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09-30-2014, 09:55 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
please do stop. I agree that there is no need to debate on this as you can search it online whether your statements are indeed accurate and hopefully not motivated by brand loyalty as it obviously is showing. this is not an Apple Versus Samsung topic. reserve those useless debates elsewhere but not here. thank you.
Couldn't resist having the last word, did you? :-)

I'm not trying to make this into Apple vs Samsung, and I've already said I don't think it's an appropriate discussion. I only mention Apple as an example of someone who is not cheating on benchmarks (I also included Google and Motorola in my post as other examples) and apparently don't need to. If you interpret that post as being about Apple vs Samsung, then that's your issue and I'm not interested in arguing with you. For the record, I also own a Nexus tablet and a Sony Android Walkman.

10-01-2014, 10:23 AM   #32
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Unless Apple starts building ships, locomotives, and tall buildings among hundreds of other massive projects, I doubt seriously that a corporation that rivals the size of the majority of nations in the world is going to be very worried about a few phones or tablets? A diversified corporation with deep pockets can stay in the game for as long as it takes. How long ago was it when Samsung was not even a recognizable name in electronics? That certainly is not the case now, is it? From making a sensor for Pentax to a wide array of cameras in just a few short years says something about their abilities. Doesn't mean they have it all right....but sooner or later they will hit the magic formula and be a top camera competitor.....they said they would back in that interview several years back...and they are closing ground rapidly.
It's all a matter of staying power, and Samsung has plenty of that. Like them or hate them, they are here to stay.

Regards!
10-01-2014, 01:10 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
It's all a matter of staying power, and Samsung has plenty of that. Like them or hate them, they are here to stay.
Agreed - Samsung has defied the odds and have become a very successful conglomerate, and are not likely to disappear tomorrow.

They do make most of their profits from phones though, so they are not as diversified as they appear.

But going back to topic, all we really care about in this forum is their cameras. As I said before, the NX1 looks like a great camera on paper, but based on past experience with other Samsung products, I will be reluctant to try it. I'll wait for real life user experiences rather than marketing funded reviews first.
10-01-2014, 06:13 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I will be reluctant to try it. I'll wait for real life user experiences rather than marketing funded reviews first.
Christine....I think that can be said for almost any new electronic product regardless of the corporation involved. Few of the products hyped by the Mfg seem to live up to their claims. The competition is fierce and the tendency to bend test results can be seen across the board. Anyhow...it's always the "next model" that is going to reach perfection...and we tend to believe it, though it seldom gets all that close!

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10-01-2014, 07:08 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Christine....I think that can be said for almost any new electronic product regardless of the corporation involved. Few of the products hyped by the Mfg seem to live up to their claims. The competition is fierce and the tendency to bend test results can be seen across the board. Anyhow...it's always the "next model" that is going to reach perfection...and we tend to believe it, though it seldom gets all that close!
That is certainly true. Even for Apple - I always think it takes them about 2-3 tries on any new product before they get it right. On that basis, I am staying away from the new iPhone and the Watch.

However, I don't believe that any company should resort to cheating and other underhand behaviours, I am sorry but that goes against my moral principles and I won't buy from a company that does.

One of the advantages for the established players like Canon and Nikon (and even Pentax!) is that their DSLR designs are fairly mature and each new model is an incremental improvement on a known design.

Samsung isn't a new player, but I think they are a long way from the maturity plateau. I do hope they grow out of their adolescent phase where they focus on marketing and specs and start focusing on making great products. The NX1 may well be the turning point for them in the camera space, let's hope so.

Last edited by Christine Tham; 10-01-2014 at 07:15 PM.
10-02-2014, 09:08 AM   #36
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Christine, if you Wikipedia Samsung you will see that they are a Giant among Giants, and one of the largest in the world. Cameras and phones are only a small part of their conglomeration of sub corporations. If they will continue in the field of cameras I think they can provide some very innovative advances, they do have the deep pockets. This could benefit us all, in particular as camera sales have been on the decline lately. New and innovative products could lift interest and sales for everyone.....not the least being Samsung.

I had a conversation with a Samsung exec.on a long flight some years back, before Samsung was a household name, and in the course of it he said that all the branches of Samsung contributed some of their profits to new divisions until they achieved dominance in their field. As I watched them grow in electronics, I recalled the conversation and realized that their plan was a work of business art. Advertising by Samsung is off the charts, and sooner than later that pays off in sales. No one, not even Apple spends more on advertising......

Like you said, I hope this ends up with a more mature and responsible seller that can provide us with great products and new technology, not just another circus side show where there is a lot of sizzle...but no steak!

