodenstock equivalents. If Fuji does make a MF Digital camera, the wider incident angle allowed by the organic sensor tech could potentially reduce lens casts. The camera could utilize Tilt and Shift movements. I would love a Nikkor 800mm f/12 T ED with an updated lens design and nano crystal coat - though I don't think my portrait models would like it. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-26-2016 at 09:37 AM.

01-27-2016, 12:50 AM	#38
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by luftfluss This is going to be expensive Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-27-2016 at 12:55 AM.

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01-26-2016, 08:38 AM	#31
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	I think Fuji is in a good spot to be the first to produce a MF mirrorless. They have been making MF lenses for years and they have a long history of making MF range finder film cameras. Fuji has the distribution in the pro-shops. I would love to own a Fuji MF-D 645 with a really good 75mm and 45mm F/2.8 lens with a leaf shutter.

01-26-2016, 02:50 PM	#33
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Digitalis If Fuji does make a MF Digital camera, the wider incident angle allowed by the organic sensor tech could potentially reduce lens casts. The camera could utilize Tilt and Shift movements. Fuji and Panasonic have partnered on the organic sensor technology. The current problem is that organic sensors are hot and consume a lot of power. The problem is made worse by increasing the sensor size. Panasonic still can use one in a 4/3 body, so a medium format organic sensor may be a couple of years away.

01-26-2016, 08:50 PM	#34
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Winder The current problem is that organic sensors are hot and consume a lot of power. The problem is made worse by increasing the sensor size Phase one and hasselblad have active cooling on some of their sensors through using a fan to blow air on a heatsink connected to the sensor package. Though the power issue perhaps isn't as bad as we think it is: sensors and their associated electronics only pull current when they are being used.

01-26-2016, 09:01 PM	#35
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Digitalis Phase one and hasselblad have active cooling on some of their sensors through using a fan to blow air on a heatsink connected to the sensor package. Though the power issue perhaps isn't as bad as we think it is: sensors and their associated electronics only pull current when they are being used. But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor.

01-26-2016, 09:04 PM	#36
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Winder But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor. well then their engineers have the work cut out for them.

01-26-2016, 10:36 PM	#37
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Originally posted by Digitalis well then their engineers have the work cut out for them. There will have to be some very granular power-gating, and the image signal processor will probably be highly compartmentalized in order to control leakage. This is going to be expensive

01-27-2016, 09:13 AM	#39
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Originally posted by Digitalis Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies. The cost of implementing organic sensor tech, I meant - expensive. And heat isn't the only issue. Battery life must be managed. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to what Fuji does with the new MF and also in their application of an organic sensor.

01-27-2016, 12:59 PM	#40
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Winder But with mirrorless, the sensor is always pulling current. The sensor performs all of the functions.... AF is done on sensor. The EVF is reading from the sensor. Originally posted by Digitalis well then their engineers have the work cut out for them. Steve

01-27-2016, 01:19 PM	#41
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	Originally posted by Digitalis Medium format? Expensive? and here I was expecting it to have the price tag of a D600. Fortunately Silver is extremely good at transmitting heat - it is the only metal that can outperform copper in that regard. There might be a way to effectively shunt heat away from the sensor and associated electronics that is efficient. With a medium format camera there will be plenty of body space to fit such a system. None of us are expecting Fuji to be able to cram a medium format sensor into a camera with the same form factor as their current APS-C bodies. I'm sure solid-state cooling systems will find their way into larger-bodied cameras at some stage, probably high-resolution large-format video cameras at first. Perhaps they'll eventually be integrated with some sensors.

01-27-2016, 02:33 PM - 1 Like	#42
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,887	If Fuji bring out a MF digital they have the disadvantage of not having legacy lenses available for it. BUT they have the advantage of not having to make it an SLR to natively use legacy lenses. It would be a mirrorless and certainly the smallest, lightest MF digital camera available. That could be very interesting indeed.

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01-27-2016, 06:17 PM	#43
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I'm sure solid-state cooling systems will find their way into larger-bodied cameras at some stage Peltier effect cooling? on its own, it is notoriously inefficient and wasteful of energy. And you still have to get rid of the heat through some other means.

01-27-2016, 08:57 PM	#44
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	Originally posted by Digitalis Peltier effect cooling? on its own, it is notoriously inefficient and wasteful of energy. And you still have to get rid of the heat through some other means. Semiconductor junctions are good for a lot of things, so it is a form of Peltier effect, even though it's billed as solid-state refrigeration, but the idea is simply to get the heat away from the sensor and out to the atmosphere. The problem for the sensor with regard to heat build-up is that it's buried under several layers of apparatus, including the LCD screen, but complicated when IBIS is used. A fixed sensor has a chance of using thermally-conductive materials to take the heat away, but the moving sensor platform with IBIS doesn't allow that. Cooling fans applied directly to the sensor bring complications of their own.

01-28-2016, 02:34 AM	#45
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by Jonathan Mac If Fuji bring out a MF digital they have the disadvantage of not having legacy lenses available for it. BUT they have the advantage of not having to make it an SLR to natively use legacy lenses. It would be a mirrorless and certainly the smallest, lightest MF digital camera available. That could be very interesting indeed. They do have a lot of optical formulas available: Fuji are the one that design and manufacture the Hasselblad H lenses. Medium Format - Hasselblad