[skyer]

You can set most RAW processors up to apply presets on import so you don't have to do any actual editing. If you like the look of a certain film or style set it up to apply on import. You just have a lot more options and control if you do it in the RAW processor... and better IQ.

I understand this but it's more complicated than it can look like at first sight.
When I was shooting with Pentax only in raw and processed images only in Lightroom/Photoshop everything looked reasonably fine. I couldn't understand those people who shot in jpegs because raw files are "so much better" in almost every respect!
Then I tried to a feature of shooting RAW+Jpeg. I processed raw files in a usual way and then opened the jpegs. I was very surprised! Some Jpeg images looked just awesome, better than my processed raw files. I then tried to reedit my raws so they would look the same way as jpegs. I couldn't do it! I ordered the ColorChecker in order I could create my own colour profile. I did create some but none of them looked like jpegs out of the camera.
One can't get from jpegs as much details as from raws, Noise is also more visible in Jpegs. However no matter of these facts, jpegs look better (not always but usually)!


I will give you an example. The first image is a .dng in Lightroom, the second one is .jpg also in Lightroom.




Without knowing how a jpeg looks like I would never be able to edit the .dng so that it would have similar to jpeg colours.

So you see, I am afraid that if I shoot with D750 only in raw I would loose a lot of little colour nuances in my images that I wouldn't know wether they should be in a photo or not.

[rawr]

my d600 and start shooting without even cracking the manual. Thats something that i have never been able to do with any other camera

You are such a fanboy. The D600/D610 menu is a monstrosity of nested options illogically organised, with stuff randomly scattered about the 'Shooting Menu' and the 'Custom menu' setting, for example. And there is a big and simply weird disconnect between the options accessible from the 'Menu' button and the seperate 'Info' button menus, with a seemingly random two level selection of options along the bottom of the menu there. It's simply a mess. Even Sony NEX menus, often criticised, are more logical and easier to use than the Nikon D610's.

Pentax menus can at least be driven with one hand too. Try that with your D600.

[Rondec]

True, but few people would say that their 2 year old kid is better designer than johnny ives. Pentax's design has been something that hasnt exactly been cited as a strength. TCS noted the peculiar, almost Frankenstein like design of the k30 in their review, and drtv had a few concerns about the design of the k-r. Much has been made of the some of the bizarre color combos that are offered that have kind of a toy like feel.. Pentax can put whatever it wants on the spec sheets, but, imho, because of their design they still kind of carry a dated feel.


Yet, having used the k20d for around a year, it sometimes did feel like 90s technology. The af would sometimes take several seconds to focus on things that wouldnt have posed a challenge for any other camera. Even with the kit lens it would sometimes refuse to focus on things in broad day light. At the very least, it felt a few years behind the canon T3Is that i borrowed from the school every now and then. I would be really curious to see what newer pentax cameras are like but theres no way to really get your hands on one, which is why i think the op is much safer going with the d750. I can go to my local camera store and try out any canon/nikon i want and really get a feel for it, but with pentax you are essentially placing your hundreds of $$ in a review you read online. My local Frys electronics does have one pentax camera (the water proof one i think) but they dont have any of their dslrs. I like to actually get my hands on my gear before i put down my hard earned cash on it..


Really? I was able to pick up my d600 and start shooting without even cracking the manual. Thats something that i have never been able to do with any other camera and i found it remarkable. Plus, the k30 still use numbers in the custom settings menu. This is something that i really hoped they would do away with after the k20.. The designer in me also kind of cringes when i look at this screen
Pentax K-30 Digital SLR Menu Walkthrough - YouTube

I come back to the fact that it is about the photos you can take with a given camera. You shouldn't have to menu dive much at all, even on an entry level camera like the K30 or K50. My experience with my dad's K30 is that any setting can be changed with one to two button pushes. The menus just are a red herring. Who buys a medium format 645z or Hasselblad and then discusses the fact that the menu system seems antiquated? Folks don't care about that. They care about the camera capabilities and even more, the glass that you can use with the camera.