Regards!
10-02-2014, 02:42 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Christine, if you Wikipedia Samsung you will see that they are a Giant among Giants, and one of the largest in the world.
Doesn't really matter. Cheating is cheating. And it's not isolated either, there's been numerous documented incidents (including instances where Samsung has been convicted and fined in court). That indicates it's not just bad behaviour in individuals, it's part of the corporate culture.

If they acknowledge their mistake(s), and actively change their behaviour, then I'm happy to move along.They have already taken one big step - acknowledging the chemical poisoning of their factory workers and pledging support to their families, after years of denial and trying to sue anyone who even brings the subject up. But they need to also change their tendency to have misleading specs and bad behaviour in marketing.

Till then, I won't be contributing to their growth.


Last edited by Christine Tham; 10-02-2014 at 03:17 PM.
10-02-2014, 03:19 PM   #38
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Name practically any camera brand and one or more members of this forum are or have been a user.

I'm interested to know: does anyone shoot NX?
10-02-2014, 04:18 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Name practically any camera brand and one or more members of this forum are or have been a user.

I'm interested to know: does anyone shoot NX?
FWIW, I've had an NX Mini for several days now, doing the duties my Nikon P7700 did. :-)

I imagine the interface feel and the tethering/sharing/cloud stuff to be much the same as the NX1.

You can even use NX glass with an adapter but I'm not interested.
10-02-2014, 04:31 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
FWIW, I've had an NX Mini for several days now, doing the duties my Nikon P7700 did. :-)

I imagine the interface feel and the tethering/sharing/cloud stuff to be much the same as the NX1.

You can even use NX glass with an adapter but I'm not interested.
Please tell us more, would love to hear your thoughts on usability and performance. Despite my reservations about Samsung as company, it seems like an interesting camera.
10-03-2014, 04:31 AM   #41
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Less expensive than the RX100 and new Canon 1", Christine, with Lightroom thrown in.

Typical cheap Samsung build. A folding touchscreen substitutes sliders for control dials, does focus point selection and is better than menus as an interface.

It has NFC and WiFi, so you can Dropbox, Picasa, Facebook or email pics and Youtube videos wherever you have access. You can tether to their phone app, which works quite well.

Image quality is better than the P7700/G15 cameras, and I assume, the Q.

I've ordered the 24mm equivalent prime so the whole thing can go in a pants pocket. The kit zoom I have (same range as the RX 100 except very slow) is image stabilized but large enough that I've done what I often do with my NEX 3 - body in one pocket, lens in another.

It's small enough that it will go in the back jersey pocket if road biking. When mountain biking or kayaking I have a backpack so the better NEX will get the gig. When bushwalking the K-30 is packed.


Last edited by clackers; 10-03-2014 at 05:39 AM.
10-03-2014, 06:51 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Couldn't resist having the last word, did you? :-)

I'm not trying to make this into Apple vs Samsung, and I've already said I don't think it's an appropriate discussion. I only mention Apple as an example of someone who is not cheating on benchmarks (I also included Google and Motorola in my post as other examples) and apparently don't need to. If you interpret that post as being about Apple vs Samsung, then that's your issue and I'm not interested in arguing with you. For the record, I also own a Nexus tablet and a Sony Android Walkman.
actually it 's a plea to you to discuss something "camera related" not brand related. besides, its the actual contents of your posts and easily identified. it doesn't take rocket science what you are trying to imply which contains inaccuracies.

---------- Post added 10-03-2014 at 07:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
That is certainly true. Even for Apple - I always think it takes them about 2-3 tries on any new product before they get it right. On that basis, I am staying away from the new iPhone and the Watch.

However, I don't believe that any company should resort to cheating and other underhand behaviours, I am sorry but that goes against my moral principles and I won't buy from a company that does.

One of the advantages for the established players like Canon and Nikon (and even Pentax!) is that their DSLR designs are fairly mature and each new model is an incremental improvement on a known design.

Samsung isn't a new player, but I think they are a long way from the maturity plateau. I do hope they grow out of their adolescent phase where they focus on marketing and specs and start focusing on making great products. The NX1 may well be the turning point for them in the camera space, let's hope so.
I believe Samsung just started out to go mainstream with their nx at around 2009. not newly new, but fairly new nonetheless. for me, it takes about 10 years before certain product would reach their maturity. in fairness to Samsung, their cameras and sensor are competitively good and somehow there at the level of mainstream brands, but not at the top of the food chain.

