Sony 'gets' it right (rage Pentax, rage!)

PiDicus Rex · 11-20-2014, 02:18 AM

For everyone who hates the 'electronic' SR and wants the Sensor Shift technology re-enabled!

You Tube

Fills me with ARRRRGH!! to know Pentax had this for video, and have disabled it!

Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 11-27-2014 at 08:49 AM.

Na Horuk · 11-20-2014, 02:35 AM

Well keep in mind that is a propaganda video, of course it will show mind-blowing results. But I do agree, the digital SR in video is terrible - it crops the frame, it adds wobble, its not that effective..
If Pentax is buying sensors from Sony, maybe they can just bundle it with the SR system

goubejp · 11-20-2014, 04:06 AM

5 stabilisation axis ? For me 3 axis are enough to provide stabilisation (2 translations and 1 rotation)

Steve.Ledger · 11-20-2014, 04:20 AM

Already posted, quite a debate too

► https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/279654-pentax-rip.html

kadajawi · 11-20-2014, 04:20 AM

Olympus had this for a while, though only mFT of course, and their video functionality, while outputting actually pretty good video was so limited in settings that it made it useless.

@Na Horuk: The problem isn't the technology. Pentax has it. It isn't the software. Pentax has it (just try live view). The problem is that for some reason Pentax has deactivated the feature.

Btw., Sony offers electronic SR too, and it is miles ahead of Pentaxes version of electronic SR (it seems to be able to counter additional rolling shutter artefacts), but still Sony realizes that mechanical SR is better.

@goubejp: The additional axes are probably to counter tilting the camera rather than shifting... I can see some artefacts due to that on my K-5 in video... much better than electronic SR of course, but not perfect.

I heard rumours that Sony has licensed or some sort of deal with Olympus to get their SR tech. Looks like this is the result.

Dear Pentax: Wake the f*** up. You had a significant lead that could have resulted in more sales, but threw it away. How long until Samsung and Panasonic offer this and really push you out of the market?

Na Horuk · 11-20-2014, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

The problem is that for some reason Pentax has deactivated the feature.

Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode.

Clavius · 11-20-2014, 04:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode.

For the life of me, I am unable to hear it. Is it only with the onboard mono-mic maybe? What sound is it? Is it the clicking? Because that was the first thing I stopped using. Anyway, it was overkill. Disabling mechanical SR in video to solve a little sound is like cutting off your whole leg to remove a wart on your big toe. Or rather, like removing the onboard flash, because it can in some cases cast a shadow when using larger lenses.

Steve.Ledger · 11-20-2014, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

For the life of me, I am unable to hear it.

Yeh, I never heard it with my K-7.
I just played my K-7 vids again, still can't hear it. I've always considered that excuse as total BS.

**Rondec** · 11-20-2014, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

For the life of me, I am unable to hear it. Is it only with the onboard mono-mic maybe? What sound is it? Is it the clicking? Because that was the first thing I stopped using. Anyway, it was overkill. Disabling mechanical SR in video to solve a little sound is like cutting off your whole leg to remove a wart on your big toe. Or rather, like removing the onboard flash, because it can in some cases cast a shadow when using larger lenses.

It is only with the onboard mic. When you use the onboard mic and have the mechanical SR on, you get an electronic high pitched sound sometimes.

Why anyone would use that microphone for even semi professional results is beyond me. Pentax definitely should have left it as an option in the menus to use mechanical SR and just putting a warning somewhere that using it with the onboard mic would result in this noise. Then it is on the user as to whether or not they want to capture sound some other way (I use an external mic), not use the mechanical SR, or just deal with the occasional odd noises.

Steve.Ledger · 11-20-2014, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

...you get an electronic high pitched sound sometimes..

Can it be heard over the AGC 'hiss' ??? I doubt it. Certainly can't with the K-7 videos of mine.

PiDicus Rex · 11-20-2014, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode.

I made cables so I could use external mics,... and have used them to test them, as 99% of everything quiet enough to hear the Sensor Shift, I'd be working with a dedicated sound guy.

Quote:

Can it be heard over the AGC 'hiss' ???

You mean the background noise from the 32kHz sample rate on the K-01 ?
The only time that hiss goes away is when you're filming a rock concert or a racecar.

grispie · 11-20-2014, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

The only time that hiss goes away is when you're filming a rock concert or a racecar.

I bought myself an Azden FMX that has AGC control. Quite happy with that.

On the above,

I was starting to think of buying myself a glidecam or some sort of gimbal device.
Now Sony bringing this to the table... on top of an already more advanced camera for videoshooting than the K3.
However, a stabilizing device can be used in future with any cam.
Confusing

kadajawi · 11-20-2014, 06:58 AM

Wait for the a7S II. Must surely come sooner or later...

I can't hear the sound the SR makes either (and SR works in my K-5), using the built in mic. Maybe if I actually tried to make it heard... i.e. in a completely quiet room and violently shaking around the camera so that hits the limits, then maybe.

It is simply a minor, minor issue that Pentax has countered with a huge overreaction. Especially considering the poor quality of the built in mic.

Glidecams aren't that easy to use. A friend has done that, and he has trouble getting it to turn when he wants it to, or sometimes wind will turn the camera for him...

mamethot · 11-20-2014, 07:51 AM

Maybe the SR in the K-3 overheats, maybe it's just using too much power, maybe, maybe, maybe... ;-)

grispie · 11-20-2014, 08:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mamethot

Maybe the SR in the K-3 overheats, maybe it's just using too much power, maybe, maybe, maybe... ;-)

I am not a believer of the noise theory. even when pentax says so.

