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10-30-2014, 08:16 PM   #61
osv
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Pentax still offers the most compact lens line of any brand.
not with primes they don't... compared to sony, the pentax glass is lower quality, and it's heavier.

the fe 35/2.8 weighs 120g.
the fe 55/1.8 weighs 281g.

Smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited weighs 215g.
Smc PENTAX DA Star 55mm F1.4 SDM weighs 375g.

i haven't looked at the sony zooms, because so far they haven't been very impressive.

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The OVF/EVF debate will rage for a long, long time, I get on with the a6000 EVF, but I breathe a heavy sigh of relief when I raise the OVF after a series of EVF shots.
the a7r evf is better than the a6000, and given the 36mp resolution, i'd imagine that it has more zoom when magnified.

of course, that won't matter for people who only use autofocus and autoexposure.

---------- Post added 10-30-2014 at 08:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Think fast-paced rodeos in low evening light with an EVF, or a football game under poor stadium lighting, or birding at twilight, for example. Mirrorless video works, but action photography is a drag with mirrorless, even with good high-res EVF's like those Sony offers on my NEX.
the nex evf isn't as good as the a7x series, and it probably doesn't have the same degree of magnification.

i've been able to shoot sports with the a7r... thanks to the xlnt evf, manual focusing actually works, unlike my old pentax ovf.

here it is at 10,000iso, in the worst possible ambient light, with an old pentax-mount vivitar 28/2.0, at f/2.8... that is an ugly aperture with that lens, on full frame :-0






Last edited by osv; 10-30-2014 at 08:28 PM.
10-30-2014, 10:39 PM   #62
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Technology in the mirrorless camp seems to be changing fast, in the DSLR camp - not so much.

A. Last week i went shooting with a friend in a dim old hotel thats been locked up from the public for the last 60 years. My friend was using his new A7S shooting at 80,000 iso. we were both using tripods, but at 1300 iso for me, the shots were taking a lot longer.

B. In a recent article, Samsung outlined advanced features of the NX1, including really short lag times between shots.

C. At Photokina, Canon announced that they are working on a large sensor mirrorless camera. In my opinion, Canon would not have announced that if they didn't feel it was absolutely necessary for competition.

D. If one buys a new lens for their DSLR, the first thing that must be done is to check for front or backfocus, and then to log correction factors in the micro adjust section of the menu. With mirrorless, no need to do that old technology step. You can just install a new mirrorless lens and use it right away. Now thats progress.

We all have opinions on this technology change, and i respect that. For me though, i doubt that i will ever buy another DSLR.
10-30-2014, 11:00 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
not with primes they don't... compared to sony, the pentax glass is lower quality, and it's heavier.

the fe 35/2.8 weighs 120g.
the fe 55/1.8 weighs 281g.

Smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited weighs 215g.
Smc PENTAX DA Star 55mm F1.4 SDM weighs 375g.
Compact refers to size, not weight. Pentax lenses are smaller and heavier. Performance depends on which lenses are compared. The Sony 35mm f1.8 and 50mm 1.8 are larger and do not have better IQ than comparable Pentax lenses.
10-30-2014, 11:51 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote

the fe 35/2.8 weighs 120g.
the fe 55/1.8 weighs 281g.

Smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited weighs 215g.
Smc PENTAX DA Star 55mm F1.4 SDM weighs 375g.

The DA 35 2.4 is only 124g, and has full frame coverage.

That DA Star is f1.4 and a character lens with WR.

10-31-2014, 05:19 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
While I agree that EVFs will get better, it is mostly because they have so much room to improve. I don't see why anyone should feel that they have to jump to some mirrorless camera today, since none of the mirrorless cameras are conclusively better than the mirrored DSLRs on the market. Of course it depends on what you are doing, but nobody can say today that one camera system is 100% better than some other camera system; they still compete and continue to do so.

