[mohb]

At twice the price of a K3 shouldn't the AF of the D750 be better?

[Winder]

At twice the price of a K3 shouldn't the AF of the D750 be better?

It should be, but we are using the K-3 as a reference point for how much Ricoh needs to improve it AF system for the new FF body if it wants to compete against the Nikon D750/D810. The current K-3 AF is on par with current mirrorless cameras.

[philbaum]

It annoys me somewhat that there are different aspects to AF than just tracking tests. And these areas are often ignored in many reviews. Since the K3 arrived on the scene in Oct 2013, its been the APS class leader in low light static focusing with its unparalleled -3ev focusing. The Jan 2014 Popular Photography noted that in its AF speed tests, the K3 beat the Nikon 7100 from EV12 to EV4.

Though our (Pop. Photography) test measures down only to -2ev, Pentax rates the system as effective down to EV-3. ...in an age where ever fewer cameras focus below EV-1, its refreshing to see a company (Pentax) take this tack.

It wasn't till 15 months later, that the D7200 was issued with its new -3ev standard, announced like they just invented it. (i know that companies copy features from each other, e.g. the Nikon had double SD slots before the Pentax did)

And comparing APS K3 camera tracking to FF cameras at 3 tiimes the price, seems a bit silly to me no matter how its rationalized.

I do a lot of play dress rehearsal shooting. I don't have much use for tracking, altho i find it interesting, but i do treasure low light static focus a lot. Many scenes are done in low light conditions. Cameras with excellent high iso performance are of no use to me if they can't focus in low light. The K3 has performed flawlessly in this AF area.

The picture below was taken at 25,600iso and pushed another .8ev, yep, i've been a bad photographer :-). Then it was printed at 20X30 and posted on the lobby wall
K3 - the little camera that could!

[IMG][/IMG]

[FantasticMrFox]

Since the K3 arrived on the scene in Oct 2013, its been the APS class leader in low light static focusing with its unparalleled -3ev focusing.

Samsung NX1: -4 EV

...

The K3's AF.S is pretty damn good though. I was surprised how much faster it locks on even with screw-driven lenses when I switched from my K-r, and it's very precise too.

[normhead]

I think the thread, at least from my perspective, is also in anticipation that the Pentax FF will be at best D610 type quality and probably not D750, which seems to have an AF system that stacks up with the best....always in the back of my mind, if I get a job that I'm, not comfortable with my K-3 for, what do i rent?

That's actually a pretty ridiculous line of thinking at my age... old habits die hard.

[philbaum]

I think the thread, at least from my perspective, is also in anticipation that the Pentax FF will be at best D610 type quality and probably not D750, which seems to have an AF system that stacks up with the best....always in the back of my mind, if I get a job that I'm, not comfortable with my K-3 for, what do i rent?

That's actually a pretty ridiculous line of thinking at my age... old habits die hard.

Just did a price check and D750 is currently at $1996 at Amazon, body only
Pentax k3 is at $703 body only.

Dividing 1996/703=2.84. I apparently exaggerated by saying the D750 was 3 times the k3 cost - whoops. I've read that the number of camera introductions are slowing down. Its about time, i don't think the market will sustain what's out there now, IMO.

But Norm's right - how good is good enough. I'm President of a photography club, because noone else wanted to be - including me :-( We get 10-20 folks at our monthly meetings - sometimes meet for other secondary outings. Noone wanted to give up the club - we enjoy the hobby and each other. Even if our cameras can't track dogs :-)

[Winder]

Just did a price check and D750 is currently at $1996 at Amazon, body only
Pentax k3 is at $703 body only.

Dividing 1996/703=2.84. I apparently exaggerated by saying the D750 was 3 times the k3 cost - whoops. I've read that the number of camera introductions are slowing down. Its about time, i don't think the market will sustain what's out there now, IMO.

But Norm's right - how good is good enough. I'm President of a photography club, because noone else wanted to be - including me :-( We get 10-20 folks at our monthly meetings - sometimes meet for other secondary outings. Noone wanted to give up the club - we enjoy the hobby and each other. Even if our cameras can't track dogs :-)

True, but the K-3 launched at $1,500. IF it had the same AF as the D750 it would probably sell for much more than its current price. Since the K-3 is the best AF Ricoh has, it all we have to go by and the bar that Ricoh has to raise if it wants to compete against Canon and Nikon..... or Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, or Samsung. All of whom have made big strides in AF performance over the last 2 years.One advantage that Sony, Fuji, Olympus, & Samsung have is that they have modern lenses with modern drive systems. I'm hoping Ricoh will surprise up with a new set of FA Limited lenses this year with modern AF, coating, & WR.

---------- Post added 05-25-15 at 03:44 PM ----------

Enjoyed the movie, but to be fair, one can cherry-pick the best multi-image example from a collection of attempts, too. In Realville though, isn't it all about picking that one frame to fine tune? I have tons of tracking shots featuring my Vizsla flying at top speed and each spanks every one of the ten fuzzy weird green so-so's in the "test strip" example. Clearly, even a semi-skilled photographer (like me) using a K-3 and pokey lens can do much better than 'good enough' when quick focus is needed to get the shot.



BTW: Without exception, Orion fetches to my non-gun (left) side hand, too.

Cheers... M

Ok. Cherry pick a nice 10 frame series. It would be good to see how well the 100mm MACRO tracks.

