[Christine Tham]

It forecasts that unit sales for Nikon for ILC will be down about 30% in 1st quarter 2015 from 2014, 1590 to 1100 (thousands)
Also sales in yen will be down about 29%.

This isn't compact cameras anymore, this is core ILC. yikes

They don't say whether the largest drop is in their entry level APS DSLRs or their FF DSLRs. or both. My impression was that Nikon went into their FF building program a few years back with the idea that the FF were going to be their insurance against drops in compact sales. But there still isn't forecasted any floor in DSLR sales. No wonder that Ricoh apparently isn't going to build a FF this year - i say apparently because of comments on PF.

That wasn't a forecast - it's actual results, as well as the 40% drop in operating income. Hence the title of my post "Sky is falling" :-(

I'm not gloating about this - it's a sad state of affairs for all camera lovers.

Here is a chart comparing Canon, Nikon, Sony stock price for 2014 - Canon and Sony are generally holding up, Nikon price has tanked by around 30%. People who think Sony is doing badly are actually reacting to old news or misreading/misunderstanding what they are reading - Sony stock actually doubled in 2012 and have more or less held their ground since - whilst the company isn't out of trouble yet things are clearly looking up.
https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&c...McqnkgW3-oDwCA

[philbaum]

That wasn't a forecast - it's actual results, as well as the 40% drop in operating income. Hence the title of my post "Sky is falling" :-(

I'm not gloating about this - it's a sad state of affairs for all camera lovers.

Here is a chart comparing Canon, Nikon, Sony stock price for 2014 - Canon and Sony are generally holding up, Nikon price has tanked by around 30%. People who think Sony is doing badly are actually reacting to old news or misreading/misunderstanding what they are reading - Sony stock actually doubled in 2012 and have more or less held their ground since - whilst the company isn't out of trouble yet things are clearly looking up.
https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&c...McqnkgW3-oDwCA

BTW, thanks for the information and clarification. I used the word forecast to refer to the 2015 1st qtr results in the charts :-)

[Christine Tham]

BTW, thanks for the information and clarification. I used the word forecast to refer to the 2015 1st qtr results in the charts :-)

I think you find the charts refer to 1st quarter for Financial Year 2015 (which is the period between April to June 2014) - ie. it's already happened, not a forecast.

Don't worry - confusion between financial and calendar years quite common - I do it all the time myself.

Nikon's actual forecast for the rest of FY2015 indicate a 16% drop in operating income, and only a slight reduction in sales.

I think they are being optimistic - clearly thinking the D600 issues are behind them and they will see a sales uplift from the D810.

[clackers]

If you actually believe what you say you should be cheering Sony for taking "drastic cost cutting" measures (PS - it's not that drastic - I happen to know Sony is actually hiring people) and selling assets so that they can "survive" and help make the camera industry a "competitive marketplace" :-).

You definitely don't try to understand, Christine ... I am in favour of the company thriving for exactly those reasons.


You, however, seem to be a Sony cheerleader, with your selective reporting of the corporation's troubles. And that's how you opened this thread - with Canon and Nikon's problems.


Anyone can make more money out of the same or declining sales if you fire 18,000 employees and sell the land under your company headquarters to your insurance subsidiary - but each of those is a one-off trick!


Sony Rides PS4 Sales, Web-Slinger to Surprise Profit - Bloomberg


and


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sony-warns-smartphone-weakness-brake-092908128.html


and from the previous quarter:


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2910ab10-db4f-11e3-94ad-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3AuBgANwA


for a fuller picture than you've painted.

---

Last edited by clackers; 08-19-2014 at 11:57 PM.

[Christine Tham]

You, however, seem to be a Sony cheerleader, with your selective reporting of the corporation's troubles. And that's how you opened this thread - with Canon and Nikon's problems.

Actually, if you did read my first post in FULL, I opened the thread with Canon Nikon AND Sony, and I even pointed out that Sony is reporting a 9% decline in sales. The title of my post "Sky is falling" actually referred to all three companies.

However, Nikon is suffering more than the other two because they are less diversified, plus their other two divisions are relatively small and making losses, so they have no offset against their imaging business.