Keep in mind that the lens mount is a gateway to selling you native lenses (for stability, AF, lens corrections, etc), and whether you go to mFT, E-mount, or even Q, those newer lenses will never ever be able to be mounted on any other body. This is a one-way trip through the gates. "But I am perfectly happy using my adapted glass." Well, you are aging as quickly as I am, and your eyes and hands won't be so good forever, and Sony and Panasonic know it. In the meantime, both mirrorless and mirrored cameras will continue to improve. So if you must choose today, choose wisely, and don't complain when Olympus or Canon or whoever comes out with a body that can do IBIS, dual-pixel AF with lenses that don't breathe, and/or real mechanical focus rings, and you are sitting there with your 2014 E-mount lens in your hand.
These are very good points and despite all the good that one can say about MILC, the lenses are more proprietary than ever and will not work on any other brand w/o reverse engineering of its electronics at the least.
So yes, food for serious thought over "I am jumping ship and this is the future, everyone else is a dinosaur"
For all we know, Sony's declining fortunes may mean they exit cameras in the near future, or their not too good track record on system forms (A, SLT, E-mount, FE mount) may move them to the next big thing with limited compatibility to the current system.
The same easily applies to Oly and the other MILC makers as well.


Its certainly a risk any user has to evaluate and take according to their own needs/decision.

For me, I still distrust Sony, so I keep to the minimum of FE lenses, just the FE55/1.8 for the AF.


QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
not with primes they don't... compared to sony, the pentax glass is lower quality, and it's heavier.

the fe 35/2.8 weighs 120g.
the fe 55/1.8 weighs 281g.

Smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited weighs 215g.
Smc PENTAX DA Star 55mm F1.4 SDM weighs 375g.

i haven't looked at the sony zooms, because so far they haven't been very impressive.



the a7r evf is better than the a6000, and given the 36mp resolution, i'd imagine that it has more zoom when magnified.

of course, that won't matter for people who only use autofocus and autoexposure.

---------- Post added 10-30-2014 at 08:25 PM ----------



the nex evf isn't as good as the a7x series, and it probably doesn't have the same degree of magnification.

i've been able to shoot sports with the a7r... thanks to the xlnt evf, manual focusing actually works, unlike my old pentax ovf.

here it is at 10,000iso, in the worst possible ambient light, with an old pentax-mount vivitar 28/2.0, at f/2.8... that is an ugly aperture with that lens, on full frame :-0




Can't really compare the lenses.
Different ppl will weight the pros/cons differently.
DA is metal, is smaller as a lens.
DA35ltd is macro too.
DA55ltd is f1.4 and more of a portrait orientated lens (for what its worth)
Also, the FE35 does have a lot of vignetting for a 35mm f2.8, that needs software intervention.

Of course, the FE's are also lighter and sharper.
Faster AF too for the FE55.


For the generic shooter, I do think EVFs are totally adequate (in fact it works great for me )
But there certainly are things that it can't do as well now.
Sports for example.
Outdoor sports with enough distance for DOF and wider shots are fine.
I'm talking about tighter shots (worst will be indoors in an arena or indoor stadium ), fast AF, fast lens, good iso, all adds up fast.
The current EVF can't keep up due to the lag in lower light and so can't the AF as the contrast drops and focus struggles.
10-31-2014, 05:56 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The DA 35 2.4 is only 124g, and has full frame coverage.

That DA Star is f1.4 and a character lens with WR.
i picked pentax lenses with the best p.q.; the da 35 2.4 does not measure up in p.q.

of course both lenses i listed are ff... are all of these pentax lenses ff?
10-31-2014, 06:01 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
are all of these pentax lenses ff?
Those two both work fine on FF.

10-31-2014, 06:01 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Compact refers to size, not weight. Pentax lenses are smaller and heavier. Performance depends on which lenses are compared. The Sony 35mm f1.8 and 50mm 1.8 are larger and do not have better IQ than comparable Pentax lenses.
lets see actual weights, not speculation.

if you put the cameras and lenses up side by side, the sony package is much smaller, and shorter, it doesn't have an obsolete mirror to deal with.

pentax does not have the smallest lenses on the market.

