New Sony A7II and A9 with IBIS

**Rondec** · 11-19-2014, 12:22 PM

The big thing to me is that it is another affirmation that IBIS is more than possible with full frame sensor. Hopefully Pentax can work out the kinks. As it is, the big lack in the FE mount is with lenses. Sure, you can mount alpha mount lenses on with a big adapter, but there isn't much that natively mounts and works with auto focus.

Maybe Pentax could go full frame with K-02.

6BQ5 · 11-19-2014, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

The big thing to me is that it is another affirmation that IBIS is more than possible with full frame sensor. Hopefully Pentax can work out the kinks. As it is, the big lack in the FE mount is with lenses. Sure, you can mount alpha mount lenses on with a big adapter, but there isn't much that natively mounts and works with auto focus.

Maybe Pentax could go full frame with K-02.

IBIS with FF is very doable, I'm sure. IBIS with FF and a mirror box ... now that may take some engineering and space!

Na Horuk · 11-19-2014, 02:07 PM - **4 Likes**

This is basically what Pentax should have made, years ago. But with K-mount, Pentax ergonomics and Menu system.

Raffwal · 11-19-2014, 02:15 PM

Applause for Sony for one bold move after another! Brilliant sensors, compact FF cameras, now even IBIS!

How I wish Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh would be every now and then leading the way like this and not just following later. Just think what Sony has brought during the period Pentax has got some evolutionary upgrades to their APS-C cameras. Admittedly Sony has a track record of abandoning their tech and customers as well.

Na Horuk · 11-19-2014, 02:19 PM - **1 Like**

I really don't get all the complaints about FF, K-mount and IBIS, though. Firstly, K-mount is a full frame mount, it worked for film just great. And even much smaller mounts worked for FF, like m42, m39, m37 (and they had the same image circle, same register distance).. Sure, this will affect the lens design, but still. It has its good parts, too, as it allows compact designs like the pancake lenses, which are not possible on small register distances. (not to mention mirrorless and XS lenses that go into the body)
Then people complain the K-mount register distance is too big, too much empty space which bloats the camera, not enough adaptability options. At the same time they complain that it is too small for a full frame mirror to fit! So which is it? How come the other brands can fit a mirror into mounts with similar and shorter register distances? And mirrors used to fit just fine for the many, many Pentax SLRs, which had the same register distance and were FF. Asahi Pentax practically invented SLRs, remember?
Next is IBIS. I have read such wild differences about the requirements for extra image circle diameter. Some say the image circle has to be only two mm wider, others say it has to be significantly bigger. So I dismiss this complaint - seems nobody knows for sure, how big the image circle has to be, how much space the SR system needs in the body, etc. Ultimately, Pentax could make a hybrid system, which would mean IBIS for old lenses and lenses with big enough image circle, and in-lens SR for the ones where image circle is too small (and tele and macro lenses, where in-lens stabilization might have an edge)

elpolodiablo · 11-19-2014, 04:39 PM

Good news! Can't wait for this to come to the market so I can get a substantially discounted A7s lol

Christine Tham · 11-19-2014, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by elpolodiablo

Good news! Can't wait for this to come to the market so I can get a substantially discounted A7s lol

You should have told me you wanted one. Sony offered one to me for a great price (I am not allowed to reveal it but let's say it's a very substantial discount) but I declined because I am waiting for the A9. Unfortunately that offer is no longer available.

**luftfluss** · 11-19-2014, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

I don't need it.

It adds weight and size.

Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod.

There are many features in Pentax (and all) cameras I don't need, but I am not anti-xxxxxx because those features help sell Pentax cameras, and Pentax selling cameras is in my best interest.

IBIS adds very little in terms of size & weight. If you don't like IBIS, simply turn it off.

Christine Tham · 11-19-2014, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

IBIS adds very little in terms of size & weight. If you don't like IBIS, simply turn it off.

Disagree. According to the rumours, the A7II is 100g heavier and thicker. And the battery life is shorter (I think). Of course, we need the actual camera to be announced before we understand the impact, so it's pointless arguing now.

What is "very little" for you may be very significant for me. Don't assume you understand my needs and priorities.

I would pay a premium for Sony to remove features I don't want (like IBIS) in order the save weight and size. For example, if Sony released a full frame camera same size and weight as the NEX6/A6000, I would gladly pay double the current price of the A7 for it.

**clackers** · 11-19-2014, 05:07 PM

The A99 is FF and has IBIS already ... but it's an SLT camera.

VisualDarkness · 11-19-2014, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

I don't need it.

It adds weight and size.

Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod.

When handholding a camera without image stabilization at slower shutter speeds I never get as sharp image as with my cameras with it, it really does help for sure. That is extremely apparent when I shoot film and get over-optimistic with shutter speeds after all my time with SR.

It doesn't add that much weight at all, the Q is very light and some of the Pentax DSLRs with SR are light compared to most. It mostly adds a tad size to house the mechanism.

