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11-15-2014, 05:56 PM   #136
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I had the hood on but no uv filter. When those pics were taken it was very dark outside.

Also all the pics were camera jpegs. I'm not sure my copy of LR can handle the raw files.

As I said before I believe it did a lot better than my K5 would have done. Not sure if the K3 would have done as well or not.

11-15-2014, 07:08 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
I had the hood on but no uv filter. When those pics were taken it was very dark outside.
Interesting. I guess it's just a case of some angles of light inducing a bit of flare when shooting wide-open. It's certainly not visible all the time, and many lenses would probably flare worse under your shooting conditions.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
I believe it did a lot better than my K5 would have done. Not sure if the K3 would have done as well or not.
I'm pretty sure the K-5 or K-3 would not have done quite as well at high ISO. You have some shots at 12800 and maybe higher ISO that looked very clean, colourful and detailed, and shadow noise was almost not visible. The AF performance between the K-3 and the D750 in low-light with a fast lens might have been a draw though.
11-16-2014, 12:37 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Yet canikon haven't really innovated just evolved their current models. The D750 is just a D600 with a floppy screen and better AF matrix. The D810 improves on the 800.... Pentax at least try's to innovate.

I love my D800, I really do. But if I never bought it would I miss it compared to my Killer K3 setup? Probably not. The AF speed and flash sync are really the biggest drawbacks for me
That's... flat out untrue. See what i mean about people on these boards trying to take shots at canon/nikon? It seems like only a few people here have ever used said brands. I encourage you to actually check out them out. Ive had always dreamed of owning a nikon and it was amazing. NIkon cameras are miles more ergonomic than any pentax ive used. They just fit right into your hands whereas many pentax cameras seem like they werent designed to be held by a human hand.. The d750 is actually much closer to the d800. Pentax still no cameras with buit in wi fi. The only way to get wi fi is to spend additional money on a "flu card" (which sounds like it will make you sick) and then you're down to only a single card slot. Pentax still has no full frame either and if you want a high megapixels for printing large, i hope you have $8000+ sitting around for the 645z. I wouldn't call those mutli colored options on the k-30, etc. an innovation as some of the color combinations are pretty ugly imo. I just dont know what is going on with pentax's design. I mean, the k-01 wont exactly win any awards for design, and the k20s menus were pretty dated even for their time with confusing abbreviations. The k3 looks a little better but imho it still doesnt look like something that came out in 2013.

For all their innovations, pentax still lags behind canon/nikon/sony when it comes to things like af. I mean, do any pentax cameras have decent video autofocus?
11-16-2014, 12:54 AM   #139
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Nikon D750

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
That's... flat out untrue. See what i mean about people on these boards trying to take shots at canon/nikon? It seems like only a few people here have ever used said brands. I encourage you to actually check out them out. Ive had always dreamed of owning a nikon and it was amazing. NIkon cameras are miles more ergonomic than any pentax ive used. They just fit right into your hands whereas many pentax cameras seem like they werent designed to be held by a human hand.. The d750 is actually much closer to the d800. Pentax still no cameras with buit in wi fi. The only way to get wi fi is to spend additional money on a "flu card" (which sounds like it will make you sick) and then you're down to only a single card slot. Pentax still has no full frame either and if you want a high megapixels for printing large, i hope you have $8000+ sitting around for the 645z. I wouldn't call those mutli colored options on the k-30, etc. an innovation as some of the color combinations are pretty ugly imo. I just dont know what is going on with pentax's design. I mean, the k-01 wont exactly win any awards for design, and the k20s menus were pretty dated even for their time with confusing abbreviations. The k3 looks a little better but imho it still doesnt look like something that came out in 2013.



For all their innovations, pentax still lags behind canon/nikon/sony when it comes to things like af. I mean, do any pentax cameras have decent video autofocus?



Hahahahaha your opinions make me laugh.

I sold my D600 primarily because the camera ergonomics were pure crap. The grip was uncomfortable for extended periods and I absolutely needed the battery grip if I planned on shooting for more than an hour. It is probably the most uncomfortable camera I ever used. In addition the button placement was a complete joke compared to my K5 or K3. ISO being on a button to the lower left of the screen? What crap.

