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11-19-2014, 05:58 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
According to the link in the OP, the increase in weight is due - at least in part - to the redesigned grip.

I made no mention of your "needs and priorities" so I don't know why you would even make that statement.
Not interested in arguing based on supposed specs of a camera that hasn't been announced yet.

However, when you make a statement like "IBIS adds very little in terms of size & weight. If you don't like IBIS, simply turn it off." you are making a number of assumptions about my needs and priorities.

You are assuming that your perception of what is "very little" in terms of size and weight is the same as mine.

You are assuming "simply turn it off" is an acceptable solution for me.

Let me state clearly. Both those assumptions are not correct.

---------- Post added 11-20-2014 at 12:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Also I can't see why people would choose Pentax if size is of the highest priority.
When I bought my first DSLR (Pentax * ist D) it was widely advertised as the "world's smallest and lightest DSLR" - that was a significant factor in my decision to choose it over Canon and Nikon (plus the fact I was already a Pentax film shooter). And I was a Pentax film shooter because Pentax did (and still do) make lenses that are relatively smaller and lighter compared to their competitors.

Size is still a priority (I wouldn't say it's the "highest priority", but it is a priority), which is why I don't own any Pentax DSLR bodies any more. The K-01 I am keeping as a toy, and as a reminder of my Pentax heritage.

The A7 is already too big and heavy for me, so I won't be investing in a model that is (supposedly) bigger and heavier, if the major significant feature over the previous body is a feature I don't want or need. However, if it turns out the camera has other desirable features (like 4K video, improved AF borrowed from A6000, faster fps) then I will consider it (and I will shut up about IBIS, I promise).

So claims that the difference is "very little" mean nothing to me, given that the existing model is already too big and heavy. As I mentioned before, I will gladly pay a premium for a body with exactly the same features as the current A7 series, but smaller and lighter.


Last edited by Christine Tham; 11-19-2014 at 06:30 PM.
11-19-2014, 06:53 PM   #32
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Now we understand each other, peace in Pentaxland!
11-19-2014, 07:22 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Again, not interested in your personal opinion on whether there is a problem or not.
But its OK for you to assume that there will be one because it has IBIS? I owned the K-5 and I have never seen any evidence of IBIS causing blur. There was some talk about mirror slap on the K-7, but not IBIS.
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Don't care about whether it can be turned off or not, that is not the issue. Also don't care whether you (or anyone else) thinks the difference is significant or not - I am saying it's significant for me.
And we don't care if its is significant to you or not. Its a highly desirable feature for many people and if implemented right improves image quality for people who shoot handheld. IF weight is such a major factor for you then stick to your iPhone camera. You wont have to worry about IBIS.
11-19-2014, 07:41 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
And we don't care if its is significant to you or not. Its a highly desirable feature for many people and if implemented right improves image quality for people who shoot handheld. IF weight is such a major factor for you then stick to your iPhone camera. You wont have to worry about IBIS.

Ahhh, but doesn't the latest iPhone 6 have IBIS?

11-19-2014, 07:42 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
Ahhh, but doesn't the latest iPhone 6 have IBIS?
It does? Chris might have to give up photography.....
11-19-2014, 08:25 PM   #36
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I think its just the iPhone 6 Plus that has IBIS.
11-19-2014, 09:53 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But its OK for you to assume that there will be one because it has IBIS? I owned the K-5 and I have never seen any evidence of IBIS causing blur. There was some talk about mirror slap on the K-7, but not IBIS.

And we don't care if its is significant to you or not. Its a highly desirable feature for many people and if implemented right improves image quality for people who shoot handheld. IF weight is such a major factor for you then stick to your iPhone camera. You wont have to worry about IBIS.
I'm not assuming anything. I just said I was anti-IBIS because I don't need it, and gave my reasons, one of which is the "potential" for blur - I am not interested in having arguments about whether that potential is real or not. If you don't recall the big controversy about whether K-5 and K-7 shake reduction causes blurriness or not, good on you. Believe whatever you want.

