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11-10-2014, 04:15 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Going full frame has completely changed how i look at photography.
Glad you are finding the format so enthralling.

My first camera was a full frame ... 37 years ago. I was part of the photography club at high school - we had our own darkroom and the school supplied the chemicals for the processing, but we had to buy our own film and paper.

I used to run around on just a 50mm lens too, with ISO 100 film (ISO 400 if I wanted to do "action" or "low light" - LOL). I remember buying ISO 1000 film once and thinking I was very wicked. I never carried a tripod, most photographers found creative ways to steady the camera for long exposures lasting up to a few seconds. Tripods were really heavy back then - you do not carry them unless you were doing something special.

Having shot with various "digital" full frames (including Canon 1DS, D800), I don't really enjoy the weight and size compared to what I had back then. I suspect from your post that you are young, therefore you probably don't mind the weight. Those of us who are slightly older do. I know at least three people (coincidentally all of them owning D800) that have stopped using DSLRs because they developed issues. One had a shoulder and upper arm pain that took over 6 months to heal, another developed muscular arthritis, ... In all three cases their doctors advised them to stop using their cameras. Just remember, you won't be young forever.

Also please forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm for the "freaking awesome" dynamic range. With current generation bodies, the difference is not night and day. Even the K5 had more than enough dynamic range for what I need. Highlight and shadow recovery is great, but if you are doing that all the time then maybe you need to reconsider why you need to do it so often. And if you are not, then you don't need the dynamic range.

11-10-2014, 04:19 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Heh thats just like me. I used to shoot with a K20 but then i got my d600 and never looked back I loved the size of my d600. My K20 was quite a bit too small for my massive hands :P Pentax was my first camera that i used, my training wheels if you will. It was with me when i was learning all the basics of photogaphy so i guess it will always kind of have a place in my heart. Im never gonna forget that time i went to sf to do an assignment with my friends and out of no where it started raining. I was using an ist ds at the time and, even though it wasnt technically weather sealed (as far as i know, i could be wrong), it pulled through like a trooper. Got all my pics done and continued doing shoots with that camera for a few months afterwards.


Couldnt disagree more. Going full frame has completely changed how i look at photography. Where before i would have to take a bulky tripod, to get the shot, my d600 and my 50mm is all i need. I can do alot of the shots hand held that i would have otherwise needed a triod for. . Now, i may have my pentax to thank for this as i got quite a bit of practice doing handhed shots at 1/4 second. I think i even did some 1 second exposures. Plus, the extra dynamic range is freaking awesome! To this day, im still amazed by what i can get out of the raw files.
Your experience is interesting, if a little odd. There is one stop difference between the D600 and current gen APS-C cameras when it comes to dynamic range and high iso performance. Probably your skills have improved over time, as I don't imagine that difference to be that significant in real world shooting.

On the other hand, if you are comparing performance between the K20 and D600, it is understandable that you would be impressed by the difference, although it isn't exactly a fair comparison.
11-10-2014, 07:54 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
My impression was that it was about the same size as K5 but I wasn't comparing it side by side either. Which is pretty good considering it's full frame.

It is going to look big compared to an A7 though.

Full frame is a lot of fun, but at the end of the day I think APS-C is the sweet spot. Problem with full frame is the size and weight of lenses. The shallower DOF and slightly better performance/resolution isn't really worth it IMHO.

The D750 is a little bigger than the K5:

Pentax K-5 is 7% (9.5 mm) narrower and 14% (16 mm) shorter than Nikon D750.
Pentax K-5 is 6% (5 mm) thinner than Nikon D750.
Pentax K-5 [740 g] weights 12% (100 grams) less than Nikon D750 [840 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).

- See more at: Compare camera dimensions side by side
11-10-2014, 09:48 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
The D750 is a little bigger than the K5
There is not much between the slightly larger K-3 and the D750, however, even though the D750 has a flippy screen.

