Is the Sony A-mount Dead?

philbaum · 09-14-2015, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

Pentax s lack of market share has nothing to do with the K mount. IMO, it's the K mount that has probably kept them alive. With their total lack of any marketing in the US, I'm surprised that they're still going (but also very happy). Sony is so big that they can afford to constantly experiment with new products. Their business model is built on customers constantly buying their new technology and putting last years stuff out at the garage sale. They are using that same business model in their camera division. How it will ultimately work out for them in the long run remains to be seen. Photographers tend to buy into a brand and loyally stick with the product. Lenses are considered a long term investment. Abandoning a lens mount isn't a decision that shouldn't be made lightly.

I don't think one can blame it all on marketing, as in some other parts of the world, sales are better than in the US, but not that much better. Pentax just seems like a very conservative company to me in adopting new ideas. I think its hurt them. Like equipping cameras with tilting monitors. You have to pay like $8000 grand to get a tilting mirror on Pentax 645Z, while Sony equips their most cheapest entry level cameras with them. I miss that on my K3, although i knew it when i bought it. Not invented here - not any good i guess.

Pentax makes solid, durable, actual water resistant cameras - but is that enough in today's market - i hope so.

mecrox · 09-14-2015, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I don't think one can blame it all on marketing, as in some other parts of the world, sales are better than in the US, but not that much better. Pentax just seems like a very conservative company to me in adopting new ideas. I think its hurt them. Like equipping cameras with tilting monitors. You have to pay like $8000 grand to get a tilting mirror on Pentax 645Z, while Sony equips their most cheapest entry level cameras with them. I miss that on my K3, although i knew it when i bought it. Not invented here - not any good i guess.

Pentax makes solid, durable, actual water resistant cameras - but is that enough in today's market - i hope so.

I can't work them out, myself. You say durable, but each of my past three bodies has failed within a few months, necessitating warranty service. I'm afraid I don't think they are all that durable, in reality. The whole world seems to have passed them by really. Look at the recent explosion of high-end, high-priced lenses - Zeiss Milvus, Sigma Art, Tamron SP, Sony Zeiss Batis, new things from Canon L and from Nikon too, like their 1.4 G lenses. The core camera companies are shifting focus towards selling smaller quantities of higher-priced, higher-quality things.The 645z is plum in the middle of that, so 10/10, but the DSLR stuff is nowhere near it. I suppose they will keep going for as long as Ricoh is happy but they still remain an enigma to me. I feel for the Sony A mount folks, though, actually for a lot of people who were suckered into spending $$$ on full framers only to see Canonikon FF factory refurbs on offer for little or no more than a K3 or D7200 (and a heck of a lot less than a new 7D Mk II).

Winder · 09-14-2015, 03:16 PM

I think the future of A-mount is very questionable. With PDAF on sensor, the SLT is obsolete. My guess is Sony abandons the technology and makes the A-mount fully mirrorless if it continues. Bigger body A99II (better heat dissipation), bigger battery, more processing power, better ergonomics, established lens line-up. I'm pretty sure SLT is dead, not so sure about A-mount.

TheLens · 09-14-2015, 07:04 PM

I bought a Sony A77ii last year and wasn't impressed with it. I used both of my Sony lenses, Nikon lenses with an adapter, and couldn't get the same level of sharpness out of it as I can get with my Nikons. Maybe because of the fact that the photo is taken through the mirror??? And many camera shops will not clean the mirror because of the fear of damage. I ended up selling the whole kit a few months after I bought it.

philbaum · 09-14-2015, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Winder

I think the future of A-mount is very questionable. With PDAF on sensor, the SLT is obsolete. My guess is Sony abandons the technology and makes the A-mount fully mirrorless if it continues. Bigger body A99II (better heat dissipation), bigger battery, more processing power, better ergonomics, established lens line-up. I'm pretty sure SLT is dead, not so sure about A-mount.

That sounds like a really good idea. The size of the A7 type bodies really seems to cause heating and other problems. But i think the mount would have to be updated to utilize the FE AF features.

**Rondec** · 09-15-2015, 03:03 AM

I have thought for awhile that Sony was done with the A mount. They have kept it around as much because its lenses fill in gaps for the FE mount, with the adapter. As they fill in the FE mount lens line up, there will be less need for it over time.

It does seem like there is need for a little larger body. Of course NEX bodies are skinny by definition due to the shorter registration, but most of the current ones don't seem really well designed to deal with large/fast apertured zooms or telephotos.

