[philbaum]

But most companies automatically turn IBIS off when you set the camera to timer or are using a remote. The risk is extremely low. The reason image stabilization is used at all is that the IQ advantages great exceed the risk.

What's cool about this image stabilization, is that i think it applies even to those using manual lenses with Sony. This wasn't true in the past - one had to have the lens stabil. Now there is even more incentive to use manual lenses.

In looking at the available lens list, the FE zooms i would be interested in, the 24-70, 28-135, 28-70 and 70-200 are all F4. IIRC, that negates the slightly more than 1 stop exposure advantage of a FF over APS. I have f2.8 zooms for my K3 now. They do have 3 native prime lenses for FE with faster apertures. I hope they have plans to get some native F2.8 zooms out eventually.

Sony Global - Digital Imaging ? ILCE-QX1

Other disadvantages of A7 II. AF low-light limit is -1ev, which is not up to the -3ev of K3. Did folks note that one of the advertised features was an "enhanced Mount". There were reports that some Nex and FF owners had reported some loosening of the Sony mount after use. Fotodiox actually sold a metal ring that could be installed in place of the mount ring on Nex and Sony FF cameras - required 3 small screws to be removed and reinstalled. Glad that Sony fixed the problem.

Also don't see anything about water resistance on the A7II - did i miss that??? Wouldn't want to pay this much for a FF camera without that.

Its a good healthy upgrade for Sony's A7 line - kudos to Sony.

PS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/just-announced-sony-a7-...I-ReadMoreText

The above BH notice says that it does have enhanced weather sealing.

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Last edited by philbaum; 11-20-2014 at 01:50 PM.

[Christine Tham]

In looking at the available lens list, the FE zooms i would be interested in, the 24-70, 28-135, 28-70 and 70-200 are all F4. IIRC, that negates the slightly more than 1 stop exposure advantage of a FF over APS. I have f2.8 zooms for my K3 now. They do have 3 native prime lenses for FE with faster apertures. I hope they have plans to get some native F2.8 zooms out eventually.

The issue is - f2.8 zooms are big and heavy, and defeat the purpose of a small compact mirrorless body.

The A7 line is most attractive as a rangefinder replacement with small fast primes.

If I am the sort of photographer who shoots f2.8 zooms, I would not buy Sony - I'll probably buy Nikon. If the lenses are going to be big and heavy, might as well get a a big and heavy body with it to balance it out.

[stevebrot]

IBIS... now it has piqued my interest... I guess Pentax will be late to the party as usual.

Pentax has had IBIS since 2006.

Interesting that it took Sony so long to implement IBIS. The NEX series never had it.

Sony has also had IBIS since at least 2006, though not in NEX or the other mirrorless cameras.


Steve

---------- Post added 11-20-14 at 05:20 PM ----------

Now we understand each other, peace in Pentaxland!

This is not Pentaxland...this section of the site is "beyond the pale" and the conventional does not hold here


Steve

[rawr]

The issue is - f2.8 zooms are big and heavy, and defeat the purpose of a small compact mirrorless body.
The A7 line is most attractive as a rangefinder replacement with small fast primes.

That's probably why Sony are also maintaining the Alpha DSLR/SLT line. They provide a more natural home for big, traditional f2.8 zooms.

[philbaum]

The issue is - f2.8 zooms are big and heavy, and defeat the purpose of a small compact mirrorless body.

The A7 line is most attractive as a rangefinder replacement with small fast primes.

If I am the sort of photographer who shoots f2.8 zooms, I would not buy Sony - I'll probably buy Nikon. If the lenses are going to be big and heavy, might as well get a a big and heavy body with it to balance it out.

I understand the issue, but i politely disagree. If i were a professional studio shooter, than i would agree with you. But i'm not. I shoot in a variety of circumstances, i.e. for theater rehearsals in low light conditions when f2.8 is often not sufficient, but an f4 is certainly lacking, for landscapes during snowshoe hikes or hikes to the ocean beaches when light weight is more important than aperture, etc. Limiting the lenses in an INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERA defeats the whole purpose of the concept. For short periods of time - I DON'T CARE that the camera is unbalanced - after all i have 2 hands.

Sony is just using linear thinking. For an analogy, Swiss army knives can do a variety of things, but master of none. Thats what i want in a camera - one that is not artificially limited by narrow manufacturing concepts. If i went along with Sony's thinking, i would need one Sony FE for F4 zooms and then a second Sony A-mount for my theater shooting - not to mention extra lenses for both types. Thats absurd.