It's interesting to watch the extent to which even conventional full-frames like the D750 are shrinking to the point where APS-C bodies are losing their 'compact light-weight' advantage.



Nikon D750 is 7% (9 mm) wider and 13% (13 mm) taller than Pentax K-3.
Nikon D750 is 1% (0.5 mm) thicker than Pentax K-3.
Nikon D750 [840 g] weights 5% (40 grams) more than Pentax K-3 [800 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card).

Nikon D750 dimensions: 140.5x113x78 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)
Pentax K-3 dimensions: 131.5x100x77.5 mm (camera body only, excluding protrusion)

Camerasize.com comparison

11-10-2014, 11:49 AM   #110
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Thanks for the camera size/weight comparisons guys - I really must use that site more often.

I didn't realise the K-3 is bigger and heavier than the K-5. I would prefer the D750 over the K-3.

However, lens size and weight may swing it back to Pentax. One of the things that attracted me to Pentax was the compact lenses.
11-10-2014, 11:55 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Thanks for the camera size/weight comparisons guys - I really must use that site more often.

I didn't realise the K-3 is bigger and heavier than the K-5. I would prefer the D750 over the K-3.

However, lens size and weight may swing it back to Pentax. One of the things that attracted me to Pentax was the compact lenses.
Yes for me it is that and the price / performance ratio. You pay a lot to get that FF benefit.
11-10-2014, 12:12 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Yes for me it is that and the price / performance ratio. You pay a lot to get that FF benefit.
The advantage of going with Nikon is that there are often multiple options for the more popular focal lengths. So to say that you have to pay a lot more in cost and weight/size is a fallacy.
The 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm all have both a lighter/cheaper version and a more expensive, big/heavy version.

11-10-2014, 12:25 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The advantage of going with Nikon is that there are often multiple options for the more popular focal lengths. So to say that you have to pay a lot more in cost and weight/size is a fallacy.
The 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm all have both a lighter/cheaper version and a more expensive, big/heavy version.
Yes but I like my Takumars which are cheap and fabulous.
11-10-2014, 12:41 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
You pay a lot to get that FF benefit.
Well, it depends on the lens parameters and design philosophy. The APS-C Sigma 18-35 f1.8 is certainly no compact featherweight, for example. And some lens designers (Zeiss, Sigma nowadays) can't seem to help themselves but to design big hefty lenses, no matter what the target camera sensor size.

Plus with some lenses you just gotta pay the penalty of size and weight. It's hard to make fast, tough 70-200 or 300mm telephotos (or equivalents) very light and compact, no matter whether APS-C or FF.
11-10-2014, 12:45 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Well, it depends on the lens parameters and design philosophy. The APS-C Sigma 18-38 f1.8 is certainly no compact featherweight, for example. And some lens designers (Zeiss, Sigma nowadays) can't seem to help themselves but to design big hefty lenses, no matter what the target camera sensor size.

Plus with some lenses you just gotta pay the penalty of size and weight. It's hard to make fast, tough 70-200 or 300mm telephotos (or equivalents) very light and compact, no matter whether APS-C or FF.
Yes and I try not to buy those monster lenses because I know I will rarely use them because of the size and weight.

But generally speaking, most things about FF are more expensive, and usually bigger and heavier.
11-10-2014, 12:53 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
most things about FF are more expensive, and usually bigger and heavier.
True enough. Luckily, many of my existing Pentax lenses won't get any bigger or heavier or more expensive when mounted on FF.
11-10-2014, 08:13 PM   #117
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It may be a little strange but i rather think of full frame as the "middle ground." APS-c couldnt give me enough bang for the buck yet the only way i was going to get my hands on a medium format camera is the one that we used in class. I have a hard time believing that it's only one stop of difference between crop sensor and full frame.. since a full frame sensor is twice as big the sensor would be able to gather atleast twice as much light. Bu yeah, there was atleast 4-5 stops between my k20 and my d600. It was phenominal... going from a camera that doesnt really want to do anything properly in anything but perfect conditions (the camera's af would hunt in the shade in broad daylight!) to being able to do might photography hand held. I found this this
QuoteQuote:
The advantages of a Full Frame sensor go beyond low light noise performance to things such as Dynamic Range, Tonal Range, and Color Sensitivity. Additionally, most cameras with larger sensors also have more powerful internal processing units that do better at things such as Auto White balance. At the very top end, some cameras even meter in RGB instead of monochrome as most cameras do! But the increased cost for that miniscule increase in performance is rather disproportionate unless your livelihood depends on being just that much better than the next shooter.
Do I need a full-frame camera for low-light photography? - Photography Stack Exchange