Winder · 09-15-2015, 07:03 AM

Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New ? Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

8 new FE lenses coming.

Sony has registered the new name for the 24-70 G lens for FE mount so that one is probably coming soon. Hopefully F/2.8. These big F/2.8 zooms won't balance well with the A7 line. Sony needs a bigger body for these. Definitely need bigger batteries. I shot a wedding over the weekend mostly with my A7II and the OSS on the 90mm FE really sucks down the power. Went through 4 batteries.

reeftool · 09-15-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by TheLens

I bought a Sony A77ii last year and wasn't impressed with it. I used both of my Sony lenses, Nikon lenses with an adapter, and couldn't get the same level of sharpness out of it as I can get with my Nikons. Maybe because of the fact that the photo is taken through the mirror??? And many camera shops will not clean the mirror because of the fear of damage. I ended up selling the whole kit a few months after I bought it.

SLR's don't take pictures through the mirror. It lifts up when you press the shutter. A little dirt on the mirror won't affect IQ at all.

A new uncompressed Raw should be big news to Sony owners.

philbaum · 09-15-2015, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New ? Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

8 new FE lenses coming.

Sony has registered the new name for the 24-70 G lens for FE mount so that one is probably coming soon. Hopefully F/2.8. These big F/2.8 zooms won't balance well with the A7 line. Sony needs a bigger body for these. Definitely need bigger batteries. I shot a wedding over the weekend mostly with my A7II and the OSS on the 90mm FE really sucks down the power. Went through 4 batteries.

I assume you know about turning on the airplane mode. It turns off the camera's attempt to find a network - i guess. The camera is now well-balanced with the 70-200f4 i just bought - but wow - what a lens - love it. I hope Sony continues to make the existing A7RII body size, plus a larger body for those that want it. I have no problem with the existing A7RII body size. If i did weddings - i might be singing a different tune.

Winder · 09-15-2015, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I assume you know about turning on the airplane mode. It turns off the camera's attempt to find a network - i guess. The camera is now well-balanced with the 70-200f4 i just bought - but wow - what a lens - love it. I hope Sony continues to make the existing A7RII body size, plus a larger body for those that want it. I have no problem with the existing A7RII body size. If i did weddings - i might be singing a different tune.

I don't have a problem with the body size. I actually like it. I was carrying my K-3 for most of the wedding, and then just put it away and shot with the A7II. The 55mm F/1.8 is a special lens. The 90mm macro has that 3D pop but its not as pronounced as it is the 55mm. The 90mm is getting to be a little big for the A7II body. Both lenses are almost too sharp for portrait work. I will buy the 35mm F/1.4 next month and that will round out my core lens needs for this system.

Mistral75 · 09-15-2015, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

SLR's don't take pictures through the mirror. It lifts up when you press the shutter. A little dirt on the mirror won't affect IQ at all.

(...)

Sony Alpha 77 II is not a SLR but a SLT with a translucent mirror through which the photo is taken.

Winder · 09-15-2015, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

A new uncompressed Raw should be big news to Sony owners.

I wish I had uncompressed RAW now. I just shot a wedding where part of the venue was in direct sun and part was shaded. As the bride walked up the isle she went from bright sun to shade and I'm having to bring up all my shadows a good bit with the sky properly exposed for the best balance. Had I exposed for the shade, my background would have been blown-out and could not be recovered. This is where the compressed RAW bothers me.

mrNewt · 09-16-2015, 05:10 AM

I don't think A mount is dead either. I think their focus shifted a little more on FE mount because they had quite a big gap in the lens line-up. Now that the gap is slowly closing, most probably eventually the attention will shift back to A mounts... and in the future will be easier to maintain both mounts once they have them at the same "level".

nickthetasmaniac · 09-16-2015, 06:46 AM

My 2c - A-mount is dead and buried.

I see absolutely zero reason for Sony to continue it.

Fogel70 · 09-17-2015, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

My 2c - A-mount is dead and buried.

I see absolutely zero reason for Sony to continue it.

I agree, and as full compatibility with A-mount to E/FE is done with adapters, there is not much use in manufacturing cameras with both mounts.

And as the SLT concept is also pretty much dead as the PDAF on sensor will replace it, there is just not much reason for continue to produce mirrorless cameras with both mounts.