If I list the important things that let you take a good photo, I would start with light and move to subject, then composition, glass and finally the camera body. There are certain camera bodies that may struggle in extreme situations (low iso, super fast tracking shots), but in general, the camera body is not the weak link in the chain.

Honestly, I have never seen a photographer on the forum confess that they missed a shot because of (a) poor design or (b) because of poor menu structure. Maybe folks are missing photos right and left for these reasons and they are too embarrassed to mention it, but I kind of doubt it.

[skyer]

Really? I was able to pick up my d600 and start shooting without even cracking the manual.

I don't know well D600 nor K-30. What I know for sure is that K-3 ergonomics and user interface is a lot better than D750's.
K-3's grip is phenomenal! Also I can easily do a lot of actions only with one hand. With Nikon I have to use both hands, for example, for magnification (OK button is good but sometimes I don't need to look at 100%).
On D750 display one can't see big images with an exposure info (big images without exposure info or only small images with info). If I watch a vertical image on K-3, one can look at it already rotated. D750 also can do this. However if I rotate K-3, an image will also rotate so it will become bigger on the LCD. D750 will allow only to look at small images or just to turn off the auto-rotate function.
I can continue the list for quite some time.

[neostyles]

You are such a fanboy. The D600/D610 menu is a monstrosity of nested options illogically organised, with stuff randomly scattered about the 'Shooting Menu' and the 'Custom menu' setting, for example. And there is a big and simply weird disconnect between the options accessible from the 'Menu' button and the seperate 'Info' button menus, with a seemingly random two level selection of options along the bottom of the menu there. It's simply a mess. Even Sony NEX menus, often criticised, are more logical and easier to use than the Nikon D610's.

Pentax menus can at least be driven with one hand too. Try that with your D600.

The d600 is considerably bigger than the k3. I wouldnt recommend holdng expensive gear with one hand (not to mention using two hands probably gives you that in hand stabilization. ) Nikon recognizes this and the menu button is conviently placed where your thumb on your left hand naturally is, whereas with the the k3 its all the way at the bottom and unless you are in the guinness book of world records for the most flexible thumb its probably gonna take two hands too. On the d750, all it takes is one push of a button to change your all your af settings. You dont even have to take your eye off the subject to change af settings, where as with the pentax it has a separate button for af mode and settings. Try bracketing without menu diving on the k3. Try changing to continuous shooting without menu diving on the k3. Trying doing one touch image locking on the k3. Thus is huge - the nikon has built in time lapses. Try getting modded firmware with super high bitrate on the k3. Try getting custom picture profiles on the k3. There are custom picture profiles available for all nikon cameras (as far as i know.) If you have a nikon you should check this out they are seriously awesome
Flaat picture controls for Nikon DSLRs | Philip Bloom Forum
When everything is at your finger tips, it just makes things so much easier. . If pentax was so vastly superior as you seem to say, wouldnt nikon acccount for 6% of the markey and pentax 30% insteaf of well the other way around? That info button gives people quick access to the most commonly used settings. Thats why its used and loved by pros everywhere. No menu diving for settings you might have to change frequently. For me, photography is very much spontaneous and being able to change things at the drop of a hat is awesome

There is nothing illogical about it, dude. The shooting menu has all the settings you would expect (in fact, the k3s placement of the playback button and the metering button right next to each other seems strikes me as a bit odd.) Its so simple and idiot proof that a sleep deprived college student figured it out without even opening the manual. Looking at the back of the k3 its not clear how i switch to live view, yet when i got my d600, it took me 15 seconds to see how to switch to live view. Ive seen much made about whether full frame is an advantage or not. But with full frame comes bigger size and that means more controls. That extra width allows for more controls while keeping the same screensize as the K3. Its immediately clear I actually like it better than the way pentax/canon do it. because you dont have to hop from one tab to another. Much faster imo, but this is kind of subjective. Just look at the k3s time/date playback compare to calender view on the d600. K3 looks pretty dated



Plus, it didnt look like (judging from the manual) you can delete all the images taken on a certain day like you can with the d750.. Why does this matter? This simple thing has proved very useful to me because i can now free up space on my cards when im out somewhere without a computer. And yes, most of the time its considered good to sort through your images before you go out for a shoot but there are times when this might not happen. Ive found myself out when i realize that my sd cards are full


For everything that is being made of the k3 ergonomics, they dont look all that great. The part where your fingers are supposed to go is very prounced. That little portion at the bottom of concave part looks like it might give you blisters during long usage..