But yeah my skills have probably also increased as well.


QuoteOriginally posted by ChristineTham:
Having shot with various "digital" full frames (including Canon 1DS, D800), I don't really enjoy the weight and size compared to what I had back then. I suspect from your post that you are young, therefore you probably don't mind the weight. Those of us who are slightly older do. I know at least three people (coincidentally all of them owning D800) that have stopped using DSLRs because they developed issues. One had a shoulder and upper arm pain that took over 6 months to heal, another developed muscular arthritis, ... In all three cases their doctors advised them to stop using their cameras. Just remember, you won't be young forever.

Also please forgive me if I don't share your enthusiasm for the "freaking awesome" dynamic range. With current generation bodies, the difference is not night and day. Even the K5 had more than enough dynamic range for what I need. Highlight and shadow recovery is great, but if you are doing that all the time then maybe you need to reconsider why you need to do it so often. And if you are not, then you don't need the dynamic range.
Yep, i probably am one of the youngest people here. Born in '89. My first digital camera, the ist was probably a kg lighter than the d600 with lenses and all but as you guessed, I dont really mind. Crop sensor cameras are actually too small for my hands. For me what i get from it, is more than worth it. The big advantage is simply that nikon is mainstream. So you have tons of 3rd party accessories, a huge fan base, etc. If you go onto youtube you can find a zillion how-to's, tips and tricks, etc. There is almost nothing for pentax. There is even modded firmware (http://nikon-hacker.com) that bumps the default video bit rate up to a whopping 64 mb/sec! This is what is night day and why i love nikon. And yes, as someone has mentioned there are quite a few more lens options, and from what i can tell most of them are cheaper than their pentax equivalents. The pentax 50mm costs almost as much (more on certain sites) as the nikon 50mm G and frankly the pentax just looks cheap, like a teleconverter The nikon has silent af, unlike the vast majority of pentax lenses which still rely on noisy in-body focusing.
11-13-2014, 12:06 PM   #118
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I went to Best Buy today to buy a D750 but left empty handed. They only had the kit available and I really wanted to buy just the body and a prime lens. The kit 24-120 lens looks odd on the D750 and is only f4 which is not ideal for the low-light shooting I am looking to do with this camera.

I almost bought a 610 but the tilt-screen of the 750 is one reason I am interested in that particular model.

FYI Best Buy offers 18 month no interest financing at the moment and anything bought between now and Christmas can be returned as late as January 15, so you get a two-month risk-free trial. Hard to beat that offer.
11-14-2014, 07:29 AM   #119
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I couldn't resist the Best Buy deal and I returned there last night and got the D750 lens kit along with a 50mm f1.8. This is the first Nikon DSLR I have ever owned and my first FF camera.

First impressions are this is a really nice camera that takes stunning images, especially with the prime lens. It is also noticeably larger and heavier than my K5. My Pentax 645 is still the biggest camera I own by far.

I will be giving it a real workout tonight at a Lantern Walk event that will have very low-light. I'm looking forward to using this fine machine. I think it will be hard to return it in a few months. I may just have to take the plunge.
11-14-2014, 07:40 AM   #120
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congrats on the new camera. the D750 is really interesting and something I've been following. the egronomics are quite different from your K5, let us know what you think.
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