Sony 'gets' it right (rage Pentax, rage!)

mamethot · 11-20-2014, 08:25 AM

I too think it's something else.

normhead · 11-20-2014, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

For everyone who hates the 'electronic' SR and wants the Sensor Shift technology re-enabled!

Î±7 â…¡ 5-axis SteadyShot INSIDE from Sony: Official Video Release - YouTube

Fills me with ARRRRGH!! to know Pentax had this for video, and have disabled it!

You should have used the "For everyone who hates the 'electronic' SR and wants the Sensor Shift technology re-enabled!" as the title, then folks like me would have ignored it. Your idea of "getting ti right" and my idea of "getting it right " are miles apart. My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video. But, you must have wanted my input, or you would have selected a more definitive title for your thread.

vonBaloney · 11-20-2014, 09:08 AM

If you want to hear the SR make noise, just use a manual lens and dial-in a high focal length, like 500. Shakes like crazy...

kadajawi · 11-20-2014, 09:26 AM

@norm: This is the video segment.

Originally posted by vonBaloney

If you want to hear the SR make noise, just use a manual lens and dial-in a high focal length, like 500. Shakes like crazy...

Yes, it does. Still can't hear a thing though in most of my videos, if not all. It's a tiny tiny issue.

Sony A7II gets in-body 5 axis stabilisation and S-LOG 2 - EOSHD
A bit more info on the camera, plus comments from a filmmaker.

Quote:

The Sony A7 II gets some really useful additions for video as well as the amazing stabilisation system which I loved so much on the OM-D E-M1. There’s no real reason to have an E-M1 now this is out. It says a lot about how useful 5 axis stabilisation was with all my lenses that I kept it this long.

Keep in mind that the E-M1 lacked frame rates above or below 30 fps... meaning it can result in flickering video in Europe. Besides not being in a useful frame rate to begin with. Still the stabilization was enough for him to use it, because it is that useful.

richandfleur · 11-20-2014, 02:45 PM

Over.Pentax.Waited.Long.Enough.You.Had.It.Working.Already.?.!.See.You.Later.

Na Horuk · 11-20-2014, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by normhead

My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video. But, you must have wanted my input, or you would have selected a more definitive title for your thread.

Sure, maybe you don't use video, but with just a few little (nearly inexpensive tweaks), Pentax could sell units to a much wider market, without hurting the capabilities of the still photos. Its just that Pentax keeps making odd mistakes when it comes to video, from codecs, mic jack, AF, peaking, connectivity,.. and who knows, if you have a video option, maybe you will take a video some day. Adding some video to a blog, a youtube channel, a portfolio..
Though, I almost never use video myself and don't "care" about it in the direct sense. I would love a "barebones" camera, all about the sensor and photo modes in a small, well-built package.

grispie · 11-21-2014, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Over.Pentax.Waited.Long.Enough.You.Had.It.Working.Already.?.!.See.You.Later.

I'm not sure how much greener the grass on the other side really is though..
Pentax Ricoh K-3 DSLR Review | Videomaker.com

richandfleur · 11-21-2014, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by grispie

I'm not sure how much greener the grass on the other side really is though..
Pentax Ricoh K-3 DSLR Review | Videomaker.com

I'm not reading anything here is that says they are doing video right? Yes it's a solid weather sealed stills camera.

grispie · 11-21-2014, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by richandfleur

Yes it's a solid weather sealed stills camera.

we must have read a different review. I didn't read anything about stills.
But my point is: how much greener is the other side really and at what cost?

kadajawi · 11-21-2014, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by grispie

we must have read a different review. I didn't read anything about stills.
But my point is: how much greener is the other side really and at what cost?

While the video only talks about video, there is not a single comment on the bitrate. On how good the codec is. Moire? Aliasing? The crop (good luck shooting really wide angle...). Have they even held a K-3 or is it a spec sheet based review that pretends to be a real one? The comments about wind noise can be made about every camera.

grispie · 11-21-2014, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Have they even held a K-3 or is it a spec sheet based review that pretends to be a real one?

Valid point
that I questioned myself as well. I have the feeling they went somewhere in between & looked at it from a "budget" POV.
Actually, I'll register & ask the question about their thoughts on the codec, moire and so.
The last review i remember from cinema5d didn't really do it much good, but there i had the opposite feeling it was tested with a lot of bias.

This said,the review made me wonder about a possible future A7s with 5 axis SS. I mean, yes, that would be top notch, but so will the price be.
I read somewhere the A7 II would be 1800euro at entry.

For the price I paid, I am still happy with the K3 video performance and regarding SR, I am more & more getting the handle of how to deal with it. (this said, I do agree with everyone that says it should have remained mechanical and there is really no good reason they changed it...)
I'm just throwing my thoughts out there..

kadajawi · 11-21-2014, 05:12 AM

I thought the a7 II would cost about as much as the predecessor.