Not to mention, the d750 is great for video. Tried it out at my local camera store and it's fantastic how easy it is to change picture mode, framerate, etc all with the touch of a button, without ever leaving the shooting screen. So, if you do video it seems like kind of a no brainer. Plus, if you want to use wifi, it is miles easier on the d750 (not to mention you get to keep your dual card slots on the d750.) I could go on too. Flip out screen screen and we have yet to see that on a pentax. More lens choices too. There is alot to be gained. I dont know why you would give up this for just one ev of low light focusing. My d600 has one more stop of EV compensation in movie mode though The k3 only goes down to -2.

Honestly, I have never seen a photographer on the forum confess that they missed a shot because of (a) poor design or (b) because of poor menu structure. Maybe folks are missing photos right and left for these reasons and they are too embarrassed to mention it, but I kind of doubt it.

I doubt it comes down to that. All of pentax forum is full of freaking fantastic images. Im not questioning whether great images can be taken with a pentax. I certainly have some nice ones on my portfolio The work of people like marklittlejon is a huge inspiration for me. But when things are easier, it really does free you up creatively. This is why i am looking at maybe getting the sony a9 once it comes out. When your tools are much convenient, and you dont even think about what you are doing, using your camera just sort of becomes this unconscious process, really benefits you as an artist. I doubt any other camera could have gotten me so many nice pics.

[rawr]

Looking at the back of the k3 its not clear how i switch to live view

Seriously, stop now. You are embarrassing yourself.

[neostyles]

I dont mean to imply that you need a degree in rocket science or something but pentax just seems like it has more of a learning curve than the other names. Now that im looking at it, its probably the record button, but this isnt as intuitive is the d750 imo where i where it "just clicked." Just my 2 cents.

[rawr]

'Learning curves' or 'rocket science' hardly required.
The K-3 LiveView button is red, and has 'LV' underneath it. How much simpler can you get?


If anything, it is more prominent than the LiveView button on the D610.


or the D750:


You are trying too hard to dump on Pentax.

[cxdoo]

'Learning curves' or 'rocket science' hardly required.
The K-3 LiveView button is red, and has 'LV' underneath it. How much simpler can you get?


If anything, it is more prominent than the LiveView button on the D610.


or the D750:


You are trying too hard to dump on Pentax.

Looking at this I'd say K5 family has the best button layout by far. The only two things I'd change are
1) put flash popup button wherever just not *there*
2) IS switch like K100DS had.

[rawr]

Note also that the K-3 LiveView is the only one with focus peaking too.
A very useful feature, for manual glass in particular (especially my Samyang 85 f1.4).

Nikon really cheaped out with that. Even my NEX and RX100 do focus peaking.

[FantasticMrFox]

Nikon recognizes this and the menu button is conviently placed where your thumb on your left hand naturally is, whereas with the the k3 ...

If that is where your thumb naturally is, then you're holding your camera the wrong way. A DSLR is meant to be held with one hand at the grip and the other at/on/under the lens. If your left thumb is naturally on the Nikon's menu button, you're holding your DSLR like a compact camera.

On the d750, all it takes is one push of a button to change your all your af settings. You dont even have to take your eye off the subject to change af settings, where as with the pentax it has a separate button for af mode and settings.

No, it doesn't. You press the AF button and use the front and back wheel to select the mode (AF.A, AF.S, AF.C) and AF point selection method, both is shown in the viewfinder.

Thus is huge - the nikon has built in time lapses.

So has the K3.

Try getting custom picture profiles on the k3. There are custom picture profiles available for all nikon cameras (as far as i know.).

Same with Pentax.