My D800 is substantially better for ergonomics, and once Nikon updated the firmware allowing you to set the ISO to the record button in stills mode it became almost perfect.


Pentax's main reason for lagging in AF is their autofocus motors. The SDM system is insanely slow. I haven't used the 20-40 yet so I cannot give feedback on its motor. But yes compared to Nikon the AF is brutally slow. But accuracy and tracking is catching up.

Full frame is not the be all end all and I wish people would stop thinking that it is. For concert photography or sports i actually enjoy using my K3 more due to the crop factor and the fact that I can still shoot at 2.8 without my depth of field getting too thin. I can use a lighter smaller lens and package to get the same reach as people using 35mm format. Not to mention the advantage of having in body stabilization so I don't go to monopod it for sports when I'm reaching 300mm+

If you need 36mp for big prints your doing it wrong. I have a sofa sized print in my living room that looks stunning even close up, and it was taken with my K5. Yes I had to do some enlarging magic and lower the dpi of the print. But it can be done and still look wonderful. My wedding photos were taken on a 16mp camera and the image above our bed which is a 36" print is tack sharp and beautiful.

The D750 grip doesn't feel too bad. It's a happy in between of the 600-800 series. However the button placement threw me for a loop in the store which is why I'm thinking my next Nikon will likely be an 810 as I don't want to have to retrain my brain swapping back and forth. I do enough of that swapping from my K3 to my D800.


When it comes to video yes, Pentax lags. However that being said my D800 sits in manual focus as well when I'm shooting video. It's just an easier and more reliable way to go instead of it going on the hunt here and there.


I still believe the k5 is the most comfortable camera I've ever used. Period. Your opinion obviously differs and that's okay. There are people out there that say the 5Dmk3 is the most comfortable camera...but I'd rather use a D600 than any Canon with the way they have the dials setup.


You can say all you want. I use my D800 and K3 all the time, and yes I do prefer the D800 for the majority of my work. But the D800 (and 35mm format in general) could give me the size and weight advantage in both body and lens. Not to mention speed... Then my K3 would be in trouble.


Last edited by Wired; 11-16-2014 at 01:01 AM.
11-16-2014, 03:33 AM   #140
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This is turning into a troll thread, but
QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
the k-01 wont exactly win any awards for design
I guess these two prestigious European design awards don't count?

K-01 Product Design winner at the 2012 red dot design awards
K-01 Gold prize at the German Design Award 2013
11-16-2014, 04:09 AM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
That's... flat out untrue. See what i mean about people on these boards trying to take shots at canon/nikon? It seems like only a few people here have ever used said brands. I encourage you to actually check out them out. Ive had always dreamed of owning a nikon and it was amazing. NIkon cameras are miles more ergonomic than any pentax ive used. They just fit right into your hands whereas many pentax cameras seem like they werent designed to be held by a human hand.. The d750 is actually much closer to the d800. Pentax still no cameras with buit in wi fi. The only way to get wi fi is to spend additional money on a "flu card" (which sounds like it will make you sick) and then you're down to only a single card slot. Pentax still has no full frame either and if you want a high megapixels for printing large, i hope you have $8000+ sitting around for the 645z. I wouldn't call those mutli colored options on the k-30, etc. an innovation as some of the color combinations are pretty ugly imo. I just dont know what is going on with pentax's design. I mean, the k-01 wont exactly win any awards for design, and the k20s menus were pretty dated even for their time with confusing abbreviations. The k3 looks a little better but imho it still doesnt look like something that came out in 2013.

For all their innovations, pentax still lags behind canon/nikon/sony when it comes to things like af. I mean, do any pentax cameras have decent video autofocus?
I get that you like your Nikon camera. I would say a few things. First of all, it is really tough to argue about ergonomics. Those are pretty individual specific things. I am pretty comfortable at this point with the K5/K3 body -- it hasn't changed a whole lot since the K7. When I've used Nikon gear, it felt a little clumsy in some ways, but I think I could get used to it.