09-14-2015, 03:07 PM	#17
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by philbaum I don't think one can blame it all on marketing, as in some other parts of the world, sales are better than in the US, but not that much better. Pentax just seems like a very conservative company to me in adopting new ideas. I think its hurt them. Like equipping cameras with tilting monitors. You have to pay like $8000 grand to get a tilting mirror on Pentax 645Z, while Sony equips their most cheapest entry level cameras with them. I miss that on my K3, although i knew it when i bought it. Not invented here - not any good i guess. Pentax makes solid, durable, actual water resistant cameras - but is that enough in today's market - i hope so. I can't work them out, myself. You say durable, but each of my past three bodies has failed within a few months, necessitating warranty service. I'm afraid I don't think they are all that durable, in reality. The whole world seems to have passed them by really. Look at the recent explosion of high-end, high-priced lenses - Zeiss Milvus, Sigma Art, Tamron SP, Sony Zeiss Batis, new things from Canon L and from Nikon too, like their 1.4 G lenses. The core camera companies are shifting focus towards selling smaller quantities of higher-priced, higher-quality things.The 645z is plum in the middle of that, so 10/10, but the DSLR stuff is nowhere near it. I suppose they will keep going for as long as Ricoh is happy but they still remain an enigma to me. I feel for the Sony A mount folks, though, actually for a lot of people who were suckered into spending $$$ on full framers only to see Canonikon FF factory refurbs on offer for little or no more than a K3 or D7200 (and a heck of a lot less than a new 7D Mk II). Last edited by mecrox; 09-14-2015 at 03:38 PM.

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09-14-2015, 02:04 PM	#16
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by reeftool Pentax s lack of market share has nothing to do with the K mount. IMO, it's the K mount that has probably kept them alive. With their total lack of any marketing in the US, I'm surprised that they're still going (but also very happy). Sony is so big that they can afford to constantly experiment with new products. Their business model is built on customers constantly buying their new technology and putting last years stuff out at the garage sale. They are using that same business model in their camera division. How it will ultimately work out for them in the long run remains to be seen. Photographers tend to buy into a brand and loyally stick with the product. Lenses are considered a long term investment. Abandoning a lens mount isn't a decision that shouldn't be made lightly. I don't think one can blame it all on marketing, as in some other parts of the world, sales are better than in the US, but not that much better. Pentax just seems like a very conservative company to me in adopting new ideas. I think its hurt them. Like equipping cameras with tilting monitors. You have to pay like $8000 grand to get a tilting mirror on Pentax 645Z, while Sony equips their most cheapest entry level cameras with them. I miss that on my K3, although i knew it when i bought it. Not invented here - not any good i guess. Pentax makes solid, durable, actual water resistant cameras - but is that enough in today's market - i hope so.

09-14-2015, 03:16 PM	#18
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	I think the future of A-mount is very questionable. With PDAF on sensor, the SLT is obsolete. My guess is Sony abandons the technology and makes the A-mount fully mirrorless if it continues. Bigger body A99II (better heat dissipation), bigger battery, more processing power, better ergonomics, established lens line-up. I'm pretty sure SLT is dead, not so sure about A-mount.

09-14-2015, 07:04 PM	#19
TheLens Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Waller Texas Posts: 96	I bought a Sony A77ii last year and wasn't impressed with it. I used both of my Sony lenses, Nikon lenses with an adapter, and couldn't get the same level of sharpness out of it as I can get with my Nikons. Maybe because of the fact that the photo is taken through the mirror??? And many camera shops will not clean the mirror because of the fear of damage. I ended up selling the whole kit a few months after I bought it.

09-14-2015, 08:39 PM	#20
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder I think the future of A-mount is very questionable. With PDAF on sensor, the SLT is obsolete. My guess is Sony abandons the technology and makes the A-mount fully mirrorless if it continues. Bigger body A99II (better heat dissipation), bigger battery, more processing power, better ergonomics, established lens line-up. I'm pretty sure SLT is dead, not so sure about A-mount. That sounds like a really good idea. The size of the A7 type bodies really seems to cause heating and other problems. But i think the mount would have to be updated to utilize the FE AF features.

09-15-2015, 03:03 AM	#21
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I have thought for awhile that Sony was done with the A mount. They have kept it around as much because its lenses fill in gaps for the FE mount, with the adapter. As they fill in the FE mount lens line up, there will be less need for it over time. It does seem like there is need for a little larger body. Of course NEX bodies are skinny by definition due to the shorter registration, but most of the current ones don't seem really well designed to deal with large/fast apertured zooms or telephotos.