That info button gives people quick access to the most commonly used settings. Thats why its used and loved by pros everywhere. No menu diving for settings you might have to change frequently.

Saaame with Pentax. Boy, I'm getting tired of having to write the same over and over, why does the forum not have a one-button option for that? Guess I have to move over to nikonforums.com

Looking at the back of the k3 its not clear how i switch to live view ...

Are you bloody kidding me?! It's a massive red button with 'LV' written under it.

I got my first DSLR (Pentax) when living in an African country with a notoriously unreliable mail system, so a friend visiting a friend brought me the camera from Germany - just the camera and lens, charger and battery - no manual, no ubiquitous internet access to check. And I still figured everything out pretty much immediately.

No offence intended, but as your beautiful 'live view' example shows it looks like the problem is sitting behind the camera.

[Rondec]

The d600 is considerably bigger than the k3. I wouldnt recommend holdng expensive gear with one hand (not to mention using two hands probably gives you that in hand stabilization. ) Nikon recognizes this and the menu button is conviently placed where your thumb on your left hand naturally is, whereas with the the k3 its all the way at the bottom and unless you are in the guinness book of world records for the most flexible thumb its probably gonna take two hands too. On the d750, all it takes is one push of a button to change your all your af settings. You dont even have to take your eye off the subject to change af settings, where as with the pentax it has a separate button for af mode and settings. Try bracketing without menu diving on the k3. Try changing to continuous shooting without menu diving on the k3. Trying doing one touch image locking on the k3. Thus is huge - the nikon has built in time lapses. Try getting modded firmware with super high bitrate on the k3. Try getting custom picture profiles on the k3. There are custom picture profiles available for all nikon cameras (as far as i know.) If you have a nikon you should check this out they are seriously awesome
Flaat picture controls for Nikon DSLRs | Philip Bloom Forum
When everything is at your finger tips, it just makes things so much easier. . If pentax was so vastly superior as you seem to say, wouldnt nikon acccount for 6% of the markey and pentax 30% insteaf of well the other way around? That info button gives people quick access to the most commonly used settings. Thats why its used and loved by pros everywhere. No menu diving for settings you might have to change frequently. For me, photography is very much spontaneous and being able to change things at the drop of a hat is awesome

There is nothing illogical about it, dude. The shooting menu has all the settings you would expect (in fact, the k3s placement of the playback button and the metering button right next to each other seems strikes me as a bit odd.) Its so simple and idiot proof that a sleep deprived college student figured it out without even opening the manual. Looking at the back of the k3 its not clear how i switch to live view, yet when i got my d600, it took me 15 seconds to see how to switch to live view. Ive seen much made about whether full frame is an advantage or not. But with full frame comes bigger size and that means more controls. That extra width allows for more controls while keeping the same screensize as the K3. Its immediately clear I actually like it better than the way pentax/canon do it. because you dont have to hop from one tab to another. Much faster imo, but this is kind of subjective. Just look at the k3s time/date playback compare to calender view on the d600. K3 looks pretty dated



Plus, it didnt look like (judging from the manual) you can delete all the images taken on a certain day like you can with the d750.. Why does this matter? This simple thing has proved very useful to me because i can now free up space on my cards when im out somewhere without a computer. And yes, most of the time its considered good to sort through your images before you go out for a shoot but there are times when this might not happen. Ive found myself out when i realize that my sd cards are full


For everything that is being made of the k3 ergonomics, they dont look all that great. The part where your fingers are supposed to go is very prounced. That little portion at the bottom of concave part looks like it might give you blisters during long usage..

Not to mention, the d750 is great for video. Tried it out at my local camera store and it's fantastic how easy it is to change picture mode, framerate, etc all with the touch of a button, without ever leaving the shooting screen. So, if you do video it seems like kind of a no brainer. Plus, if you want to use wifi, it is miles easier on the d750 (not to mention you get to keep your dual card slots on the d750.) I could go on too. Flip out screen screen and we have yet to see that on a pentax. More lens choices too. There is alot to be gained. I dont know why you would give up this for just one ev of low light focusing. My d600 has one more stop of EV compensation in movie mode though The k3 only goes down to -2.