---------- Post added 10-03-2014 at 07:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Doesn't really matter. Cheating is cheating. And it's not isolated either, there's been numerous documented incidents (including instances where Samsung has been convicted and fined in court). That indicates it's not just bad behaviour in individuals, it's part of the corporate culture.

If they acknowledge their mistake(s), and actively change their behaviour, then I'm happy to move along.They have already taken one big step - acknowledging the chemical poisoning of their factory workers and pledging support to their families, after years of denial and trying to sue anyone who even brings the subject up. But they need to also change their tendency to have misleading specs and bad behaviour in marketing.

Till then, I won't be contributing to their growth.
once again, please stay on topic. besides, Apple is also guilty of such doing as well (remember the suicides in China?), so please spare the corporate morality debate. it holds no bearing on this thread.

---------- Post added 10-03-2014 at 07:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Name practically any camera brand and one or more members of this forum are or have been a user.

I'm interested to know: does anyone shoot NX?
I have tried and used the NX before. I think it was 2010 or 2011 I think. I did have my bias against Samsung as a camera back then because it was an unknown brand. I considered the brand by accident. it was an nx100 that I bought for my wife as a gift. besides, a $300 camera + 2 lenses is a difficult deal to pass up. I never knew I would end up liking the camera and the brand that much. the sensor was very good and the build was surprising good as well. that ended me having two more cameras which are the NX200 and NX Galaxy which I again bought during a sale which each camera cost less than $500. I would say the camera is competitive in IQ, performance and build but far from perfect. the buffer speed of the NX200 and Galaxy is slow, especially with those huge raw files. jpeg however is a different story and doesn't compromise speed but the image quality is certainly it's weakness. the raw however are awesome. I had the NX200 converted to full spectrum use for extreme B/W and IR detail pictures. the lenses are mature in my opinion and are of excellent quality and up there with some of the best lens counterparts except probably the OTUS lenses. the lens' IQ perhaps is largely influenced by Pentax and Schneider design so it's not like they are building from scratch but just have to improve the design.
10-03-2014, 07:51 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Name practically any camera brand and one or more members of this forum are or have been a user.

I'm interested to know: does anyone shoot NX?
I have tried and used the NX before. I think it was 2010 or 2011 I think. I did have my bias against Samsung as a camera back then because it was an unknown brand. I considered the brand by accident. it was an nx100 that I bought for my wife as a gift. besides, a $300 camera + 2 lenses is a difficult deal to pass up. I never knew I would end up liking the camera and the brand that much. the sensor was very good and the build was surprising good as well. that ended me having two more cameras which are the NX200 and NX Galaxy which I again bought during a sale which each camera cost less than $500. I would say the camera is competitive in IQ, performance and build but far from perfect. the buffer speed of the NX200 and Galaxy is slow, especially with those huge raw files. jpeg however is a different story and doesn't compromise speed but the image quality is certainly it's weakness. the raw however are awesome. I had the NX200 converted to full spectrum use for extreme B/W and IR detail pictures. the lenses are mature in my opinion and are of excellent quality and up there with some of the best lens counterparts except probably the OTUS lenses. the lens' IQ perhaps is largely influenced by Pentax and Schneider design so it's not like they are building from scratch but just have to improve the design.
10-03-2014, 08:03 AM   #44
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Show me a camera, any camera, any brand, and I'll show you its shortcomings.....or someone will, and they will do it quickly...on this Forum or others.
It's like searching for the perfect wife......you can look forever...unless you find a Mrs Rupert that loves to buy new cameras and cars for herself that just happen to match your own desires!
She wanted just what I did...even the brown leather case for my Toy Camera...amazingly lucky, I am!


I think we are pretty lucky to have so many choices of cameras, to suit most any need or situation encountered.....you too?

Regards!
10-03-2014, 01:50 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
actually it 's a plea to you to discuss something "camera related" not brand related. besides, its the actual contents of your posts and easily identified. it doesn't take rocket science what you are trying to imply which contains inaccuracies.
Super LOL - you just can't stop, can you?

Here is a hint - you can't simultaneously take a high ground and appoint yourself Forum Police and take a position by claiming that a post is "inaccurate".

I have already said several times - I have zero interest in engaging with a debate with you. If you are trying to bait me into defending Apple, try and understand this. I spent most of the last 30 years avoiding buying Apple. I don't think Steve Jobs was a very nice man behind the myth and Apple has engaged in their share of shonky behaviour. They seem to have grown out of that, and I am hoping and praying that Samsung will do the same.

So, please, stop. Thank you.

Last edited by Christine Tham; 10-03-2014 at 02:10 PM.
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