If you don't care whether it is significant to me or not, then don't bother replying to my posts. I can assure you whether you think a feature is highly desirable (or not), or whether you think there is a problem or not, has zero impact on my decision making process. No need to give me advice on what I should or shouldn't be buying - I just don't care. It's not personal - I have nothing against you and I could say the same for any other person.

11-19-2014, 10:00 PM   #38
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11-19-2014, 10:44 PM   #39
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I saw the A mount adapter flash by in that video. Imagine if someone made an electronic K-mount adapter that would control aperture and focusing functions! So it's a little bulky... would that be OK?
11-19-2014, 11:08 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Pentax issues a warning to turn off shake reduction when camera is mounted on tripod - that indicates that there may be a potential issue
I think all stabilisation systems acknowledge the risk of 'self-induced blur' or other IQ damaging stuff being introduced when the camera body (or lens) is tripod mounted. Nikon, for example, in the manual for the 70-200 with VR, says to turn off VR when using it tripod mounted.

Even Wikipedia knows about the risks of stabilisation:
QuoteQuote:
"Most manufacturers suggest that the IS feature of a lens be turned off when the lens is mounted on a tripod as it can cause erratic results and is generally unnecessary. Many modern image stabilization lenses (notably Canon's more recent IS lenses) are able to auto-detect that they are tripod-mounted (as a result of extremely low vibration readings) and disable IS automatically to prevent this and any consequent image quality reduction."
Personally, I always kept SR off on my K200D, because I thought it was doing more harm than good. But every subsequent Pentax I've used, I rarely turn if off. I think the algorithms that manage Pentax SR (and the vibration and movement sensors that feed the SR system) are constantly being improved.

Last edited by rawr; 11-19-2014 at 11:13 PM.
11-19-2014, 11:13 PM   #41
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IBIS, the last reason to stay with Pentax is gone too - I should sell one of my A7 or A7r soon to get A7II
11-19-2014, 11:23 PM   #42
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The linked video of the A7II makes IBIS the sole selling point of the camera.

I guess IBIS going to be a part of all Sony's in future.
11-19-2014, 11:24 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I think all stabilisation systems acknowledge the risk of 'self-induced blur' or other IQ damaging stuff being introduced when the camera body (or lens) is tripod mounted. Nikon, for example, in the manual for the 70-200 with VR, says to turn off VR when using it tripod mounted.

Even Wikipedia knows about the risks of stabilisation:


Personally, I always kept SR off on my K200D, because I thought it was doing more harm than good. But every subsequent Pentax I've used, I rarely turn if off. I think the algorithms that manage Pentax SR (and the vibration and movement sensors that feed the SR system) are constantly being improved.
Agree.

I seem to recall someone posting some results showing that it can be an issue under specific conditions, and at a specific shutter speed, on the K-7, and also the K-5. However, my experience with the K-01 is that generally the feature works well, although I am not sure I trust it.

To claim that it is not a problem on millions of cameras I think is wishful thinking. The truth is - we don't know, and we certainly don't know for a new implementation on a camera that not only doesn't exist, but hasn't been announced yet.

My personal feeling is that it's an unnecessary feature. Sensors are so good these days I prefer to shoot at a higher shooting speed and a higher ISO. And IBIS does not reduce motion blur, which some people don't seem to understand. I've had a few people say stabilisation isn't working on their camera, because they took a picture of a moving child or pet in a dark room, and guess what the result is blurry.
11-19-2014, 11:29 PM   #44
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Sony showing the A7II IBIS in more detail.

11-19-2014, 11:56 PM   #45
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Yes, it looks like Sony finally announced this camera, at least in Japan.

Apart from IBIS and XAVC S, Sony is also claiming faster AF but it doesn't seem they have incorporated the A6000 AF technology. Also the continuous frame rate isn't that high. So this is not the "sports/action" A7 that some of us have been hoping for (judging by the Facebook chatter that I've read).

This is probably not compelling enough for me to buy, so I'll continue waiting.
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