Sure with a Sony, i can buy a adapter to use the A-mount lenses - but i understand that when one does that, the AF performance degrades quite a lot. At the very least, can't they make a normal tele with F2.8.

[Christine Tham]

I understand the issue, but i politely disagree. If i were a professional studio shooter, than i would agree with you. But i'm not. I shoot in a variety of circumstances, i.e. for theater rehearsals in low light conditions when f2.8 is often not sufficient, but an f4 is certainly lacking, for landscapes during snowshoe hikes or hikes to the ocean beaches when light weight is more important than aperture, etc. Limiting the lenses in an INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERA defeats the whole purpose of the concept. For short periods of time - I DON'T CARE that the camera is unbalanced - after all i have 2 hands.

As a consumer you certainly have a right to choose whatever you want and make your requirements clear.

But Sony is under no obligation to meet them, because you may or may not be their target customer.

At the end of the day, Sony is trying to build products for their target market. They have said several times (in interviews etc.) that their market research shows potential customers are concerned about size and weight of lenses, so I imagine they are targeting their products to meet that outcome.

Will they ever release 2.8 zooms? They might.

One thing that could change their product strategy is if you contact them and provide direct feedback on your specific requirements. I have done that several times, and have been very pleased to see that my input and feedback appears to be reflected in new products.

For example, about a year prior to the A7, I remember having a conversation with Sony about the NEX series and I pretty much gave them a list of what I would like to see in a full frame mirrorless. I don't know if they actually paid any attention to that list or not, and I am not claiming that my list made a difference, but I was very pleasantly surprised when the A7 was announced that almost every item I mentioned had been incorporated in the camera.

Similarly with the Action Cam - the current generation Action Cam incorporates almost every feedback I sent Sony when the original Action Cam was released. I gathered feedback via a public forum of all the issues with the Action Cam, then I emailed the Sony product manager and said "this is what's wrong with the Action Cam and this is what we as users really really want." They incorporated nearly everything, even the ability to flip the video (which only one person had mentioned and I didn't think would be a high priority feature).

If you have met anyone from Sony's product design teams, and I have met several (Sony flies them out to meet key customers when a new product is released), these guys are very willing to listen to real customers. They also seem genuinely interested about their products - the camera designers are all photographers, the Walkman designers are all audio enthusiasts etc. And they also seem fairly young and not afraid to try new things - probably explains why Sony has been so innovative lately.

[philbaum]

As a consumer you certainly have a right to choose whatever you want and make your requirements clear.
.

I have way to much involvement in photography right now (i'm president of a club, active shooter at a playhouse, gallery member, etc, to spare time to lobby with Sony. The easiest and most efficient thing i can do is to vote with my feet and money to buy the camera that comes closest to my ideal.

A. With Pentax, i can choose F4 to F2.8 zooms from the largest to the smallest size K-mount cameras they have. Not mirrorless of course.

B. With Fuji, I can choose zooms such as the XF f2.8 50-140mm lens and it will fit any of the Xf mirrorless models from large to small. A friend has a Fuji XA1, i think, and its shutter is way quieter than my Nex cameras.

I want camera systems that give me options, in this case ability to buy a native F2.8 normal zoom at least. The A-mount alternative just seems like a poor workaround, unless i had Amount lenses to begin with. In these two ways (F2.8 zooms and quiet shutters), Sony doesn't measure up to Fuji, at least so far. Sure one could buy the A7s, but thats a lot of money to spend for an electronic shutter that comes standard with most Fujis as far as i know.

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Last edited by philbaum; 11-21-2014 at 12:35 AM.

[Clavius]

As a consumer you certainly have a right to choose whatever you want and make your requirements clear.

But Sony is under no obligation to meet them, because you may or may not be their target customer.

At the end of the day, Sony is trying to build products for their target market. They have said several times (in interviews etc.) that their market research shows potential customers are concerned about size and weight of lenses, so I imagine they are targeting their products to meet that outcome.

Will they ever release 2.8 zooms? They might.

One thing that could change their product strategy is if you contact them and provide direct feedback on your specific requirements. I have done that several times, and have been very pleased to see that my input and feedback appears to be reflected in new products.

