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11-30-2014, 03:28 PM   #151
osv
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Yes? Does that really matter? Mass appeal usually means blah products. As long as the company stays profitable as it seems to be under Ricoh I am happy with a niche product. If I was a pro I would want pro support, but I am not. My last several Pentax DSLRs have exceeded my expectations. Most of the lenses are exquisite. If they are happy with the niche, so am I!
agreed, and by the same token, i'm happy owning an a7 niche product... but none of that is relevant to the point that i was making.

i'm responding to people who appear to be confused about where their platform choice sits in the big picture.

claiming that "i didn't see an a7 on my trip" is silly, when the camera platform that you are so biased towards doesn't have even one model that ranks in the amazon top 100 digital camera sales list.

we've seen that multiple times out here... "i didn't see it, so it can't be selling well, it's not a valid camera choice"

11-30-2014, 06:00 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote

we've seen that multiple times out here... "i didn't see it, so it can't be selling well, it's not a valid camera choice"
But that list you linked to (as usual with you) is even sillier, OSV.

If we paid attention to that we wouldn't have the cameras we own, we'd all have a crap Nikon P&S instead.
11-30-2014, 08:34 PM   #153
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Golly, is anyone still talking about the A7ii and A9? I am not likely to buy either one but it was interesting for awhile to hear about the new cameras.!
11-30-2014, 09:35 PM   #154
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Apologies if this has already been posted, but SonyAlphaRumours posted a nice A7 II brochure by Sony for download a few days ago (PDF 37 MB).

Has all the specs, some glossy pics etc.

12-01-2014, 10:33 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
But that list you linked to (as usual with you) is even sillier, OSV.

If we paid attention to that we wouldn't have the cameras we own, we'd all have a crap Nikon P&S instead.
you doing that wouldn't surprise me

really tho, why comment when you don't have the slightest idea what we are talking about.
12-03-2014, 10:16 PM   #156
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Sony doing what they would do years ago - absolutely flood the market with products to raise brand awareness. Now, some people might cry fowl at their being products being released with too many nuances and problems - but no product is 100% perfect. They have an absolute mammoth R&D department, and they have made it to no secret they are gunning for Nikon and Canon. Their recent presentation aimed at showcasing their market strategy and bringing 20 FE lenses by the end of 2016. That's an impressive target. They're certainly going for the "shock and awe" treatment. Giving all of us with a wishlist what we wanted, albeit with some compromises

RX100 series - still the king of the compacts
RX1 - first full frame fixed camera, almost cult status
Rx10 - first bridge camera with a decent sized sensor and constant aperture zoom
A7 series - first mirrorless FF bodies, now with flipping added IBIS. OM-D on steroids?

This is what happens when serious money and targets are set in place. I REALLY want a Pentax FF body. When that will happen though is anybodies call. Sony have really taken the initiative and gone for the CaNikon jugular - you have to be impressed with their efforts thus far. There's even talk of a 'pro' A9 coming early next year. This flooding tactic is certainly shaking the industry up, i'm seeing a lot of A7 bodies around these days
12-04-2014, 03:51 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
no pentax camera is on the amazon list of best-selling digital cameras?? Amazon Best Sellers: Best Digital Cameras

the entire pentax platform is a niche product.
What does your list mean? As far as I can see, it is populated with Canon Elph cameras and Nikon CoolPix, with an occasional Canon T5 model thrown in. At number 16, is the Nikon D7000 -- a camera that has been out of production for years (it also come in at number 27). At number 37, there is a set of Sony Headphones and while I didn't do much investigation, they don't seem to be able to take photos at all -- either digitally or with film. 80 percent of the cameras on this list are point and shoot cameras and yet, as far as I can tell the point and shoot market is drying up, killed by the cell phone camera -- yet Amazon's list indicates that this is where things are booming.

I just don't buy this list as an indication of anything at all, except that it probably does indicate that Canon and Nikon over produce and so are still selling ancient products at markedly discounted prices years after their discontinuation date.

12-04-2014, 07:15 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What does your list mean? As far as I can see, it is populated with Canon Elph cameras and Nikon CoolPix, with an occasional Canon T5 model thrown in. At number 16, is the Nikon D7000 -- a camera that has been out of production for years (it also come in at number 27). At number 37, there is a set of Sony Headphones and while I didn't do much investigation, they don't seem to be able to take photos at all -- either digitally or with film. 80 percent of the cameras on this list are point and shoot cameras and yet, as far as I can tell the point and shoot market is drying up, killed by the cell phone camera -- yet Amazon's list indicates that this is where things are booming.
If you filter the list to just DSLRs, and look around #65 or so, you'll find the Pentax K1000.
12-04-2014, 07:27 AM   #159
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The K5 is the only camera I have with I.S. - and it's the camera I use least. As an old film shooter, I'm used to shooting at ISO of 100 to 400, always available light, and a lot of shots in the 1/15 to 1/60 shutter speed range.
I got an A7 primarily for my old S.Takumar and Pentax SMC-M lenses, and I couldn't be happier with it. With the electronic first curtain shutter vibration is not an issue, and the high ISO again means available light work really doesn't need I.S.
A last-night grab shot shows what I mean. A7, Pentax SMC-M 50 f1.4, 1,000 ISO, mixed tungsten fluorescent lighting, aperture priority. Manual focus with no focus aid - just used the EFV as I would a film SLR like an LX. This gave a shutter of 1/50.
Colors match what the scene looked like to me. The crop shows how normal manual focus turned out, the detail of these old film lenses, and while you may detect a bit of motion blur, I find it more than acceptable.
full frame:
Name:  A7 Full Frame.jpg
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Full Crop
Name:  A7 SMC-M 50 1.4 crop.jpg
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Size:  106.5 KB

