[infoomatic]

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still did not try neither of the two cameras, but as mentioned in my first post I am not in a hurry. However, I read about Fujis fullframe rumors, does anyone know if there is any credible source for this or even an official statement? The Fuji X system seems quite nice (except for being not fullframe) and Fuji seems to care more about high quality and fast but also small lenses.

In a perfect world I would stick with Pentax and enjoy a Nikon D610 (or 810)-like fullframe Pentax DSLR together with a Sony A7-like Pentax MILC together with nice and compact limited lenses but also those heavy and fast f/1.4 lenses

[robthebloke]

If you use the equivalent ISO, F/1.8 on APS-C is neither better nor worse than F/2.8 on FF. The shutter speed would be the same.

That's quite obviously untrue. My 645 is a daytime camera, the k-5 comes out to play at night. You may get image equivalence at f2.8 to an f1.4, but f2.8 is f2.8 no matter what size your frame is.

*if* your larger frame camera has great high ISO performance, then yes the larger frame will be useful. In my case, my 645 maxes out at portra 800, which is also about as high as I'll go on the k-5. The 645z however blows that out the water (6400+ easily), but with the 645d you don't get the same ISO performance.

There is more to it than simply bigger sensor == better low light performance. The high ISO performance of the sensor is the important ingredient you are ignoring.

It's the same myth that the k-5 has better ISO performance than the k-3. It doesn't. K5ii maybe, but not the k5.

[ElJamoquio]

That's quite obviously untrue.

It's very clearly true in my experience (and bears out in objective testing).


If you have an APS-C camera at F/1.8, shutter speed of, say, 1/100, and ISO3200, the FF at F/2.8, shutter speed of, say, 1/100, and ISO6400 - the IQ will be within spitting distance of each other, assuming the sensor design is even reasonably close.

Your 645D is poor in low light because there isn't fast glass for the camera and it's an older CCD design; even though your camera design is 'only' 5 years old, the CCD sensor is more comparable to APS-C designs from a few years prior.

The CMOS design of the K-5 is still basically state of the art for CMOS, and CMOS is better than CCD at low light.


I didn't mention the sensor design here because a) I've mentioned it 500 times before, and b) in the context of an APS-C vs FF debate, both the APS-C and the FF, for 99% of cameras sold today, have sensor designs within spitting distance of each other anyway.

Comparing a 645D sensor technology to a K-3 or K-5 is similar to comparing a K-10 to the K-3 or K-5. It might be relevant to someone but it's an odd case to consider.

[Andi Lo]

To me it is rather telling that you want two different cameras, you probably dont really know what you want yet.

I think you should figure out why you want to buy the cameras in the first place, then choose accordingly based on that. They fulfill very different roles.

When I jumped to D600, the A7 wasn't even in the picture. It was between 6D and D600. The dual SD and the great deal on a refurb D600 sealed the deal. Today my only regret with going nikon is that they dont have a 135mm/2 option that I like, but I've been using the 70-200/2.8 to cover for that lack.

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Last edited by Andi Lo; 08-14-2014 at 10:42 AM.

[ElJamoquio]

You don't like the dc lens?

[Andi Lo]

You don't like the dc lens?

Too expensive and have alot of AF issues reported :/ I will try it one day, but it doesnt seem as foolproof as the Canon version, and the canon is $200 less. (edited the original post)

[ElJamoquio]

If I was a portrait guy, i'd love to try the DC lens. As is it's not enough of an improvement over a 70-200 for me.

[infoomatic]

so ... a few months later I can say I won't switch now, but wait for CP+. Now we have the Sony A7-II and this is a reason to even more lean towards Sony. I need full frame only for a part of maybe 10-20% of my pictures (however, the actual rate might change when I get one of those suckers ;-), so making all the switch to Nikon is probably "overhead". But let's see ... I will watch the price development and the announcements of Nikon and Sony on CP+ ... no hurry here because the first wedding is at the end of April.

[Sliver-Surfer]

you can get Sony A7 cheap you don't need to get the A7r . A7 is faster at processing multiple shots and quicker at AF. I have adapters for almost every system.
here is some of my A7 with adapted Pentax lenses.
K 1.2/50mm

K 1.2/50

Takumar-Bellows 4/100mm

Takumar 1.8/55mm

takumar 1.8/55mm

M 3.5/28mm

[ElJamoquio]

Nice pics.

[Sliver-Surfer]

Nice pics.

Thanks
Might I add there is a $35 adapter that allows you to use Minolta Digital flashes and Sony AM flashes uncrippled with HSS and PTTL. I use a Minolta hs 3600 D flash and a sony am compatible nissin wirelessly on mine.
Adapters I have and why I bought them(I see a cheap amazing lens in another mount and I buy it because I know there is an adapter out there for less than a Pork roast)
adapter ............................reason
M42 ........................obvious: Pentax/Takumars Kick A$$
M42/Tilt ................... "
M42/Helicoid ........... "
Pentax-K .................."
Nikon ....................... Cheap Nikon 2.5/105mm & 1.2/55mm
Canon FD ................ Cheap Vivitar Series 1 200mm 3.5
Canon EOS ..............Cheap 8m Rokinon $160 and 1.4/85mm Samyang $85
Canon EOS Heli........Close focusing with the above
Yashica .................... $40 Mint Tokina AT-X 2.8/80-200
Konica Hexanon .......Cheap and Legendary lenses
OM System...............Cheap Vivitar 24-70mm f/3.8-4.8 Series 1
average cost of the adapters $12 each

[lesmore49]

I've thought about going FF from my ASP-C Pentax system. The two I've thought about are Nikon....but the D 750 and the Sony A7...with a Novaflex adaptor for K mount...to use some of my Pentax lenses.

Nikon wise...the D750 is my choice over the D610. Know it's more pricey, but I like that movable monitor...have one on my Canon G 12...boy the different angles you can get....might help creativity with that movable monitor....something to consider for wedding pics.

Isn't it odd. A couple of years ago...the majority choice for FF, would of been the Canon 5D2....but now Nikon and Sony seem to have the appeal.

Don't get me wrong, I like Canon...have Canon equipment in addition to my Pentax, etc...stuff.

[ElJamoquio]

Canon makes some good equipment (particularly some of the lenses) but I hate their user interface and their sensors are the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if they were losing gads of market share in the mid-high level.

[Sliver-Surfer]

Canon makes some good equipment (particularly some of the lenses) but I hate their user interface and their sensors are the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if they were losing gads of market share in the mid-high level.

This doesn't help canon
Canon EF-S to Sony E mount Adapter Black Electronic Auto Focus Adapter Canon EOS EF S Lens TO Sony NEX A6000 A7 | eBay

[Raffwal]

Funnily, now that the FF Pentax might finally really, really be coming, I'm starting seriously to consider buying a FF camera of another brand! The thing is that it's looking that when Pentax finally releases the camera (by the end of the year?), they'll position it in the market way above what I'm willing to spend. They seem to be going to compete the D810 and the 5D Mk III and the camera being the first and then only K mount FF DSLR, they'll may price it even above the mentioned cameras. That is just too rich for my blood. Especially considering that cameras like a Sony A7 can be now bought for about 1000 €/$ and by the end of the year likely even less. An A7 might be just what I need to give my old Takumars a go on a FF camera.