New Sony A7II and A9 with IBIS

rawr · 11-25-2014, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Sony A7 II's SteadyShot in action:

A decent range of movement. But it goes to show - you only need a few mm of movement to get the job done, even on full-frame.

Pentax should have no trouble at all implementing SR on full-frame ...

hinman · 11-25-2014, 11:45 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mistral75

Sony A7 II's SteadyShot in action:

A7 II SteadyShot in action - YouTube

I am a A7 owner and when I see the video, I notice the new sensor cover seems to have less reflective surface. Sensor reflection in A7 is a frequent problem for me for nighttime photos with strong light sources. It is too early to tell but it will be great if Sony addresses the annoying issue in mark II.

Thanks,
Hin

Christine Tham · 11-25-2014, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by rawr

A decent range of movement. But it goes to show - you only need a few mm of movement to get the job done, even on full-frame.

There's a concern that the movement may cause vignetting in the photo, because the e-mount diameter is so close to sensor size.

rawr · 11-25-2014, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

There's a concern that the movement may cause vignetting in the photo

I guess there may be other optical issues too. If a lens is sharpest in the centre but soft at the edges, particularly wide-open, vigorous SR may introduce image softness by dragging the sensor over into the optical 'soft zones' of a lens. Probably a marginal risk, but one to add to any worries about extra vignetting.

Christine Tham · 11-25-2014, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by rawr

I guess there may be other optical issues too. If a lens is sharpest in the centre but soft at the edges, particularly wide-open, vigorous SR may introduce image softness by dragging the sensor over into the optical 'soft zones' of a lens. Probably a marginal risk, but one to add to any worries about extra vignetting.

Potentially, although I would suspect (or at least hope) the sweet spot for a given lens should be larger in diameter than the range of movement.

As I've mentioned before, I am not a fan of IBIS, because of a range of potential issues. However, I will be the first to admit it seems to work well under normal circumstances. It's a certainly a nice feature to have for a mainstream camera, and will appeal to enthusiasts.

philbaum · 11-25-2014, 01:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by hinman

I am a A7 owner and when I see the video, I notice the new sensor cover seems to have less reflective surface. Sensor reflection in A7 is a frequent problem for me for nighttime photos with strong light sources. It is too early to tell but it will be great if Sony addresses the annoying issue in mark II.

Thanks,
Hin

Thats the biggest reason i didn't, and won't, buy the A7, seen too many photos illustrating the problem. Its nice to see Sony addressing these issues.

deadwolfbones · 11-26-2014, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

How so?

If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal.

Clavius · 11-26-2014, 08:21 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal.

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

Mistral75 · 11-26-2014, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal.

Alpha 7R is supposedly the best-selling camera among the A7/A7R/A7S series, i.e Sony sell more Alpha 7R (more expensive) than Alpha 7 (entry ticket to 24x36 mirrorless). Of course, Sony sell many more Alpha 3000 / 5100 than Alpha 7/7R/7S.

Christine Tham · 11-26-2014, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

I agree. It's kind of like when people were criticising Apple because the iPhone 5S was selling so much better than the 5C.

Apple was crying ... all the way to the bank.

Sony I think is currently the only major camera manufacturer to be reporting growth in sales and profit, in a declining market.

Yes, their volumes are down, but so are everyone elses.

As for "mass market appeal" - it's getting to the point where 1/4 to 1/3 of the "semi serious" cameras I see people using are Sony NEX cameras (or Olympus). I have noticed a dramatic decline in people carrying DSLRs in public. And usually the people that do carry a DSLR are carrying old entry level models. You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums.

jcdoss · 11-26-2014, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

As for "mass market appeal" - it's getting to the point where 1/4 to 1/3 of the "semi serious" cameras I see people using are Sony NEX cameras (or Olympus). I have noticed a dramatic decline in people carrying DSLRs in public. And usually the people that do carry a DSLR are carrying old entry level models. You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums.

That's certainly not true where I live, and in fact, I'm seeing more DSLRs running around in public that I've ever seen. I also think I'm seeing more cameras in general, even though everyone also has a cell phone. Most are Canons, and Nikons are in a fairly distant second, although I admit I haven't been keeping score. I'm definitely in the minority with my Sony NEX-6, and I don't think I've spotted an a7, or any of it's ilk in the wild yet.

Christine Tham · 11-26-2014, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by jcdoss

That's certainly not true where I live, and in fact, I'm seeing more DSLRs running around in public that I've ever seen. I also think I'm seeing more cameras in general, even though everyone also has a cell phone. Most are Canons, and Nikons are in a fairly distant second, although I admit I haven't been keeping score. I'm definitely in the minority with my Sony NEX-6, and I don't think I've spotted an a7, or any of it's ilk in the wild yet.