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11-20-2014, 02:35 AM	#2
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Well keep in mind that is a propaganda video, of course it will show mind-blowing results. But I do agree, the digital SR in video is terrible - it crops the frame, it adds wobble, its not that effective.. If Pentax is buying sensors from Sony, maybe they can just bundle it with the SR system

11-20-2014, 04:06 AM	#3
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	5 stabilisation axis ? For me 3 axis are enough to provide stabilisation (2 translations and 1 rotation)

11-20-2014, 04:20 AM	#4
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Already posted, quite a debate too ► https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/279654-pentax-rip.html

11-20-2014, 04:20 AM	#5
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Olympus had this for a while, though only mFT of course, and their video functionality, while outputting actually pretty good video was so limited in settings that it made it useless. @Na Horuk: The problem isn't the technology. Pentax has it. It isn't the software. Pentax has it (just try live view). The problem is that for some reason Pentax has deactivated the feature. Btw., Sony offers electronic SR too, and it is miles ahead of Pentaxes version of electronic SR (it seems to be able to counter additional rolling shutter artefacts), but still Sony realizes that mechanical SR is better. @goubejp: The additional axes are probably to counter tilting the camera rather than shifting... I can see some artefacts due to that on my K-5 in video... much better than electronic SR of course, but not perfect. I heard rumours that Sony has licensed or some sort of deal with Olympus to get their SR tech. Looks like this is the result. Dear Pentax: Wake the f*** up. You had a significant lead that could have resulted in more sales, but threw it away. How long until Samsung and Panasonic offer this and really push you out of the market?

11-20-2014, 04:26 AM	#6
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by kadajawi The problem is that for some reason Pentax has deactivated the feature. Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode.

11-20-2014, 04:36 AM - 1 Like	#7
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Na Horuk Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode. For the life of me, I am unable to hear it. Is it only with the onboard mono-mic maybe? What sound is it? Is it the clicking? Because that was the first thing I stopped using. Anyway, it was overkill. Disabling mechanical SR in video to solve a little sound is like cutting off your whole leg to remove a wart on your big toe. Or rather, like removing the onboard flash, because it can in some cases cast a shadow when using larger lenses.

11-20-2014, 04:41 AM	#8
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Clavius For the life of me, I am unable to hear it. Yeh, I never heard it with my K-7. I just played my K-7 vids again, still can't hear it. I've always considered that excuse as total BS.

11-20-2014, 04:48 AM	#9
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by Clavius For the life of me, I am unable to hear it. Is it only with the onboard mono-mic maybe? What sound is it? Is it the clicking? Because that was the first thing I stopped using. Anyway, it was overkill. Disabling mechanical SR in video to solve a little sound is like cutting off your whole leg to remove a wart on your big toe. Or rather, like removing the onboard flash, because it can in some cases cast a shadow when using larger lenses. It is only with the onboard mic. When you use the onboard mic and have the mechanical SR on, you get an electronic high pitched sound sometimes. Why anyone would use that microphone for even semi professional results is beyond me. Pentax definitely should have left it as an option in the menus to use mechanical SR and just putting a warning somewhere that using it with the onboard mic would result in this noise. Then it is on the user as to whether or not they want to capture sound some other way (I use an external mic), not use the mechanical SR, or just deal with the occasional odd noises.

11-20-2014, 05:01 AM	#10
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Rondec ...you get an electronic high pitched sound sometimes.. Can it be heard over the AGC 'hiss' ??? I doubt it. Certainly can't with the K-7 videos of mine.

11-20-2014, 05:08 AM	#11
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381 Original Poster	Originally posted by Na Horuk Pentax claims its because of the sound the SR makes. The SR is quite loud, if you try older models, and it does get picked up by microphones in video mode. I made cables so I could use external mics,... and have used them to test them, as 99% of everything quiet enough to hear the Sensor Shift, I'd be working with a dedicated sound guy. Quote: Can it be heard over the AGC 'hiss' ??? You mean the background noise from the 32kHz sample rate on the K-01 ? The only time that hiss goes away is when you're filming a rock concert or a racecar.

11-20-2014, 06:11 AM	#12
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex The only time that hiss goes away is when you're filming a rock concert or a racecar. I bought myself an Azden FMX that has AGC control. Quite happy with that. On the above, I was starting to think of buying myself a glidecam or some sort of gimbal device. Now Sony bringing this to the table... on top of an already more advanced camera for videoshooting than the K3. However, a stabilizing device can be used in future with any cam. Confusing

11-20-2014, 06:58 AM	#13
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Wait for the a7S II. Must surely come sooner or later... I can't hear the sound the SR makes either (and SR works in my K-5), using the built in mic. Maybe if I actually tried to make it heard... i.e. in a completely quiet room and violently shaking around the camera so that hits the limits, then maybe. It is simply a minor, minor issue that Pentax has countered with a huge overreaction. Especially considering the poor quality of the built in mic. Glidecams aren't that easy to use. A friend has done that, and he has trouble getting it to turn when he wants it to, or sometimes wind will turn the camera for him...

11-20-2014, 07:51 AM	#14
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	Maybe the SR in the K-3 overheats, maybe it's just using too much power, maybe, maybe, maybe... ;-)

11-20-2014, 08:22 AM - 1 Like	#15
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by mamethot Maybe the SR in the K-3 overheats, maybe it's just using too much power, maybe, maybe, maybe... ;-) I am not a believer of the noise theory. even when pentax says so.