With regard to menus, I don't understand why you keep harping on that. Menus are something that you use very occasionally. If you have to go menu diving a lot, then something is wrong with the camera interface. 95 percent of changes a photographer needs to make will be accessible within two button pushes on a Pentax camera. Anyway, I don't think menu design is a reason to buy or not buy a camera. It isn't even in the top ten reasons.

With regard to megapixels, Wired already answered you, but you can print pretty big already with 16 megapixels. 24 will get you a little bigger print, but the difference isn't huge.

Auto focus is fine for most things at this point, but not at sporting level, mainly due to the lack of really fast in lens motors. Probably a little better if you get Sigma HSM lenses, but SDM is just slow. That's all there is to it. I don't do much video. The K3 has auto focus in it, but it isn't great. My brother has a D7100 and it isn't great with auto focus in video either. Better to use manual focus if you are videoing in an SLR.

As to innovation, Nikon clearly has no idea what to do except to launch new full frame cameras. They currently have how many full frame models? 5? And they are scrambling to figure out how to deal with Sony, because everything Nikon has ever done with larger sensors is SLR related.

On the other hand, when it comes to entry and mid level cameras, Pentax has features that eat Nikon's lunch. Having in body stabilization, weather sealing, with cheap weather sealed lenses available, 100 percent penta prism viewfinders, better frame rates and deeper buffers on cameras like the K30 and K50 are features that Nikon and Canon never would put on lower end cameras, since they are reserved for the higher end classes. If someone asks me if they should get a D5300, a T5i, or a K50, I would recommend a K50 in a heart beat, as long as they aren't looking to move to full frame down the road. The comparison in features that photographers use is heavily weighted on the Pentax side.

Sorry to rant like this, but you don't have much experience with recent Pentax models and yet continue to attack them for your lousy experience with a K20.

Last edited by Rondec; 11-16-2014 at 05:45 AM.
11-16-2014, 07:44 AM   #142
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Here are some pics from Friday night. I posted large so you can get a good look at them. If for some reason you need to see them bigger go to Flickr.

Started off shooting around 5pm which is right at sunset. I started off using the 24-120 f4 kit lens.

This was shot using live view over the heads of the people in front of me:



I like the live view okay. It is not as smooth as using a mirror less camera. I never used the K5s live view so I didn't know how much different a DSLR does live view. Still it is handy to have the screen for when you need to get a different angle.

Noice the top corners in this pic. I think that is the lens hood or else some severe vignetting. Either way it is a problem. I am going to stop using the hood on the kit lens to see if that helps.



This pic shows how dark it was. Even in this low light the AF was working pretty well on stationary subjects. Moving subjects were a bit more difficult but still had success.



After it got so dark I switched to the 50 1.8 shot wide open:



The lanterns had a single tea light candle in them:







I am pretty pleased with how the camera performed under difficult conditions. All the pics are uncropped SOOC jpegs with minimal PP in LR. I have shot this event in previous years with my K5 and K-01 and it was much more difficult and getting focus was challenging to say the least.

I'm still not sure I will keep the D750. I love the camera but the price is pretty high.

11-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #143
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Great photo report. Thank you for taking the time to post your experience of the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Noice the top corners in this pic. I think that is the lens hood or else some severe vignetting. Either way it is a problem.
Welcome to full-frame!! Vignetting like that is a feature, not a bug It's not the hood.

I've used the same lens on a D610. Normally the camera will auto-correct for vignetting in your JPEGs, if you want it to. And the lens profiles for FF in Lightroom/DxO/C1 etc will try and do the same thing for your RAW's. The vignetting cleans up easily.

Lenstip shows quite a lot of vignetting for that lens (-1.6EV), but it goes away quickly once stopped down a bit.

11-16-2014, 09:38 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Here are some pics from Friday night. I posted large so you can get a good look at them. If for some reason you need to see them bigger go to Flickr.

Started off shooting around 5pm which is right at sunset. I started off using the 24-120 f4 kit lens.

I am pretty pleased with how the camera performed under difficult conditions. All the pics are uncropped SOOC jpegs with minimal PP in LR. I have shot this event in previous years with my K5 and K-01 and it was much more difficult and getting focus was challenging to say the least.