It definitely depends on where you live. The US is definitely lagging behind in the worldwide trend, Asia is probably leading.

Australia is probably ahead of Europe, behind Asia.

In Australia, DSLR camera sales have slowed down to a crawl. JB Hi Fi and Dick Smith are now almost permanently advertising 10-15% markdowns on DSLR bodies - no one is buying. I almost never see anyone carrying a recent DSLR model. On a recent photowalk, the only new DSLR model I saw was a D750 - which was a loaner from Nikon. Everyone else was carrying Sony, Olympus. Two A6000, my old NEX6, EM1 ...

Heck I have even seen more Leica Ms in the wild compared to a high end Canikon. A few weeks ago, a guy carrying a black Leica M was sitting next to us in a cafe. The other day I saw a guy carrying a gorgeous silver Leica M - he took a photo of me and showed it to me - I complimented him on his camera.

deadwolfbones · 11-26-2014, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Alpha 7R is supposedly the best-selling camera among the A7/A7R/A7S series, i.e Sony sell more Alpha 7R (more expensive) than Alpha 7 (entry ticket to 24x36 mirrorless). Of course, Sony sell many more Alpha 3000 / 5100 than Alpha 7/7R/7S.

Ah, that makes more sense.

**RobA_Oz** · 11-26-2014, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

It's not a bad thing if you're making a good profit from a niche product, and the A7 line is a niche product, because of its present appeal to a comparatively small group of enthusiasts. It is not such a good thing if you're pricing it to undercut your rival's products and gain market share, unless you've factored in realistic larger longer-term sales predictions. If you have a cash cow that can subsidise early losses (or even low profits) that's well and good, but I think the point was being made that Sony's cash cows are not obvious.

This, of course, is from the seller's viewpoint. Buyers might have a different perspective, but perhaps not for long if the product doesn't last in the marketplace.

Doundounba · 11-26-2014, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums.

And I always thought the fish were in the tanks, not behind them... (Sorry, couldn't resist.

)

11-25-2014, 11:45 AM - 2 Likes	#122
hinman Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fremont, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,473	Originally posted by Mistral75 Sony A7 II's SteadyShot in action: A7 II SteadyShot in action - YouTube I am a A7 owner and when I see the video, I notice the new sensor cover seems to have less reflective surface. Sensor reflection in A7 is a frequent problem for me for nighttime photos with strong light sources. It is too early to tell but it will be great if Sony addresses the annoying issue in mark II. Thanks, Hin Last edited by hinman; 11-25-2014 at 11:54 AM.

11-26-2014, 12:30 PM	#130
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Clavius I still don't see how this is a bad thing... I agree. It's kind of like when people were criticising Apple because the iPhone 5S was selling so much better than the 5C. Apple was crying ... all the way to the bank. Sony I think is currently the only major camera manufacturer to be reporting growth in sales and profit, in a declining market. Yes, their volumes are down, but so are everyone elses. As for "mass market appeal" - it's getting to the point where 1/4 to 1/3 of the "semi serious" cameras I see people using are Sony NEX cameras (or Olympus). I have noticed a dramatic decline in people carrying DSLRs in public. And usually the people that do carry a DSLR are carrying old entry level models. You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums. Last edited by Christine Tham; 11-26-2014 at 12:41 PM.

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11-25-2014, 11:23 AM	#121
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Mistral75 Sony A7 II's SteadyShot in action: A decent range of movement. But it goes to show - you only need a few mm of movement to get the job done, even on full-frame. Pentax should have no trouble at all implementing SR on full-frame ...

11-25-2014, 12:06 PM	#123
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by rawr A decent range of movement. But it goes to show - you only need a few mm of movement to get the job done, even on full-frame. There's a concern that the movement may cause vignetting in the photo, because the e-mount diameter is so close to sensor size.

11-25-2014, 12:28 PM	#124
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Christine Tham There's a concern that the movement may cause vignetting in the photo I guess there may be other optical issues too. If a lens is sharpest in the centre but soft at the edges, particularly wide-open, vigorous SR may introduce image softness by dragging the sensor over into the optical 'soft zones' of a lens. Probably a marginal risk, but one to add to any worries about extra vignetting.

11-25-2014, 12:47 PM	#125
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by rawr I guess there may be other optical issues too. If a lens is sharpest in the centre but soft at the edges, particularly wide-open, vigorous SR may introduce image softness by dragging the sensor over into the optical 'soft zones' of a lens. Probably a marginal risk, but one to add to any worries about extra vignetting. Potentially, although I would suspect (or at least hope) the sweet spot for a given lens should be larger in diameter than the range of movement. As I've mentioned before, I am not a fan of IBIS, because of a range of potential issues. However, I will be the first to admit it seems to work well under normal circumstances. It's a certainly a nice feature to have for a mainstream camera, and will appeal to enthusiasts.