---------- Post added 10-31-2014 at 06:04 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Those two both work fine on FF.
you are saying that they rated for ff? or were they just tested on a pentax film body?

that's not to say that the sony fe35 is perfect on ff, it has a notable vignetting problem, that gets hidden by camera body firmware correction.

---------- Post added 10-31-2014 at 06:18 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
These are very good points and despite all the good that one can say about MILC, the lenses are more proprietary than ever and will not work on any other brand w/o reverse engineering of its electronics at the least.
interesting point... i looked for an aperture ring in the pics of those new pentax lenses, and i couldn't find one.

would they be usable on the a7x series.
10-31-2014, 12:29 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
The current EVF can't keep up due to the lag in lower light and so can't the AF as the contrast drops and focus struggles.
I don't know about the EVF, but the AF on the A7s is rated down to -4ev; the K3 is rated down to the -3ev (in fact thats the reason i bought the K3 and it has not disappointed me in the low light AF - amazing).

I just checked my Nex6 in low light - when it senses a wall nearby - i suppose from the focus point, it turns on the focus assist light. When i focused farther away, it leaves the AF assist light off and turns up the gain on the exposure - until the AF is achieved, and then takes the picture at the correct but darker exposure level. Pretty smart programming and an older generation Nex too.

My point is that improvements in mirrorless are coming rapidly now, not only from Sony, but Samsung, Canon, Nikon (v1 series), Olympus, Panasonic and others. Its exciting to see and watch. At some things, the DSLR is better, at other things the mirrorless are better. Folks should buy what they need or want - as always.
10-31-2014, 01:29 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
interesting point... i looked for an aperture ring in the pics of those new pentax lenses, and i couldn't find one.

would they be usable on the a7x series.

Yes, but those will need an adapter that can move the aperture lever for DA lenses.
There are ones made by Kipon as well the usual ebay ones.
Usually they are indicated to work with DA lenses and has aperture adjustment.
This is the same for the newer Nikon lenses.



QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I don't know about the EVF, but the AF on the A7s is rated down to -4ev; the K3 is rated down to the -3ev (in fact thats the reason i bought the K3 and it has not disappointed me in the low light AF - amazing).

I just checked my Nex6 in low light - when it senses a wall nearby - i suppose from the focus point, it turns on the focus assist light. When i focused farther away, it leaves the AF assist light off and turns up the gain on the exposure - until the AF is achieved, and then takes the picture at the correct but darker exposure level. Pretty smart programming and an older generation Nex too.

My point is that improvements in mirrorless are coming rapidly now, not only from Sony, but Samsung, Canon, Nikon (v1 series), Olympus, Panasonic and others. Its exciting to see and watch. At some things, the DSLR is better, at other things the mirrorless are better. Folks should buy what they need or want - as always.
Interesting points about the NEX6 AF assist light.
Yeah, I can still remember how they will always turn on at the easiest moments to make sure they got focus and how Pentax cameras are so stubborn on not turning it on that AF in poor light can be slower than the cheapest models because of this reluctance.

A lot remains to be seen/proven for speed and accuracy in low light for a higher MP count MILC as 12mp really is very forgiving when it comes to accuracy (and lens quality) vs even 24mp.
Any idea how the A6000 does?
Things are certainly moving more and fast for MILCs.
I'd be happy DSLR or MILC whichever way it goes so long as my lenses work on them
11-09-2014, 05:50 PM   #71
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I hope we do not have to go to Sony. I had an A6000 and loved it. But, although some of the e-mount primes are nice, there are not usable e-mount long lenses. The Pentax lenses just feel nicer, are weather sealed, stabilized by the body etc. So I decided to give up the second system, not because the A6000 couldn't perform but because it did not have the support system. In other words, the Sony system was very close to being what I wanted. Pentax was just more useful and more comfortable for me. By the way, this forum played a big part in my decision. It is just more active, interesting and helpful than what I found for Sony emount.
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