I'm still not sure I will keep the D750. I love the camera but the price is pretty high.
You're comparing a D750 at $2500 with a camera that I paid $300 for with a 40XS. SO modern technology for the Nikon to 2 generations ago for the Pentaxes. Did you ever try a K-3?

But thanks for posting, it's all good.
11-16-2014, 12:16 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You're comparing a D750 at $2500 with a camera that I paid $300 for with a 40XS. SO modern technology for the Nikon to 2 generations ago for the Pentaxes. Did you ever try a K-3?

But thanks for posting, it's all good.
No I haven't really tried a K-3 besides briefly handling one at B&H last summer.

Hey I know it is not really a fair comparison but it is what I have. Are you that surprised that the latest Nikon FF did so well? I'm not. The question really is if the Nikon is worth the cost? I took my chance to try the D750 for two months. It is not like I really need a FF camera.
11-16-2014, 02:20 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
It is not like I really need a FF camera.
Mr Bassie.....I've seen plenty of your shots posted here...all you need is the X30, it works wonders in your hands. Get rid of that big bulky box and spend more time X30 shooting......and yes, the X30 will focus in near total darkness...and with Pro Low Light get you a very decent shot!

Regards!
11-16-2014, 07:16 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Hey I know it is not really a fair comparison but it is what I have. Are you that surprised that the latest Nikon FF did so well? I'm not. The question really is if the Nikon is worth the cost? I took my chance to try the D750 for two months. It is not like I really need a FF camera.
If you have the disposable income why not? If you don't, then I agree - feeding yourself and/or your family is more important.

My own thinking on this (completely hypothetical - I have not used the D600, D750 or K-3 but I had held all three in my hot little paws and fondled them a bit) is I would prefer the K-3 over the D-6XX, but I think I might prefer the D750 over the K-3. The real answer is I won't go for any of them, since I will never ever use a DSLR in my life again.

Of course, the real question to Pentax owners is: is it enough to make the switch from Pentax to Nikon? I would argue not, particularly if there is an existing investment in Pentax lenses.
11-16-2014, 08:26 PM   #148
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edit: turned out to be much longer than i anticipated. whoops i guess i got carried away.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I sold my D600 primarily because the camera ergonomics were pure crap. The grip was uncomfortable for extended periods and I absolutely needed the battery grip if I planned on shooting for more than an hour. It is probably the most uncomfortable camera I ever used. In addition the button placement was a complete joke compared to my K5 or K3. ISO being on a button to the lower left of the screen? What crap.
I suggest you watch digital rev tv's review of the pentax k-r. Every pentax i owned was so akward to hold. They clearly werent even designed to be held by a human being. Pentax has a thing for very angular designs (for example the k3) which doesnt really lend itself to good ergonomics. Pentax makes their grips deeper it seems with every camera but they dont understand that ergonomics is not something you can put a number on.

In fact, pentax doesnt really have a good grasp of anything that you can't put a number on it. The aesthetics are just way off, from the boxy k3 to the hasbro toy color combos on the k30.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Pentax's main reason for lagging in AF is their autofocus motors. The SDM system is insanely slow. I haven't used the 20-40 yet so I cannot give feedback on its motor. But yes compared to Nikon the AF is brutally slow. But accuracy and tracking is catching up.
Not to mention that their af is some of the noisiest, unrefined stuff i have ever seen in a camera. My k20 honestly sounded like a japanese robot or something then i autofocused. And so jerky. The af on the entry level t3i's that i borrowed one day in class ate it alive.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Full frame is not the be all end all and I wish people would stop thinking that it is. For concert photography or sports i actually enjoy using my K3 more due to the crop factor and the fact that I can still shoot at 2.8 without my depth of field getting too thin. I can use a lighter smaller lens and package to get the same reach as people using 35mm format. Not to mention the advantage of having in body stabilization so I don't go to monopod it for sports when I'm reaching 300mm+
The af is just flat out primitive compared to canon/nikon/sony. It's like the af is 90s technology or something.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Full frame is not the be all end all and I wish people would stop thinking that it is. For concert photography or sports i actually enjoy using my K3 more due to the crop factor and the fact that I can still shoot at 2.8 without my depth of field getting too thin. I can use a lighter smaller lens and package to get the same reach as people using 35mm format. Not to mention the advantage of having in body stabilization so I don't go to monopod it for sports when I'm reaching 300mm+
It means better quality, stunning images. In many, cases, it was the only way i could get the shots i wanted due to the low light performance. I was blown away by the full frame images from people in my class. For what I do, portraits and low light it is amazing, a godsend.. For the love of god, i will never understand why pentax has written it off. I mean, going with pentax is kind of like saying i want this company to make my choice for me. Nikon/canon/sony/etc let you chose whatever you want, whether its full frame, bridge or mirrorless. Nikon alone has a huge lineup of cameras, where as pentax continues to compete on the cheap.




QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
If you need 36mp for big prints your doing it wrong. I have a sofa sized print in my living room that looks stunning even close up, and it was taken with my K5. Yes I had to do some enlarging magic and lower the dpi of the print. But it can be done and still look wonderful. My wedding photos were taken on a 16mp camera and the image above our bed which is a 36" print is tack sharp and beautiful.
I dont need 36 megapixels but... 36 mp printed at large size will always look better than... 16. If you're willing to settle for less but but there are far better options. out there. With higher megapixels comes higher dpi.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
With regard to menus, I don't understand why you keep harping on that. Menus are something that you use very occasionally. If you have to go menu diving a lot, then something is wrong with the camera interface. 95 percent of changes a photographer needs to make will be accessible within two button pushes on a Pentax camera. Anyway, I don't think menu design is a reason to buy or not buy a camera. It isn't even in the top ten reasons.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
With regard to menus, I don't understand why you keep harping on that. Menus are something that you use very occasionally. If you have to go menu diving a lot, then something is wrong with the camera interface. 95 percent of changes a photographer needs to make will be accessible within two button pushes on a Pentax camera. Anyway, I don't think menu design is a reason to buy or not buy a camera. It isn't even in the top ten reasons.
Let's not forget i used to shoot on a pentax and i found the menus to be very clumsy and antiquated with confusing, meaningless abbreviations... Never mind that i couldn't even understand half of the menu items on the settings page on the k20. I dont use the menus alot but i actually do find myself using them a bit more on a nikon not out of necessity because they are are actually clear and intuitive. Im not overly fond of the controls on pentax cameras either. Everyone once in awhile you will need to go into the menus and i find the menu's on pentax cameras to be an eye sore. I mean, i dont know how pentax came up with this. It's... not exactly great looking



Literally looks like it was designed by a high schooler taking their first design class or something.. Nikon/canons//sony are just more modern and refined. Pentax seems to never have one camera where they get everything right (the k3 is the closest but there is the weak af.) Even with the 645z, you have an $8000 camera that essentially suffers from false advertising. The much advertised "first medium format camera to have a movie mode" is essentially useless for serious work as your true exposure isnt show until you start recording.. This is just so dumb on their part. They basically shot themselves in the foot here.



QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
On the other hand, when it comes to entry and mid level cameras, Pentax has features that eat Nikon's lunch. Having in body stabilization, weather sealing, with cheap weather sealed lenses available, 100 percent penta prism viewfinders, better frame rates and deeper buffers on cameras like the K30 and K50 are features that Nikon and Canon never would put on lower end cameras, since they are reserved for the higher end classes. If someone asks me if they should get a D5300, a T5i, or a K50, I would recommend a K50 in a heart beat, as long as they aren't looking to move to full frame down the road. The comparison in features that photographers use is heavily weighted on the Pentax side.
Yet, nikons are contoured for the human hand, not a giant lego man as the drtv review notes. Pentax has no entry level camera that has 24 megapixels. The d5300 has much better battary life (even the d3100 does), better af, and awesome video. I doubt an entry level shooter would want to go out and shoot in the rain anyway. Oh and better dynamic range. And you can shoot around 100 shots in continuous shooting mode. A beginner isnt going to have any use for raw. A quick google search turns up 30 shots for continuous shooting on the k50. Oh thats less then the nikon. Show me a pentax that can do this