When on tripod I usually use a remote and/or self-timer/MLU so it gets shut off automatically since it's not needed anyway. When handholding I never ever see negative effects except for panning, where it counters my (wanted) movement quite well. It seems to be more of an urban myth than anything.

Winder · 11-19-2014, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Interesting that it took Sony so long to implement IBIS. The NEX series never had it.

Its part of the Olympus deal. Its the Olympus 5 axis IBIS scaled up to a larger sensor. Best IBIS made. Olympus is also working on glass for the FE mount, but Sony recently denied it.

Originally posted by Christine Tham

It adds weight and size.

Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod.

It really weighs very little and there are millions of cameras that have IBIS (Olympus, Pentax, Sony) that don't have a problem with blur. You are much more likely to have blur from the shutter movement.

**luftfluss** · 11-19-2014, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Disagree. According to the rumours, the A7II is 100g heavier and thicker. And the battery life is shorter (I think). Of course, we need the actual camera to be announced before we understand the impact, so it's pointless arguing now.

According to the link in the OP, the increase in weight is due - at least in part - to the redesigned grip.

Quote:

What is "very little" for you may be very significant for me. Don't assume you understand my needs and priorities.

I made no mention of your "needs and priorities" so I don't know why you would even make that statement.

Christine Tham · 11-19-2014, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Winder

It really weighs very little and there are millions of cameras that have IBIS (Olympus, Pentax, Sony) that don't have a problem with blur. You are much more likely to have blur from the shutter movement.

Again disagree. "very little" is your personal opinion based on your perceived priorities and needs. Don't assume what my priorities are.

As for problems with blur, I seem to recall there was a long discussion (with empirical examples) of issues with the K5 (and other Pentax cameras) suffering from blur due to shake reduction. Again, not interested in your personal opinion on whether there is a problem or not. Pentax issues a warning to turn off shake reduction when camera is mounted on tripod - that indicates that there may be a potential issue.

I don't want it or need it, and it's a feature that adds size and weight. Don't care about whether it can be turned off or not, that is not the issue. Also don't care whether you (or anyone else) thinks the difference is significant or not - I am saying it's significant for me.

VisualDarkness · 11-19-2014, 05:46 PM

So you never shoot handheld at speeds roughly 1/1.5xFL? I can see that you shoot with a K-01, so you just keep it shut off?
Also I can't see why people would choose Pentax if size is of the highest priority. Makers like Samsung got great small primes on much smaller bodies. To each his own though.

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11-19-2014, 12:22 PM	#16
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	The big thing to me is that it is another affirmation that IBIS is more than possible with full frame sensor. Hopefully Pentax can work out the kinks. As it is, the big lack in the FE mount is with lenses. Sure, you can mount alpha mount lenses on with a big adapter, but there isn't much that natively mounts and works with auto focus. Maybe Pentax could go full frame with K-02.

11-19-2014, 01:30 PM	#17
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Originally posted by Rondec The big thing to me is that it is another affirmation that IBIS is more than possible with full frame sensor. Hopefully Pentax can work out the kinks. As it is, the big lack in the FE mount is with lenses. Sure, you can mount alpha mount lenses on with a big adapter, but there isn't much that natively mounts and works with auto focus. Maybe Pentax could go full frame with K-02. IBIS with FF is very doable, I'm sure. IBIS with FF and a mirror box ... now that may take some engineering and space!

11-19-2014, 02:07 PM - 4 Likes	#18
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	This is basically what Pentax should have made, years ago. But with K-mount, Pentax ergonomics and Menu system.

11-19-2014, 02:15 PM	#19
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Applause for Sony for one bold move after another! Brilliant sensors, compact FF cameras, now even IBIS! How I wish Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh would be every now and then leading the way like this and not just following later. Just think what Sony has brought during the period Pentax has got some evolutionary upgrades to their APS-C cameras. Admittedly Sony has a track record of abandoning their tech and customers as well.

11-19-2014, 02:19 PM - 1 Like	#20
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	I really don't get all the complaints about FF, K-mount and IBIS, though. Firstly, K-mount is a full frame mount, it worked for film just great. And even much smaller mounts worked for FF, like m42, m39, m37 (and they had the same image circle, same register distance).. Sure, this will affect the lens design, but still. It has its good parts, too, as it allows compact designs like the pancake lenses, which are not possible on small register distances. (not to mention mirrorless and XS lenses that go into the body) Then people complain the K-mount register distance is too big, too much empty space which bloats the camera, not enough adaptability options. At the same time they complain that it is too small for a full frame mirror to fit! So which is it? How come the other brands can fit a mirror into mounts with similar and shorter register distances? And mirrors used to fit just fine for the many, many Pentax SLRs, which had the same register distance and were FF. Asahi Pentax practically invented SLRs, remember? Next is IBIS. I have read such wild differences about the requirements for extra image circle diameter. Some say the image circle has to be only two mm wider, others say it has to be significantly bigger. So I dismiss this complaint - seems nobody knows for sure, how big the image circle has to be, how much space the SR system needs in the body, etc. Ultimately, Pentax could make a hybrid system, which would mean IBIS for old lenses and lenses with big enough image circle, and in-lens SR for the ones where image circle is too small (and tele and macro lenses, where in-lens stabilization might have an edge)