[philbaum]

True, but the K-3 launched at $1,500. IF it had the same AF as the D750 it would probably sell for much more than its current price. ....

One advantage that Sony, Fuji, Olympus, & Samsung have is that they have modern lenses with modern drive systems. I'm hoping Ricoh will surprise up with a new set of FA Limited lenses this year with modern AF, coating, & WR.

Okay Winder - show me the price of the D750 back in Oct 2013. Either way - its a flawed price comparison. Prices on sensors changed in the interval between those 2 launch dates, as well as labor rates, etc.

Your second comment is far more interesting to me. I wonder how many of Nikon and Canon lenses have "modern" designs that are conducive to fast AF operation. As i understand it - the lighter the moving part of the lens, the faster it can adjust to the new position, not to mention incorporating the latest optical materials. In the past, it was mostly about optical quality and maintaining manual focusing ability. Today, it seems all about speed and tracking. As someone previously stated, if one follows only the numbers - one might not like the result in the real world :-(
I was trained as a Mech. Engr, and quickly learned that designing equipment was often about pros, cons, and the tradeoffs. Sure, one can extremely optimize one feature, but many times that sub-optimizes other features. And at the end of the day, one has to sell the dang thing they designed - which can be a real pain

So Nikon and Canon can brag about all the lenses they have - but how many are "modern" designs that will support advertised AF speed specs? Starting up new camera models and mounts like Sony, Fuji, Samsung, Oly, and Panasonic has its advantages -thats for sure.

[rawr]

I hope the Ricoh engineers developing the FF are dog owners, not cat owners.

[dane.dawg]

As a former Pentax user owing 2x-K3 and the best wildlife lenses I could afford, I will say Nikons AF is much better.
Did I great great shots with the K5 and K3? yes!
Have I gotten more keepers from Nikon? yes!
Pentax DX cameras are a lot nicer then Nikons in every aspect except in AF!

[Winder]

Okay Winder - show me the price of the D750 back in Oct 2013. Either way - its a flawed price comparison. Prices on sensors changed in the interval between those 2 launch dates, as well as labor rates, etc.

Not really doing it as purely a price comparison, or I would point out he 645Z is more expensive and has the same AF. What I'm trying to say is that the K-3/645z represent Ricoh's best AF. Ricoh needs to take a step forward and get to the level of the D750 and it doesn't matter if we are talking about the $1,000 K-3II or the $8,000 645z. Ricoh's #1 priority needs to be AF right now.

[normhead]

Not really doing it as purely a price comparison, or I would point out he 645Z is more expensive and has the same AF. What I'm trying to say is that the K-3/645z represent Ricoh's best AF. Ricoh needs to take a step forward and get to the level of the D750 and it doesn't matter if we are talking about the $1,000 K-3II or the $8,000 645z. Ricoh's #1 priority needs to be AF right now.

From what I understand from talking to Pentax reps a few years ago, it's been a concern at Pentax since before Ricoh, it would seem that maybe coming up with top notch AF might be a little more complicated than they were anticipating. After all, if it were easy everyone would have it.

My take at the moment, is if you want D750 AF, buy a D750. There's no guarantee Pentax will have matched it even 10 years from now. But, I really want to see what the K3ii and Pentax FF are capable of before I go 100% on that evaluation.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

I think the D750 is the best all around camera that Nikon makes and its AF is on the same level as the D4 in terms of speed. It doesn't have the D4 buffer, frame rate, or build quality, but for short bursts its a great camera. I have never used it with long glass. The kit lens is the only zoom I have used on the D750 and its pretty fast. The 85G and 58mm are the only other lenses I have gotten to play with on a D750, so not a very broad experience. If Ricoh can match or exceed the D750 AF they will have a very successful camera. I didn't use the D750 for tracking anything, but for point to point AF with kit lens it was about as fast as snapping your fingers. The advantage the D4 has with frame rate is that it minimized mirror blackout which makes it easier to keep the composition. D750 only has 6 fps while the D4s has 11.

I have followed Fariedz in the past and some of his work shooting racing he now uses the D750 for his work.

THIS IS HIS WORK WITH THE D750 taken from other site




Link to some of his work
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fariedzfictionator/page2

[neostyles]

What about video? Better low light?

[asp1880]

Thanks guys, I came back for a peak, and I'm thinking probably better than I can do with my K-3.I was looking at some of the posts in some of the Nikon forums... and while I found no K-3 comparisons, their seemed to be a common thread that compared to a D7100 or D7200 this was just a really nice camera to work with. Even they guy who is still working with his D7100 for wildlife and macro, said he loved the way the D750 functioned, in fact they saw that as the big step up, just the way the camera handled. What do you guys who have K-3's think?

I tried something similar recently with my K-3 and the DA70, shooting wide open in full sun. I could not obtain that keeper rate, at best 30%-50% of it.


The K-3 is actually capable of shooting a "perfect" sequence where it drives the lens and hits focus for every shot. I've experienced it a couple of times, including one time with a dog playing fetch.


But it's very rare and usually it only adjusts the focus distance for every second or third shot, yielding a 30%-50% keeper rate. The dpreview K-3 review observed this behaviour too.


My own hypothesis is that the K-3 is very unforgiving of sloppy panning technique and need optimal following technique, while the good sports systems can tolerate more wobbly panning because of better tracking algorithms. Mind you I've never shot with anything but Pentax, so I really can't compare to anything except the posted dog sequences here.


Regards,
--Anders.