09-15-2015, 07:03 AM	#22
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New ? Cameras!!!! \| sonyalpharumors 8 new FE lenses coming. Sony has registered the new name for the 24-70 G lens for FE mount so that one is probably coming soon. Hopefully F/2.8. These big F/2.8 zooms won't balance well with the A7 line. Sony needs a bigger body for these. Definitely need bigger batteries. I shot a wedding over the weekend mostly with my A7II and the OSS on the 90mm FE really sucks down the power. Went through 4 batteries.

09-15-2015, 10:04 AM	#23
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Originally posted by TheLens I bought a Sony A77ii last year and wasn't impressed with it. I used both of my Sony lenses, Nikon lenses with an adapter, and couldn't get the same level of sharpness out of it as I can get with my Nikons. Maybe because of the fact that the photo is taken through the mirror??? And many camera shops will not clean the mirror because of the fear of damage. I ended up selling the whole kit a few months after I bought it. SLR's don't take pictures through the mirror. It lifts up when you press the shutter. A little dirt on the mirror won't affect IQ at all. A new uncompressed Raw should be big news to Sony owners.

09-15-2015, 10:57 AM	#24
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New ? Cameras!!!! \| sonyalpharumors 8 new FE lenses coming. Sony has registered the new name for the 24-70 G lens for FE mount so that one is probably coming soon. Hopefully F/2.8. These big F/2.8 zooms won't balance well with the A7 line. Sony needs a bigger body for these. Definitely need bigger batteries. I shot a wedding over the weekend mostly with my A7II and the OSS on the 90mm FE really sucks down the power. Went through 4 batteries. I assume you know about turning on the airplane mode. It turns off the camera's attempt to find a network - i guess. The camera is now well-balanced with the 70-200f4 i just bought - but wow - what a lens - love it. I hope Sony continues to make the existing A7RII body size, plus a larger body for those that want it. I have no problem with the existing A7RII body size. If i did weddings - i might be singing a different tune.

09-15-2015, 02:32 PM	#25
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum I assume you know about turning on the airplane mode. It turns off the camera's attempt to find a network - i guess. The camera is now well-balanced with the 70-200f4 i just bought - but wow - what a lens - love it. I hope Sony continues to make the existing A7RII body size, plus a larger body for those that want it. I have no problem with the existing A7RII body size. If i did weddings - i might be singing a different tune. I don't have a problem with the body size. I actually like it. I was carrying my K-3 for most of the wedding, and then just put it away and shot with the A7II. The 55mm F/1.8 is a special lens. The 90mm macro has that 3D pop but its not as pronounced as it is the 55mm. The 90mm is getting to be a little big for the A7II body. Both lenses are almost too sharp for portrait work. I will buy the 35mm F/1.4 next month and that will round out my core lens needs for this system.

09-15-2015, 02:36 PM	#26
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by reeftool SLR's don't take pictures through the mirror. It lifts up when you press the shutter. A little dirt on the mirror won't affect IQ at all. (...) Sony Alpha 77 II is not a SLR but a SLT with a translucent mirror through which the photo is taken.

09-15-2015, 02:36 PM	#27
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by reeftool A new uncompressed Raw should be big news to Sony owners. I wish I had uncompressed RAW now. I just shot a wedding where part of the venue was in direct sun and part was shaded. As the bride walked up the isle she went from bright sun to shade and I'm having to bring up all my shadows a good bit with the sky properly exposed for the best balance. Had I exposed for the shade, my background would have been blown-out and could not be recovered. This is where the compressed RAW bothers me.

09-16-2015, 05:10 AM	#28
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	I don't think A mount is dead either. I think their focus shifted a little more on FE mount because they had quite a big gap in the lens line-up. Now that the gap is slowly closing, most probably eventually the attention will shift back to A mounts... and in the future will be easier to maintain both mounts once they have them at the same "level".

09-16-2015, 06:46 AM	#29
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	My 2c - A-mount is dead and buried. I see absolutely zero reason for Sony to continue it.

09-17-2015, 02:30 AM	#30
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac My 2c - A-mount is dead and buried. I see absolutely zero reason for Sony to continue it. I agree, and as full compatibility with A-mount to E/FE is done with adapters, there is not much use in manufacturing cameras with both mounts. And as the SLT concept is also pretty much dead as the PDAF on sensor will replace it, there is just not much reason for continue to produce mirrorless cameras with both mounts.