11-19-2014, 04:39 PM	#21
elpolodiablo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,637	Good news! Can't wait for this to come to the market so I can get a substantially discounted A7s lol

11-19-2014, 04:51 PM	#22
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by elpolodiablo Good news! Can't wait for this to come to the market so I can get a substantially discounted A7s lol You should have told me you wanted one. Sony offered one to me for a great price (I am not allowed to reveal it but let's say it's a very substantial discount) but I declined because I am waiting for the A9. Unfortunately that offer is no longer available.

11-19-2014, 04:52 PM	#23
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Originally posted by Christine Tham I don't need it. It adds weight and size. Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod. There are many features in Pentax (and all) cameras I don't need, but I am not anti-xxxxxx because those features help sell Pentax cameras, and Pentax selling cameras is in my best interest. IBIS adds very little in terms of size & weight. If you don't like IBIS, simply turn it off.

11-19-2014, 05:03 PM	#24
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by luftfluss IBIS adds very little in terms of size & weight. If you don't like IBIS, simply turn it off. Disagree. According to the rumours, the A7II is 100g heavier and thicker. And the battery life is shorter (I think). Of course, we need the actual camera to be announced before we understand the impact, so it's pointless arguing now. What is "very little" for you may be very significant for me. Don't assume you understand my needs and priorities. I would pay a premium for Sony to remove features I don't want (like IBIS) in order the save weight and size. For example, if Sony released a full frame camera same size and weight as the NEX6/A6000, I would gladly pay double the current price of the A7 for it.

11-19-2014, 05:07 PM	#25
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	The A99 is FF and has IBIS already ... but it's an SLT camera.

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11-19-2014, 05:13 PM	#26
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by Christine Tham I don't need it. It adds weight and size. Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod. When handholding a camera without image stabilization at slower shutter speeds I never get as sharp image as with my cameras with it, it really does help for sure. That is extremely apparent when I shoot film and get over-optimistic with shutter speeds after all my time with SR. It doesn't add that much weight at all, the Q is very light and some of the Pentax DSLRs with SR are light compared to most. It mostly adds a tad size to house the mechanism. When on tripod I usually use a remote and/or self-timer/MLU so it gets shut off automatically since it's not needed anyway. When handholding I never ever see negative effects except for panning, where it counters my (wanted) movement quite well. It seems to be more of an urban myth than anything.

11-19-2014, 05:15 PM	#27
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by rawr Interesting that it took Sony so long to implement IBIS. The NEX series never had it. Its part of the Olympus deal. Its the Olympus 5 axis IBIS scaled up to a larger sensor. Best IBIS made. Olympus is also working on glass for the FE mount, but Sony recently denied it. Originally posted by Christine Tham It adds weight and size. Plus there is the possibility of blurring due to over-corrective action. Pentax recommends turning off IBIS when camera mounted on tripod. It really weighs very little and there are millions of cameras that have IBIS (Olympus, Pentax, Sony) that don't have a problem with blur. You are much more likely to have blur from the shutter movement.

11-19-2014, 05:25 PM	#28
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618	Originally posted by Christine Tham Disagree. According to the rumours, the A7II is 100g heavier and thicker. And the battery life is shorter (I think). Of course, we need the actual camera to be announced before we understand the impact, so it's pointless arguing now. According to the link in the OP, the increase in weight is due - at least in part - to the redesigned grip. Quote: What is "very little" for you may be very significant for me. Don't assume you understand my needs and priorities. I made no mention of your "needs and priorities" so I don't know why you would even make that statement.

11-19-2014, 05:28 PM	#29
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Winder It really weighs very little and there are millions of cameras that have IBIS (Olympus, Pentax, Sony) that don't have a problem with blur. You are much more likely to have blur from the shutter movement. Again disagree. "very little" is your personal opinion based on your perceived priorities and needs. Don't assume what my priorities are. As for problems with blur, I seem to recall there was a long discussion (with empirical examples) of issues with the K5 (and other Pentax cameras) suffering from blur due to shake reduction. Again, not interested in your personal opinion on whether there is a problem or not. Pentax issues a warning to turn off shake reduction when camera is mounted on tripod - that indicates that there may be a potential issue. I don't want it or need it, and it's a feature that adds size and weight. Don't care about whether it can be turned off or not, that is not the issue. Also don't care whether you (or anyone else) thinks the difference is significant or not - I am saying it's significant for me.

11-19-2014, 05:46 PM	#30
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	So you never shoot handheld at speeds roughly 1/1.5xFL? I can see that you shoot with a K-01, so you just keep it shut off? Also I can't see why people would choose Pentax if size is of the highest priority. Makers like Samsung got great small primes on much smaller bodies. To each his own though.