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristineTham:
Of course, the real question to Pentax owners is: is it enough to make the switch from Pentax to Nikon? I would argue not, particularly if there is an existing investment in Pentax lenses.
I think it's worth it for a lot of the people here to look at it. There is alot that makes a good camera that cant be put into numbers. When i switched, it changed things for me in so many ways and ive never looked back. A lot of the frustrations were just left behind. A lot of what makes a camera fun to shoot is in the usability. I love shooting with my d600. Simplicity is bliss. It really is. I have never found myself staring down at making a frowny face during a shoot. Everthing just falls into place and it's made my life so much better. If you are interested in shooting video, its kind of a no brainer too, as pentax's video is still kind of like its still kind of in the bronze age compared to the big names. I've pushed my photography farther than i ever thought possible with nikon and it's involved so much less frustration. Pentax has always seemed it was a little reluctant to part with it's history, in that it's cameras have a very 80s feel to them. Technology has come a long ways in the last few years and it's also gotten so much easier to use (atleast the majority of it) and this is just something that i dont see a whole lot from pentax. Their cameras still have those odd quirks to them that make things harder than they need to be. In the 90s, there wasnt really such a thing as usability on a digital camera. People didn't care how it looked. People were just amazed that you could take pictures digitally. Pentax doesnt seem to want to let go of their roots and i think it's holding them back.

Pentax still has very sub part marketting if you didnt have an internet connection, you probably wouldn't even know they exist. If you have a question about your camera or simply need to buy a new one, you can just go to your local camera store. My local one offers a whole range of services of the big brands, but they dont even sell pentax and i would have a hard time finding one that does. If i were to have an issue with my pentax, there isnt really any easy options available for me. I would probably have to send it in which could take weeks.. Going mainstream has a bunch of pretty significant advantages. I mean, as someone who is interested in video, there is a pretty big community of nikon video shooters who can help me out here.

Last edited by neostyles; 11-16-2014 at 08:51 PM.
11-16-2014, 08:31 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
make the switch from Pentax to Nikon
It's not always a case of an either/or switch, of course. There's often a degree of complementarity between systems, whether they be FF or not. FF for wide and low-light, APS-C for tele, 1 inch for P&S, one brand for video, mirrorless vs OVF for reasons etc.

Unfortunately, no camera maker has completely taken care of every single photographer's needs in just one camera body or system (yet ).
11-16-2014, 08:41 PM   #150
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You site DRTV as your source for ergonomics? I would rather listen to Ken Rockwell.

Pentax may not be comfortable to you. But I find the complete opposite. Let's look at two direct competitors for their time... The K5 and D7000. In my honest opinion the D7000 grip was too shallow and the distance between the grip and lens mount too close which made it very uncomfortable for me. You can't argue comfort with someone when it comes to their preferences because it's just their preference. There is no cold hard fact of what makes something more comfortable than another. This same logic could be applied for the comfort of ones bed, desk chair, computer mouse and keyboard.... There is no be all end all.


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What camera was that shot with. You seem collection in my signature, which camera was used?


Don't get me wrong, I love my D800. But there is much more wrong with Nikon and much less wrong with Pentax. Especially if your comparing to the K20D!!!

Have you used the K3? I was shooting with both it and my D800 today during a fashion shoot. With the dim lights only being provided by the modelling lamps the K3 locked in focus quicker when both were using screw drive lenses. In fact my D800 kept hunting using my 135 2.0 DC, yet the same lighting conditions and the K3 with FA 77 locked on almost instantly.

AF noise? Really? Most of Nikons lenses are motors in the lens and yes are very quick and quiet. SDM in Pentax is also pretty quiet, just not very fast. Guess what... If you use a screw drive lens one either camera they are both incredibly noisy...just so happens a very large selection of Pentax glass is screw drive...

What menu diving do you need to do? I rarely need to dive in either system. Pretty much only for video.

The GUI is dated. But it works and is well organized. Not as organized as Nikon, but pretty good none the less. But I don't care how the menus look. I care how my images look. This is why I spent my day shooting for 8 hours instead of watching DRev
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