Perhaps, rather than selectively quoting out of date articles, you could try and perhaps read my original post more carefully?

I am perhaps guilty of being a Sony cheerleader (I actually don't care, I am not an investor - I am a customer, but equally I am also a customer of Canon and Nikon).

But your posts are certainly not coming across as unbiased. Why draw erroneous and inaccurate conclusions from out of date posts?

For example, you mentioned selling the company headquarters twice now, with a tone that seem to indicate (to me at least, forgive me if that wasn't your intent) as if you think that's a negative.

To me, that's a positive. Any non-productive asset (such as company offices) is dead weight on the balance sheet and a drag on ROA. A well managed company should not be owning these assets in the first place, and if the company bought "vanity" assets out of corporate ego (Sony was definitely guilty in the past as are other companies), then selling them is definitely a good move, PROVIDED a fair price is obtained for those assets. It's not a one-off trick as you seem to think, it frees up valuable capital and improves ROA.

And if I can jog your memory on accounting principles, "one off tricks" are reported separately and do not count towards operating income, so to claim that Sony's results are due to these "tricks" is simply incorrect. Sony did say that they managed to offset the decline in sales by cutting costs, but that's not from layoffs, as restructuring costs are reported separately. Cutting costs could mean many things, including cutting back on marketing as well as closing down stores (both of which Sony have done).

If you had made similar comments about Canon or Nikon, I would have replied in the same manner.

If you are TRULY in favour of Sony "thriving" as you claim, then my suggestion is stop making up false claims and misrepresentations. Nobody else in this thread has done so except you. No one "wins" from wrong facts.

[philbaum]

I'm a Sony fan chiefly because recently they seem to not hesitate to bring new ideas to the camera marketplace. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the sensor supply for cameras are Sony. There are some camera sensor suppliers out there besides Sony, even with my limited knowledge:

Toshiba has supplied some to Nikon IRC
Samsung
Canon
Fuji (x-trans)

Are there others - i don't know.

[Christine Tham]

I'm a Sony fan chiefly because recently they seem to not hesitate to bring new ideas to the camera marketplace. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the sensor supply for cameras are Sony. There are some camera sensor suppliers out there besides Sony, even with my limited knowledge:

Nikon uses Sony, Toshiba, Aptina, I believe.

I probably shouldn't say this, but there will be some interesting things coming from Sony later this year. Not just cameras, but lenses and accessories. I think the A7 series was a bit of gamble for Sony, and it's paid off. Sony is quite keen on making it a complete system, especially since a few famous photographers have jumped ship to Sony. I think Colby Brown has all but officially announced he is moving to Sony (Colby - if you are reading this, apologies if you think I've jumped the gun).

[jogiba]

Nikon uses Sony, Toshiba, Aptina, I believe.

I probably shouldn't say this, but there will be some interesting things coming from Sony later this year. Not just cameras, but lenses and accessories. I think the A7 series was a bit of gamble for Sony, and it's paid off. Sony is quite keen on making it a complete system, especially since a few famous photographers have jumped ship to Sony. I think Colby Brown has all but officially announced he is moving to Sony (Colby - if you are reading this, apologies if you think I've jumped the gun).

"For me, the Sony a7r has replaced my Canon 5D Mark III, effectively being my go to camera for anything I am shooting from a tripod, which is much of my landscape and travel work. Not only has it allowed me to shave a few lbs off my camera backpack, but the sensor on this thing is incredible. The rear LCD does a great job, allowing me to manually dial in perfect focus (something I ALWAYS do when shooting from a tripod) in nearly any environment (including low light), given both its quality and articulating abilities. Lastly, having the opportunity to use Canon, Nikon, Sony, Zeiss and even Leica lenses opens up so many doors that were previously closed for photographers. That in itself is a game changer! "
An In-Depth Review of the Sony a7r | Colby Brown Photography

[Christine Tham]

"For me, the Sony a7r has replaced my Canon 5D Mark III, effectively being my go to camera for anything I am shooting from a tripod, which is much of my landscape and travel work. Not only has it allowed me to shave a few lbs off my camera backpack, but the sensor on this thing is incredible. The rear LCD does a great job, allowing me to manually dial in perfect focus (something I ALWAYS do when shooting from a tripod) in nearly any environment (including low light), given both its quality and articulating abilities. Lastly, having the opportunity to use Canon, Nikon, Sony, Zeiss and even Leica lenses opens up so many doors that were previously closed for photographers. That in itself is a game changer! "
An In-Depth Review of the Sony a7r | Colby Brown Photography

He also has the A7s, apparently taking it to Iceland next month for some astrophotography. Can't wait to see the results!

