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05-20-2015, 06:42 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
80 percent out of focus shots? You must have a really poor copy of the K3. Either that or you are exaggerating. Certainly tracking will be better with a D750, but with standard AF-S the K3 is excellent and produces nice sharp photos.
Neither. I was writing in regard to AF.C tracking in the Z-axis and fps - that the K3's AF.S is superb is granted, it really does great in this regard. Tracking a subject on the z-axis, not so much. That is my experience and it has been mentioned in reviews like the one by DPReview. And the 80% waste rate is pretty accurate for anything moving towards you at faster than moderate walking pace.

05-20-2015, 07:15 AM   #422
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I don't understand all this K-3 AF-C FUD. '80% waste rate even at walking speed' is pure bull.

Z-axis tracking is fine, even with slow AF lenses like the DA*300. Pic related.


Day 3 - Car 0 - Happy Valley stage

I once shot shot fast rally cars coming directly at me, or sideways past me, for three straight days and 90% of the shots were sharp and in-focus. It's the same story with rodeo too, with bulls and horses regularly charging crazily directly at camera ...


Yellow chaps 5

To get OK results you simply need some experience with the camera and it's AF-C complexities.

Nikon's AF-C, at least in cameras like the D610 that I have used a lot, is a more mature system, but not significantly better than what the K-3 has. Use the wrong setting with a Nikon, even at 'walking speed', and 80% of your shots could end up in the trash too.
05-20-2015, 07:18 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
... That is my experience and it has been mentioned in reviews like the one by DPReview. And the 80% waste rate is pretty accurate for anything moving towards you at faster than moderate walking pace.
Exactly how often do you shoot with subject moving towards you at faster rate or even walking toward you? For me, less than 1%..... I shoot events and stage photos... I think I need a D750, otherwise, my photos are going to be bad... 80% out of focus..... ;D

Last edited by aleonx3; 05-20-2015 at 07:26 AM.
05-20-2015, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Exactly how often do you shoot with subject moving towards you at faster rate or even walking toward you? For me, less than 1%..... I shoot events and stage photos...
Not regularly, because it simply doesn't work well on the K3 Other than that any sports and action shooter will have subjects coming towards him/her on a very regular basis. For me personally it was relevant in the past when trying to shoot basketball, when I shot a Holi festival with people chasing each other with bags of colour and on other, similar occasions. In the near future it will become relevant for me when I'm going on Safari to Namibia and want to take pictures of moving wildlife. And I'm not even a dedicated action shooter.

My comment was in reply to someone praising the higher fps in burst mode of the K3 compared to the D750 and D610, and if we're being honest here such high fps are almost exclusively relevant to sports and action photography. Which is not the K3's strength because of the sub-par AF.C performance.

I'm a Pentaxian and love my K3 for so many reasons, but I'm also a relatively unbiased and rational person and as such I can acknowledge the weaknesses there are.

05-20-2015, 07:48 AM   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Not regularly, because it simply doesn't work well on the K3 Other than that any sports and action shooter will have subjects coming towards him/her on a very regular basis. For me personally it was relevant in the past when trying to shoot basketball, when I shot a Holi festival with people chasing each other with bags of colour and on other, similar occasions. In the near future it will become relevant for me when I'm going on Safari to Namibia and want to take pictures of moving wildlife. And I'm not even a dedicated action shooter.

My comment was in reply to someone praising the higher fps in burst mode of the K3 compared to the D750 and D610, and if we're being honest here such high fps are almost exclusively relevant to sports and action photography. Which is not the K3's strength because of the sub-par AF.C performance.

I'm a Pentaxian and love my K3 for so many reasons, but I'm also a relatively unbiased and rational person and as such I can acknowledge the weaknesses there are.
While I have no doubt that D750 will do much better than k-3 in AF-C area. But in real world experience, this does not represent a majority of the people using these cameras. I often shoot along side with D810 and 5DMK II users in these events and stage photos, my photos are no less accurately focussed than any of them, in fact often with higher success rate and more photos; Perhaps, I am lucky that I have a better k-3 than yours.
05-20-2015, 07:55 AM - 1 Like   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Not regularly, because it simply doesn't work well on the K3 Other than that any sports and action shooter will have subjects coming towards him/her on a very regular basis. For me personally it was relevant in the past when trying to shoot basketball, when I shot a Holi festival with people chasing each other with bags of colour and on other, similar occasions. In the near future it will become relevant for me when I'm going on Safari to Namibia and want to take pictures of moving wildlife. And I'm not even a dedicated action shooter.

My comment was in reply to someone praising the higher fps in burst mode of the K3 compared to the D750 and D610, and if we're being honest here such high fps are almost exclusively relevant to sports and action photography. Which is not the K3's strength because of the sub-par AF.C performance.

I'm a Pentaxian and love my K3 for so many reasons, but I'm also a relatively unbiased and rational person and as such I can acknowledge the weaknesses there are.
There are a number of cameras that have super-high frame rates, but not with tracking. I have been told that these are useful in situations where you can prefocus on an area and then capture the image.