I'll skip the A7II - the A7 does just fine for me, and all my old Pentax lenses do all I need.
12-04-2014, 08:02 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
If you filter the list to just DSLRs, and look around #65 or so, you'll find the Pentax K1000.
But I still want to know what the overall list means. Does it mean that point and shoots are killing SLR sales on Amazon? Because that's the way I read it. If the overall list doesn't mean anything, then why would breaking out the SLR component mean anything?

Even looking at the SLR listings, looks like the A7 series of cameras is being out sold by a bunch of other things, including the Nikon D7000 camera (at both positions 3 and 6), the A77 II, Sony MDR-V55/BR DJ Style Headphones, the K1000, the K50, the k3, the K5 IIs, the Nikon Df and bunch of other stuff. What does that mean? Maybe that the list is meaningless. Maybe it means that what we in the forum get excited about is not what actually sells to the general population.
12-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
Sony doing what they would do years ago - absolutely flood the market with products to raise brand awareness. Now, some people might cry fowl at their being products being released with too many nuances and problems - but no product is 100% perfect.
It's not enough to raise brand awareness, you also have to create a positive impression for your brand, and when you release products with perplexing gaffes, it creates a bad impression. Especially when the problems defy common sense, as is the case with the misplaced shutter button on the original A7 models. Sony should be able to figure that one out on their own, without recourse to customer feedback. Also keep in mind: in the camera business, it's very difficult to compete against the company with a much larger, established user base. Not every photographer is a gear enthusiast/technophile who will immediately fall in love with the newest technology or the newest photography paradigm; nor is every photographer willing to throw all their gear on ebay and change at the drop at of a hat. It's very hard to compete against Canon and Nikon. Their huge customer base gives them enormous advantages over the competition.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
Their recent presentation aimed at showcasing their market strategy and bringing 20 FE lenses by the end of 2016.
Impressive, but, in the B&H catalogue, Canon has at 56 EF and Nikon has 52 FF lenses right now (and an even larger number of legacy and 3rd party offerings). Even lowly Pentax has 34 lenses in their current lineup.
12-04-2014, 11:31 AM - 1 Like   #162
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I strongly feel like Sony A7ii might be my next camera... the more I read about it the more I want it and that price that they put it at sounds just right.
Will probably wait until spring (if I can fight the urge to buy it until then) just to see what else might come up... but this for me is a very solid contender. The k-01 will be its sidekick.
12-04-2014, 12:34 PM   #163
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I've seen some heated criticism of Sony for getting some things wrong on their E and FE mount cameras, but thankfully there's a lot more praise for all the things they did right.

And one of the things they are doing right, they are not giving up on the models just because they have a oops mistake now and then, they are continuing to refine the models, at a quite rapid rate.

Examples:
A. Introducing 5-axis IBIS on the A7 II. Pentaxians should clearly appreciate this introduction because of the SR in body on their cameras

B. The totally silent Electronic shutter on the A7S. Sure, it may not be something one would use for all situations, but guess what? NO NIKON OR CANON FF camera, and there must be about a dozen between the 2, even offer the option. When one is in quiet performance and art events, the last thing one wishes is to announce themselves by the WHANG of a shutter. For some reason, FF shutters are noiser than APS shutters. The electronic option to be fully silent is greatly appreciated. And is on my wish list.

C. The Sony FF body is significantly lighter and smaller than the Pentax K3 APS body. Sure, you may not want that if you are a wildlife shooter or an NFL shooter on the sidelines, but there are many of us who most frequently use lenses smaller than 75mm and don't need a large body grip. No FF body in Canikon can best that claim.

D. AF performance has been greatly improved via hybrid methods ala A6000.

Sure, Sony has made mistakes. But look at the impressive achievements that have occurred because of the risks they were willing to take. The glass is half full and is now filling.
12-04-2014, 02:37 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What does your list mean? As far as I can see, it is populated with Canon Elph cameras and Nikon CoolPix, with an occasional Canon T5 model thrown in. At number 16, is the Nikon D7000 -- a camera that has been out of production for years (it also come in at number 27).
do a search on google shopping, there are a bunch of vendors selling d7000 cameras... some refurb, but there is a lot of new grey market, for instance:
Nikon D7000 DX-Format Digital SLR Camera Body

the d7100 was announced early last year, so the d7000 was still being sold well into last year... combine it's oily shutter problem with plummeting dslr sales, there was probably an overstock of inventory.

the headphones, i don't know

the list itself is: "Amazon Best Sellers
Our most popular products based on sales. Updated hourly."

it's what the public is buying... no pentax of any kind, and no a7 series.

we are arguing about niche products here
12-04-2014, 02:47 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
we are arguing about niche products here
And ILC should be a niche product. General population doesn't want the hassle of changing lenses, or for that matter, even being aware there is such thing as a lens that should be changed. Good enough camera appliances should eventually eat all but professional and enthusiast segments of the market. Guess that's already happening with phones.
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