[clackers]

I am perhaps guilty of being a Sony cheerleader

Well, that's what I'm saying, Christine. *And* that led you to failing to describe properly Sony's problems (400% increase on past earnings, off such a low base? Not even the Sony PR department would attempt to say that with a straight face!)

This sort of stuff might go unchallenged by the fanbois on SonyAlphaLab or whatever, but that's not where we are.

For example, you mentioned selling the company headquarters twice now

I wasn't repeating myself, they are separate measures in different countries:

Sony sells its US headquarters | PCWorld

Sony to sell its Tokyo 'birthplace' in a desperate bid to raise cash | NDTV Gadgets

[Christine Tham]

*And* that led you to failing to describe properly Sony's problems

Maybe because I don't describe things that aren't true?

Still not quite sure what your motive is in continuing this conversation. What exactly are you hoping to achieve?

By the way, Sony's building in North Ryde is up for lease as well. However, I am failing to see exactly why selling non-productive assets is a "problem", as I pointed out earlier.

[Clavius]

You know, we keep hearing how stodgy and conservative Ricoh is. That they are not innovative and just resting on old technology.

Yet, every time they release a new product everyone says "What the heck, where did that come from...." They seem to be mastering the art of zigging when everyone else is zagging. Finding an unfulfilled niche and putting a product there.

1. Who expected the Q?
2. Who expected a professional level APS-C camera (k-3), when everyone was moaning they needed a FF?
3. Who expected the HD 20-40?
4. Who expected a big push into medium format, both body and lenses?
5. Who expected the Theta?
6. Who expected the DA Limiteds to be re-done with new coatings?

Which way are they going to zig next?

You make this sound as if Pentax ignoring its customers like that is a good thing. Imagine going to the farmacy, asking for your bloodpressure medicine, and the farmacist replying: "Sorry no, but here's some sunscreen lotion instead. No? Midol perhaps? Zoloft? Ohw, now I know: liquid strawberry flavoured antacid?" You'd think the man had gone completely bonkers.

The imaging industry is having a hard time because everybody that wants a camera, in whatever form, bought one in the past five years. I don't know anybody who doesn't have some form of entry level DSLR or other ILC at home. Most of them are not using them because their smartphone is 1. always with them and 2. is just good enough. Why would they upgrade? If anything they'll upgrade their phone.

Cameras just need to become a better photographic tool then smartphones again. All that extra resolution and sharpness in todays cameras is way to much for Facebook and coarse canvasses. Give the consumer something that really makes use of it so they can't just use their Iphone pics in it. A reason for lugging a big fat camera along instead of only the phone.

[jogiba]

Well, that's what I'm saying, Christine. *And* that led you to failing to describe properly Sony's problems (400% increase on past earnings, off such a low base? Not even the Sony PR department would attempt to say that with a straight face!)

This sort of stuff might go unchallenged by the fanbois on SonyAlphaLab or whatever, but that's not where we are.



I wasn't repeating myself, they are separate measures in different countries:

Sony sells its US headquarters | PCWorld

Sony to sell its Tokyo 'birthplace' in a desperate bid to raise cash | NDTV Gadgets

And what exactly does that have to do with the Sony full frame cameras that I have ?

[Christine Tham]

And what exactly does that have to do with the Sony full frame cameras that I have ?

LOL - what did you expect from someone who is linking to PCWorld and some unknown gadget site?

I wouldn't have considered them credible sources for tech news, let alone financial performance.

[jogiba]

LOL - what did you expect from someone who is linking to PCWorld and some unknown gadget site?

I wouldn't have considered them credible sources for tech news, let alone financial performance.

I agree, and BTW Sony made a $250 million profit in the last quarter and Amazon lost money so I guess Amazon is history.