11-25-2014, 01:23 PM - 1 Like	#126
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by hinman I am a A7 owner and when I see the video, I notice the new sensor cover seems to have less reflective surface. Sensor reflection in A7 is a frequent problem for me for nighttime photos with strong light sources. It is too early to tell but it will be great if Sony addresses the annoying issue in mark II. Thanks, Hin Thats the biggest reason i didn't, and won't, buy the A7, seen too many photos illustrating the problem. Its nice to see Sony addressing these issues.

11-26-2014, 08:07 AM	#127
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 7,451	Originally posted by Mistral75 How so? If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal.

11-26-2014, 08:21 AM - 1 Like	#128
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150 Original Poster	Originally posted by deadwolfbones If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal. I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

11-26-2014, 09:15 AM	#129
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by deadwolfbones If your best-selling camera is a $2000+ full-frame mirrorless, it doesn't say much for your mass-market appeal. Alpha 7R is supposedly the best-selling camera among the A7/A7R/A7S series, i.e Sony sell more Alpha 7R (more expensive) than Alpha 7 (entry ticket to 24x36 mirrorless). Of course, Sony sell many more Alpha 3000 / 5100 than Alpha 7/7R/7S.

11-26-2014, 01:49 PM	#131
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,801	Originally posted by Christine Tham As for "mass market appeal" - it's getting to the point where 1/4 to 1/3 of the "semi serious" cameras I see people using are Sony NEX cameras (or Olympus). I have noticed a dramatic decline in people carrying DSLRs in public. And usually the people that do carry a DSLR are carrying old entry level models. You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums. That's certainly not true where I live, and in fact, I'm seeing more DSLRs running around in public that I've ever seen. I also think I'm seeing more cameras in general, even though everyone also has a cell phone. Most are Canons, and Nikons are in a fairly distant second, although I admit I haven't been keeping score. I'm definitely in the minority with my Sony NEX-6, and I don't think I've spotted an a7, or any of it's ilk in the wild yet.

11-26-2014, 03:20 PM	#132
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by jcdoss That's certainly not true where I live, and in fact, I'm seeing more DSLRs running around in public that I've ever seen. I also think I'm seeing more cameras in general, even though everyone also has a cell phone. Most are Canons, and Nikons are in a fairly distant second, although I admit I haven't been keeping score. I'm definitely in the minority with my Sony NEX-6, and I don't think I've spotted an a7, or any of it's ilk in the wild yet. It definitely depends on where you live. The US is definitely lagging behind in the worldwide trend, Asia is probably leading. Australia is probably ahead of Europe, behind Asia. In Australia, DSLR camera sales have slowed down to a crawl. JB Hi Fi and Dick Smith are now almost permanently advertising 10-15% markdowns on DSLR bodies - no one is buying. I almost never see anyone carrying a recent DSLR model. On a recent photowalk, the only new DSLR model I saw was a D750 - which was a loaner from Nikon. Everyone else was carrying Sony, Olympus. Two A6000, my old NEX6, EM1 ... Heck I have even seen more Leica Ms in the wild compared to a high end Canikon. A few weeks ago, a guy carrying a black Leica M was sitting next to us in a cafe. The other day I saw a guy carrying a gorgeous silver Leica M - he took a photo of me and showed it to me - I complimented him on his camera.

11-26-2014, 06:48 PM	#133
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 7,451	Originally posted by Mistral75 Alpha 7R is supposedly the best-selling camera among the A7/A7R/A7S series, i.e Sony sell more Alpha 7R (more expensive) than Alpha 7 (entry ticket to 24x36 mirrorless). Of course, Sony sell many more Alpha 3000 / 5100 than Alpha 7/7R/7S. Ah, that makes more sense.

11-26-2014, 07:04 PM	#134
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by Clavius I still don't see how this is a bad thing... It's not a bad thing if you're making a good profit from a niche product, and the A7 line is a niche product, because of its present appeal to a comparatively small group of enthusiasts. It is not such a good thing if you're pricing it to undercut your rival's products and gain market share, unless you've factored in realistic larger longer-term sales predictions. If you have a cash cow that can subsidise early losses (or even low profits) that's well and good, but I think the point was being made that Sony's cash cows are not obvious. This, of course, is from the seller's viewpoint. Buyers might have a different perspective, but perhaps not for long if the product doesn't last in the marketplace.

11-26-2014, 08:00 PM	#135
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by Christine Tham You know ... the sort of people who use flash trying to capture fish behind tanks in aquariums. And I always thought the fish were in the tanks, not behind them... (Sorry, couldn't resist. )