I wouldn't think you would have trouble on a safari. Most of the wildlife isn't going to be moving that fast towards you.
05-20-2015, 07:55 AM   #427
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I hate these conversations, to me it just shows pure ignorance in the knowledge of "how things work". Norm posted a reply to me some months back that best explained my complaint about the AF system on Pentax compared to that on Nikon's top cameras and others in that range.

It is a basic fact that is so damn simple it isn't even funny to go beyond it......You get what you pay for! (I knew that already, but thanks Norm for reminding me I was sounding like an idiot!) You do not get a Lamborghini when you buy a Mustang...or even a Corvette. How hard is that to understand? Apparently it is out of the bounds of reason and common sense for some to not expect your new Mustang to perform like a Lamborghini???

Does that mean a Mustang is not great, and great fun too? No, it just means you can do a lot of what that Lamborghini can do for a tiny fraction of the cost. Still not satisfied? Well Henry...go get yourself a Lamborghini...and hope the hell you can drive it without the 80% bad results the Mustang gave you.

Anyone ever think about this? Today you can buy a new K3 AND the new Pentax 150-450 lens for about the same price as a Nikon D750...body only. Will there be a big difference? Yep, there sure as hell will! You can get some fantastic shots with the K3+Pentax 150-450...but with the Nikon you still won't have a lens! Of course you can hold the body in your hands and talk about how fast it is, how superb it is, and how much better it is than an old inferior Pentax!

Regards!

05-20-2015, 08:22 AM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I hate these conversations, to me it just shows pure ignorance in the knowledge of "how things work". Norm posted a reply to me some months back that best explained my complaint about the AF system on Pentax compared to that on Nikon's top cameras and others in that range.

It is a basic fact that is so damn simple it isn't even funny to go beyond it......You get what you pay for! (I knew that already, but thanks Norm for reminding me I was sounding like an idiot!) You do not get a Lamborghini when you buy a Mustang...or even a Corvette. How hard is that to understand? Apparently it is out of the bounds of reason and common sense for some to not expect your new Mustang to perform like a Lamborghini???

Does that mean a Mustang is not great, and great fun too? No, it just means you can do a lot of what that Lamborghini can do for a tiny fraction of the cost. Still not satisfied? Well Henry...go get yourself a Lamborghini...and hope the hell you can drive it without the 80% bad results the Mustang gave you.

Anyone ever think about this? Today you can buy a new K3 AND the new Pentax 150-450 lens for about the same price as a Nikon D750...body only. Will there be a big difference? Yep, there sure as hell will! You can get some fantastic shots with the K3+Pentax 150-450...but with the Nikon you still won't have a lens! Of course you can hold the body in your hands and talk about how fast it is, how superb it is, and how much better it is than an old inferior Pentax!

Regards!
The other thing to remember is that for someone like me, an automatic mustang will probably end up out performing a standard transmission lamborghini. It just takes technical skill to operate a high end model. Even a K3 has a lot of tweaking that can be done to make things better or worse.
05-20-2015, 08:32 AM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
It is a basic fact that is so damn simple it isn't even funny to go beyond it......You get what you pay for!
Of course, I believe everyone here is aware of this fact. The whole discussion just started when someone mentioned the K3's higher frame rate as an advantage over the D750, and I simply pointed out that there is not much of a practical advantage because the AF.C cannot keep up with it. I never blamed the K3 for not delivering the same AF.C performance as a competitor twice as expensive.
05-20-2015, 09:56 AM   #430
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Wasn't picking on you at all Mr Fox (although Otis has zero use for foxes!) I was pointing out an often overlooked fact about camera buying and photo shooting.
"Henry" often fails to realize that money almost always plays a role in the performance of most items.

Your statement most likely has at least some real validity.....but I do think the K3 can do better than the 80% because my lowly K5IIs surely does.

I'm not a fanboy, I won't lay down in the dirt and die for Pentax...or any other brand of anything, but having been given many choices over the years Pentax has been a good choice for me...and a reasonable value. Their improvements, though they could come a little faster at times, have certainly met or exceeded my expectations.

I started with the DS years ago, went on to the successors as they came along......and though the DS was a great camera delivering me much pleasure, it could never do this like my K5IIs handles easily. The entire camera industry has changed in our favor.....and Pentax has certainly not been left out of those changes.

Just saw him land on the tree...only had a second....picked up the K5IIs with the Bigma mounted,took off the lens cap, pointed in AF-S and it locked instantly...even in low light with the big slow Bigma. Pulled the trigger when I heard the beep...almost instantly...good enough for an old squirrel shooter!

Af-S @ 500mm F7.1 1/200 ISO 6400 -Handheld...Let's don't forget who has SR and who doesn't!


Sure, there are better cameras, and I can afford any of them...but I like my Pentax cameras and gear, it treats me right and saves me cash ....$500. for the K5IIs brand new...I had to put on a bandana to cover my face when I ordered it...I felt like a damn thief!