The Sony's aren't cheap, but so is the K-3. Just with the price cuts (low demand?) did it get affordable. And you are getting a ton of camera with the a7S II (I have no doubt that that will come. It makes no sense for them not to do so).

Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere.

PiDicus Rex · 11-21-2014, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by normhead

My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video.

Then why are you reading the Video posts?

Originally posted by kadajawi

Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere.

I was planning on getting a K3, but as the K5II keeps getting more and more affordable, and as I really only need the on-camera audio for syncing...
How do you lock down the exposure again?

grispie · 11-21-2014, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

I thought the a7 II would cost about as much as the predecessor.

The Sony's aren't cheap, but so is the K-3. Just with the price cuts (low demand?) did it get affordable. And you are getting a ton of camera with the a7S II (I have no doubt that that will come. It makes no sense for them not to do so).

Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere.

Prices always come down after a couple of months, correct. Still, the A7s II will be a chunk if i'd want it. And probably I will :-)
But then again, i'd don't need a FF and you're still paying for that as well. I'd be happy with sthing like the A6000 with 5 axis and audioinput possibility through my Azden. Maybe it will come as well.

K5? if i cross a good cheap one... just to give it a try. want manual control. Guess I'm just happy with my K3 and recently got my hands on a FA31 for it. Great lens for video as for photos.

Guess I am just torn between indeed something very good but pricey around the corner as the A7s II or the K3 that, aside from SR, still delivers for me.
If Sony comes up with a 1000euro 5 axis model, it will be an easy decision. Pentax=photo, sony= video.
But untill then, I don't see a competitor offering enough more than the K3 to trigger a brand jump for video.

goubejp · 11-25-2014, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

@goubejp: The additional axes are probably to counter tilting the camera rather than shifting... I can see some artefacts due to that on my K-5 in video... much better than electronic SR of course, but not perfect.

Tilting the camera need a translation of the sensor to counteract. According to a communication made by Sony, the additional axis are provided for lenses with image stabilisation. I think optical image stabilisation may tilt a little bit the focusing plane- like with a decentered lens - and the sensor tilt can counteract that

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11-20-2014, 08:25 AM	#16
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	I too think it's something else.

11-20-2014, 08:35 AM	#17
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex For everyone who hates the 'electronic' SR and wants the Sensor Shift technology re-enabled! Î±7 â…¡ 5-axis SteadyShot INSIDE from Sony: Official Video Release - YouTube Fills me with ARRRRGH!! to know Pentax had this for video, and have disabled it! You should have used the "For everyone who hates the 'electronic' SR and wants the Sensor Shift technology re-enabled!" as the title, then folks like me would have ignored it. Your idea of "getting ti right" and my idea of "getting it right " are miles apart. My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video. But, you must have wanted my input, or you would have selected a more definitive title for your thread.

11-20-2014, 09:08 AM	#18
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	If you want to hear the SR make noise, just use a manual lens and dial-in a high focal length, like 500. Shakes like crazy...

11-20-2014, 09:26 AM	#19
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	@norm: This is the video segment. Originally posted by vonBaloney If you want to hear the SR make noise, just use a manual lens and dial-in a high focal length, like 500. Shakes like crazy... Yes, it does. Still can't hear a thing though in most of my videos, if not all. It's a tiny tiny issue. Sony A7II gets in-body 5 axis stabilisation and S-LOG 2 - EOSHD A bit more info on the camera, plus comments from a filmmaker. Quote: The Sony A7 II gets some really useful additions for video as well as the amazing stabilisation system which I loved so much on the OM-D E-M1. There’s no real reason to have an E-M1 now this is out. It says a lot about how useful 5 axis stabilisation was with all my lenses that I kept it this long. Keep in mind that the E-M1 lacked frame rates above or below 30 fps... meaning it can result in flickering video in Europe. Besides not being in a useful frame rate to begin with. Still the stabilization was enough for him to use it, because it is that useful.

11-20-2014, 02:45 PM	#20
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Over.Pentax.Waited.Long.Enough.You.Had.It.Working.Already.?.!.See.You.Later.

11-20-2014, 02:50 PM	#21
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by normhead My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video. But, you must have wanted my input, or you would have selected a more definitive title for your thread. Sure, maybe you don't use video, but with just a few little (nearly inexpensive tweaks), Pentax could sell units to a much wider market, without hurting the capabilities of the still photos. Its just that Pentax keeps making odd mistakes when it comes to video, from codecs, mic jack, AF, peaking, connectivity,.. and who knows, if you have a video option, maybe you will take a video some day. Adding some video to a blog, a youtube channel, a portfolio.. Though, I almost never use video myself and don't "care" about it in the direct sense. I would love a "barebones" camera, all about the sensor and photo modes in a small, well-built package.