I doubt it comes down to that. All of pentax forum is full of freaking fantastic images. Im not questioning whether great images can be taken with a pentax. I certainly have some nice ones on my portfolio The work of people like marklittlejon is a huge inspiration for me. But when things are easier, it really does free you up creatively. This is why i am looking at maybe getting the sony a9 once it comes out. When your tools are much convenient, and you dont even think about what you are doing, using your camera just sort of becomes this unconscious process, really benefits you as an artist. I doubt any other camera could have gotten me so many nice pics.

I have a hard to time arguing about ergonomics, because they are very individual specific. I can do any function I need to use while shooting with my K3 with my eye to the viewfinder. That does not include using the menu button. Most of the things you mention about your Nikons are able to be changed with a button push, or two at most. I change to bracketing all the time with one button push. I am not sure what you mean by continuous shooting, but you can change your auto focus mode by holding down the AF button and turning the back dial. Takes 2 seconds. I am sure these things are easy to do on Nikons as well -- these are basic functions that camera companies no they have to make easily accessible to the photographers shooting with their gear.

Oh, well... You do know, that you don't have to dump on Pentax in order for your choice of the D600 to be OK? It is a fine (not a great) camera. But running down the K3 doesn't make your choice any better. I am sure that when you shoot with a particular brand a lot, it does feel more comfortable -- that's the way it is for me with Pentax -- but that doesn't mean that it is right or wrong. I will continue to repeat that it is about photos and a camera body is the smallest factor in making a shoot work or not.

[noelpolar]

I must admit.... I love being able to use the K3 one handed!

One handed Sunflower.....left hand was holding it to face camera!

by Noelpolar, on Flickr

Thumb easily reaches all buttons/functions on the rhs

[Winder]

If pentax was so vastly superior as you seem to say, wouldnt nikon acccount for 6% of the markey and pentax 30% insteaf of well the other way around?

Nikon ergonomics have always been relatively bad. That is why every review your read about the new D750 talks about how much better the new grip is. The Df is simply awful.

You Tube

You Tube

[neostyles]

Nikon D600 is defenitely usable with one hand. Went out in the rain a week or so ago and i only had one hand to use as the other hand was holding the umbrella. If nikon ergonomics were so bad why many pros use them for long wedding shoots? l All i need is the shutter button and the ae/af lock button which is conveniently placed where my thumb naturally falls. On the k3's its awkwardly placed to the side. Of course, this is hard to judge from a photo, but the buttons on the k3 look like they would be kind of slippery in the rain, where as with the d750 they are nice and grippy.

If anything, it is more prominent than the LiveView button on the D610.

I disagree. If anything, the movie/stills switch really draws your eyes to it. I think the fact that the live view button is the movie record button will also be confusing to many people. Im not blind, it would be kind of hard to see the massive red button, but it thogutht "wait thats the movie record button, live view couldnt be that or could it." It took me a few minutes to figure out whereas with the 610, i just instantly put my finger (literally ) The live view button/movie switch combo is considerably bigger (so it is decidedly much more prominant) and it's right on the back of the camera, where most people would expect the controls to be. Its easily reachible by your thumb. The AE lock buttom is nicely raised which makes it a breeze to get too, where as with the pentax its very much "sunk" in. The pentax tries to most of the controls on the right side which results in it feeling crowded imho. Everything is very much self explanatory with the nikon. Looking at that picture, even if i havent been shooting nikon for the last 6 months i can instantly tell how to change iso. Cant say the same for the pentax, which feels crowded by comparison. The green button is far too close to the movie/stills switch, so you cant tell if it has something to do with shooting movies or if it's something else. That switch is pretty awkwardly designed too imho. It doesnt even line up with the "movie" or "stills", instead its "whatever its closest too is what is selected." Where is the speaker on the k3? Ok, according to the manual, it's right there on the top, but its much smaller and it doesnt even face you. Plus, look at that rear grip. It only runs part way (because they wanted to squeeze in everything on the right side) where as with the nikon its big enough for your whole hand.