Best Regards!
05-20-2015, 01:03 PM   #431
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Mr Bassie, you are a man of many cameras, and I sure wouldn't argue with you...your work is superb. People need to get what suits them, and that's what you do...I wish everyone would..or could...do that instead of moaning that their Mustang is inferior.

Thanks on the Woody shot...it was some good luck just to see him in time to get a shot. Otis says it was a total waste of card space, if I had looked to the left or right I could have shot a few dozen handsome squirrels instead.
Regards!

Just to keep the peace with Otis...here is a young Newbie squirrel.......I've been noticing all the Newbie squirrels look an awful lot like Otis????

05-20-2015, 01:47 PM   #432
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Is the frame rate important?

AFS, shutter priority, highest frame rate wins... this is a k-3, a D750 would have been better, all four images taken in the same second on my cameras timer, a D750 would have needed a 600mm lens.









Damn straight a high FPS counts for something. You'd be missing a frame with D610, D810, K-5 or D7200, you'd gain one with a D750. Lets stick to discussing what we've learned with our cameras, not what we think we know. On this forum, there's always someone who does what you say is frivolous, with good results.

Last edited by normhead; 05-20-2015 at 02:45 PM.
05-20-2015, 01:59 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I guess you missed my point. You can take nearly any photo with full frame that you can take with APS-C.
Actually, that's not quite true, although I get what you are trying to say, and on the most part you are correct.

When I started photography, a 35mm camera (that I could actually afford) had a max shutter speed of 1/500s, maybe 1/1000s on an enthusiast model. I remember when a 1/2000s model came out. It was a big deal.

Believe me, there were lots of photos that simply could not be taken on those cameras.

The sort of specs we see on cameras these days were completely unimaginable back then.

Even so, I am acutely aware of camera limitations when I take a photo, and I compose accordingly. I wouldn't necessarily use a full frame camera on a photo that requires high DOF, especially in a low light situation where I also need speed. I would say 50% of my composition decision is already made before I step out the door, because I have chosen a body and lens. I will naturally gravitate towards compositions that flatter that combo. The reverse also applies - I decide what sort of pictures I will take, and choose the appropriate body and lens.

I try not to take my entire kit with me (in my case that would be impossible, I own probably a dozen bodies and over 50 lenses). I used to, but I find changing bodies and lenses in the field to be a nightmare.
05-20-2015, 02:11 PM   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Actually, that's not quite true, although I get what you are trying to say, and on the most part you are correct.

When I started photography, a 35mm camera (that I could actually afford) had a max shutter speed of 1/500s, maybe 1/1000s on an enthusiast model. I remember when a 1/2000s model came out. It was a big deal.

Believe me, there were lots of photos that simply could not be taken on those cameras.

The sort of specs we see on cameras these days were completely unimaginable back then.

Even so, I am acutely aware of camera limitations when I take a photo, and I compose accordingly. I wouldn't necessarily use a full frame camera on a photo that requires high DOF, especially in a low light situation where I also need speed. I would say 50% of my composition decision is already made before I step out the door, because I have chosen a body and lens. I will naturally gravitate towards compositions that flatter that combo. The reverse also applies - I decide what sort of pictures I will take, and choose the appropriate body and lens.

I try not to take my entire kit with me (in my case that would be impossible, I own probably a dozen bodies and over 50 lenses). I used to, but I find changing bodies and lenses in the field to be a nightmare.
That's an incredibly important point... when you walk out the door with a camera in your hand, you've already made a pile of decisions. When I take my Sigma DP2, I'm shooting landscapes. When I take my K-01, I'm shooting wide angle to normal. When I take my K-3 I'm shooting wildlife and possibly landscape. When I take my K-5 Im shooting landscape. And my brain knows what camera it has in it's hand and only looks for those pictures.

Now if you were going back to the D750, my point would be, it's like a K-3 only better, except for you need longer lenses. But it's an excellent do everything kind of camera, leaning towards action. Like the K-3 landscape isn't it's strong point, unless you're comparing it to something like 6D. But from my perspective, it's an excellent do everything camera. If you're only going to carry one system, money aside, I'd put it right up there in K-3 land, and it should appeal to the same type of user. People like me will go with the K-3 because it's cheaper, others will have other priorities that put the D750 top of the list.


It seems odd to me that K-3 users would criticize the D750... it's a K-3 on Steroids.

Last edited by normhead; 05-20-2015 at 02:16 PM.
05-20-2015, 03:59 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
The K3 was simply unable to keep anything in proper focus that was coming towards it at faster than walking pace, no matter which AF point was selected, which hold status etc.

I like you a lot, FMF, but either your technique or execution is horribly wrong.


I use the lesser Pentax K-30 and K-S1 for shooting sports, including cricket and football.


The subjects in these photos are approaching the camera at much faster than walking pace - the top one about 10-15 kmh and the bottom about 40-50 kmh (time trial by professionals).





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