11-21-2014, 12:25 AM	#22
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by richandfleur Over.Pentax.Waited.Long.Enough.You.Had.It.Working.Already.?.!.See.You.Later. I'm not sure how much greener the grass on the other side really is though.. Pentax Ricoh K-3 DSLR Review \| Videomaker.com

11-21-2014, 02:23 AM	#23
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Originally posted by grispie I'm not sure how much greener the grass on the other side really is though.. Pentax Ricoh K-3 DSLR Review \| Videomaker.com I'm not reading anything here is that says they are doing video right? Yes it's a solid weather sealed stills camera.

11-21-2014, 03:14 AM	#24
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by richandfleur Yes it's a solid weather sealed stills camera. we must have read a different review. I didn't read anything about stills. But my point is: how much greener is the other side really and at what cost?

11-21-2014, 04:34 AM	#25
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by grispie we must have read a different review. I didn't read anything about stills. But my point is: how much greener is the other side really and at what cost? While the video only talks about video, there is not a single comment on the bitrate. On how good the codec is. Moire? Aliasing? The crop (good luck shooting really wide angle...). Have they even held a K-3 or is it a spec sheet based review that pretends to be a real one? The comments about wind noise can be made about every camera.

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11-21-2014, 04:48 AM	#26
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by kadajawi Have they even held a K-3 or is it a spec sheet based review that pretends to be a real one? Valid point that I questioned myself as well. I have the feeling they went somewhere in between & looked at it from a "budget" POV. Actually, I'll register & ask the question about their thoughts on the codec, moire and so. The last review i remember from cinema5d didn't really do it much good, but there i had the opposite feeling it was tested with a lot of bias. This said,the review made me wonder about a possible future A7s with 5 axis SS. I mean, yes, that would be top notch, but so will the price be. I read somewhere the A7 II would be 1800euro at entry. For the price I paid, I am still happy with the K3 video performance and regarding SR, I am more & more getting the handle of how to deal with it. (this said, I do agree with everyone that says it should have remained mechanical and there is really no good reason they changed it...) I'm just throwing my thoughts out there..

11-21-2014, 05:12 AM	#27
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	I thought the a7 II would cost about as much as the predecessor. The Sony's aren't cheap, but so is the K-3. Just with the price cuts (low demand?) did it get affordable. And you are getting a ton of camera with the a7S II (I have no doubt that that will come. It makes no sense for them not to do so). Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere.

11-21-2014, 05:35 AM	#28
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381 Original Poster	Originally posted by normhead My idea of "getting it right" has nothing to do with video. Then why are you reading the Video posts? Originally posted by kadajawi Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere. I was planning on getting a K3, but as the K5II keeps getting more and more affordable, and as I really only need the on-camera audio for syncing... How do you lock down the exposure again?

11-21-2014, 07:22 AM	#29
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by kadajawi I thought the a7 II would cost about as much as the predecessor. The Sony's aren't cheap, but so is the K-3. Just with the price cuts (low demand?) did it get affordable. And you are getting a ton of camera with the a7S II (I have no doubt that that will come. It makes no sense for them not to do so). Btw., why not get a K-5? They are cheap these days and have proper SR. The codec can handle tough scenes better than the K-3. Just overheating is an issue, but the hot pixels are easy enough to fix in Premiere. Prices always come down after a couple of months, correct. Still, the A7s II will be a chunk if i'd want it. And probably I will :-) But then again, i'd don't need a FF and you're still paying for that as well. I'd be happy with sthing like the A6000 with 5 axis and audioinput possibility through my Azden. Maybe it will come as well. K5? if i cross a good cheap one... just to give it a try. want manual control. Guess I'm just happy with my K3 and recently got my hands on a FA31 for it. Great lens for video as for photos. Guess I am just torn between indeed something very good but pricey around the corner as the A7s II or the K3 that, aside from SR, still delivers for me. If Sony comes up with a 1000euro 5 axis model, it will be an easy decision. Pentax=photo, sony= video. But untill then, I don't see a competitor offering enough more than the K3 to trigger a brand jump for video.

11-25-2014, 03:55 AM	#30
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	Originally posted by kadajawi @goubejp: The additional axes are probably to counter tilting the camera rather than shifting... I can see some artefacts due to that on my K-5 in video... much better than electronic SR of course, but not perfect. Tilting the camera need a translation of the sensor to counteract. According to a communication made by Sony, the additional axis are provided for lenses with image stabilisation. I think optical image stabilisation may tilt a little bit the focusing plane- like with a decentered lens - and the sensor tilt can counteract that