For example, about a year prior to the A7, I remember having a conversation with Sony about the NEX series and I pretty much gave them a list of what I would like to see in a full frame mirrorless. I don't know if they actually paid any attention to that list or not, and I am not claiming that my list made a difference, but I was very pleasantly surprised when the A7 was announced that almost every item I mentioned had been incorporated in the camera.

Similarly with the Action Cam - the current generation Action Cam incorporates almost every feedback I sent Sony when the original Action Cam was released. I gathered feedback via a public forum of all the issues with the Action Cam, then I emailed the Sony product manager and said "this is what's wrong with the Action Cam and this is what we as users really really want." They incorporated nearly everything, even the ability to flip the video (which only one person had mentioned and I didn't think would be a high priority feature).

If you have met anyone from Sony's product design teams, and I have met several (Sony flies them out to meet key customers when a new product is released), these guys are very willing to listen to real customers. They also seem genuinely interested about their products - the camera designers are all photographers, the Walkman designers are all audio enthusiasts etc. And they also seem fairly young and not afraid to try new things - probably explains why Sony has been so innovative lately.

How true! I often get the feeling Sony researches on internet fora, including this one.

---------- Post added 21-11-14 at 09:30 ----------

I just realised, what if there's going to be a A7sII too? Imagine that sensitive sensor with the new 5 axis stabilisation? Combined with a fast-ish lens that means handheld shooting soon will become possible in very low light.

[Christine Tham]

I have way to much involvement in photography right now (i'm president of a club, active shooter at a playhouse, gallery member, etc, to spare time to lobby with Sony. The easiest and most efficient thing i can do is to vote with my feet and money to buy the camera that comes closest to my ideal.

If you recall, the gist of my original post was - if you want 2.8 zooms, buy something other than Sony.

But that's when you started your "politely disagree" post.

So does that mean you were politely agreeing all along? :-)

[Mistral75]

(...)

Also don't see anything about water resistance on the A7II - did i miss that??? Wouldn't want to pay this much for a FF camera without that.

(...)

PS: Sony Japan Unveils the a7II Mirrorless Camera, 70-300mm G SSM II A-Mount Lens | explora

The above BH notice says that it does have enhanced weather sealing.

Alpha 7 II is indeed weather sealed, see the top right picture on the slide below, which was shown yesterday during Alpha 7 II's official presentation in Tokyo.

The title of the slide means "Other areas of improvement".

[VoiceOfReason]

I have all the f/2.8 zooms I need for now.

[osv]

I want camera systems that give me options, in this case ability to buy a native F2.8 normal zoom at least.

with sony you can mount f/2.8 lenses from a bunch of manufacturers, and use 'em in manual mode.

so the f/2.8 glass choices are far better than anything that you'll ever get with pentax; you can pick and choose from the best on the market.

the problem here is that you insist on only shooting in spray 'n pray mode, which is rigid inflexible thinking.

if you refuse to use manual focus, why is it the fault of sony? it's your personal hangup, not something that sony did.

[ruggiex]

Pentax has had IBIS since 2006.

In my mind, I was really referring to Pentax FF MILC with IBIS that's LTTP. Also, it would be nice for Pentax to update their SR to handle pitch/yaw as well simlar to Oly/Sony's.

[Winder]

I want camera systems that give me options, in this case ability to buy a native F2.8 normal zoom at least. The A-mount alternative just seems like a poor workaround, unless i had Amount lenses to begin with. In these two ways (F2.8 zooms and quiet shutters), Sony doesn't measure up to Fuji, at least so far. Sure one could buy the A7s, but thats a lot of money to spend for an electronic shutter that comes standard with most Fujis as far as i know.

The X-mount and FE mount are both brand new systems. Today they don't have those options. Fuji will have the fast zooms by the end of 2015. Actually in 2015 Fuji will pass Pentax in its fast zoom offering with the 150-400mm. Fuji will have the 10-24mm, 16-50mm F/2.8, 50-140mm F/2.8 and the 150-400mm. Sony is probably 2-3 years away from filling out the line.

I expect Sony and Fuji to both release larger "pro" bodies in 2015. The X-T1 is just too small for the big zooms on the road map.

[stevebrot]

In my mind, I was really referring to Pentax FF MILC with IBIS that's LTTP. Also, it would be nice for Pentax to update their SR to handle pitch/yaw as well simlar to Oly/Sony's.

Thanks for the clarification. Lack of a feature on a non-existent camera is definitely late to market. It would be late market even without IBIS.


Steve