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01-03-2015, 09:15 PM   #16
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"Almost as good for almost as cheap" is another way of saying inferior and overpriced. What will the Mark 4 bring that the Mark 3 didn't bring and why did Canon sit on something with the last release? My main point from my question is what will they bring to the table this time to justify that kind of price? Unless they break some new ground, why would anyone other than a fanboy pay a premium price for another version of the 5D?

Jason

01-03-2015, 10:22 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
"Almost as good for almost as cheap" is another way of saying inferior and overpriced. What will the Mark 4 bring that the Mark 3 didn't bring and why did Canon sit on something with the last release? My main point from my question is what will they bring to the table this time to justify that kind of price? Unless they break some new ground, why would anyone other than a fanboy pay a premium price for another version of the 5D?

Jason
Im not a canon user myself but from what i can see, the mk3 was a pretty big jump from the mk2. Canon are doing some pretty big things. Literally - their upcoming 50+ mp camera is a good indication i think. So, i think we can expect big things from this camera
01-05-2015, 09:40 PM   #18
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No surprise. Canon didn't have much of a choice. The 5D3 ...MP wise...was woefully under the Nikon D810....and yet the cost was similar. I'm assuming Canon is making the sensor...if so, not sure it will be as good as the Nikon's Sony sensor. I've got Canon stuff and on Canon sites there's a a group that don't feel that the Canon sensor compares to the Sony sensor.

The other thing...I wonder what 5D3's will be selling for, when the 5D4 comes out.
01-05-2015, 10:10 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
No surprise. Canon didn't have much of a choice. The 5D3 ...MP wise...was woefully under the Nikon D810....and yet the cost was similar. I'm assuming Canon is making the sensor...if so, not sure it will be as good as the Nikon's Sony sensor. I've got Canon stuff and on Canon sites there's a a group that don't feel that the Canon sensor compares to the Sony sensor.

The other thing...I wonder what 5D3's will be selling for, when the 5D4 comes out.
That hasnt stopped it from being the most popular camera for pro use...

01-05-2015, 10:10 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I've got Canon stuff
Les, I'm curious about what "Canon stuff" you possess? Because when I read your words it seems like you are clueless about the use and acceptance of the 5DMK3 in the real world, instead adapting some silly narrative favored by people who never get outside. 99% of my peers and friends could care less about sensors, they rely on dependability, system choices, professional services, and operational excellence. The ones who have purchased a Sony A7 series, like it for the portability and for personal use, but I don't know anyone who would risk it for a serious gig. In reality, gear comprises a very small amount of mindshare; most folks are dealing with changing economics (and business strategy) that result in increasingly lean and absurd fees. Getting software right--not camera hardware--is the biggest technical challenge that my friends face.

Canon gear holds its value in the marketplace. I'm surprised at how even with rebates the 5DMK3 is about $ 2700-2800. And a six year old used 7D sells for about the same as a new K-3. Wonder why that is?

Canon was eating Nikon's lunch with the 5DMK3, which is why they came out with the D750, a really nice camera, but one squarely aimed at the 5D franchise.

M
01-06-2015, 12:17 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
The ones who have purchased a Sony A7 series, like it for the portability and for personal use, but I don't know anyone who would risk it for a serious gig.
According to Chris Large:
QuoteQuote:
Just a heads up...any one a fan of FARGO ?......I shot season 1, maybe 50% with Sony. I start F A R G O 2 in 2 weeks....it'll be total 100% Sony A7s, A7, A7r....mainly A7s......I'll keep you posted
01-06-2015, 03:51 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
Les, I'm curious about what "Canon stuff" you possess? Because when I read your words it seems like you are clueless about the use and acceptance of the 5DMK3 in the real world, instead adapting some silly narrative favored by people who never get outside. 99% of my peers and friends could care less about sensors, they rely on dependability, system choices, professional services, and operational excellence. The ones who have purchased a Sony A7 series, like it for the portability and for personal use, but I don't know anyone who would risk it for a serious gig. In reality, gear comprises a very small amount of mindshare; most folks are dealing with changing economics (and business strategy) that result in increasingly lean and absurd fees. Getting software right--not camera hardware--is the biggest technical challenge that my friends face.

Canon gear holds its value in the marketplace. I'm surprised at how even with rebates the 5DMK3 is about $ 2700-2800. And a six year old used 7D sells for about the same as a new K-3. Wonder why that is?

Canon was eating Nikon's lunch with the 5DMK3, which is why they came out with the D750, a really nice camera, but one squarely aimed at the 5D franchise.

M
I think the two things people miss are that the differences in these full frame cameras are a lot smaller than they appear based DXO Mark scores and that professionals buy based on glass and not on camera bodies. Every one of these camera bodies is very capable -- the D610, D750, 5DMK -3 -- they all will take great photos. The biggest difference, as far as I can see, with regard to sensor performance is in low iso dynamic range. And if you are satisfied with the glass you have and aren't struggling with processing your images, then why would you care if Nikon sensors test a little better on DXO Mark's sensor ratings?

01-06-2015, 11:51 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the two things people miss are that the differences in these full frame cameras are a lot smaller than they appear based DXO Mark scores and that professionals buy based on glass and not on camera bodies. Every one of these camera bodies is very capable -- the D610, D750, 5DMK -3 -- they all will take great photos. The biggest difference, as far as I can see, with regard to sensor performance is in low iso dynamic range. And if you are satisfied with the glass you have and aren't struggling with processing your images, then why would you care if Nikon sensors test a little better on DXO Mark's sensor ratings?
That's a good point.
All people look at is the "overall score" DxO rating and that score is VERY misleading.
If you look at the actual measurements of the 6D, 5DMk3, D610, D750, D800, you will see that except at base ISO, the curves are right on top of each other.
In fact, if you are above ~ISO 1000, the 6D has better DR than all the Nikons except the brand new D750. And even then they are neck and neck.

I guess my point is, if you are only going to shoot at low ISO, pretty much a landscape specialist, then the D750 is the camera for you.
But if you are a generalist that shoots people in restaurants, at parties, running around children, sports, etc. then the Canon more than holds it's own. Heck, the cheapest FF Canon, the 6D has better DR than the mighty D810 above ISO 600!
01-06-2015, 03:29 PM   #24
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D600 has better dynamic range it seems
Canon 6D review: Noise and dynamic range | Digital slrs/hybrids Reviews | TechRadar

My "cheap" full frame actually beats the most widely used pro camera in this regard

Last edited by neostyles; 01-06-2015 at 03:42 PM.
01-06-2015, 03:41 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Perhaps you didn't read the article you quoted very carefully or what DxO measurements show.
Yes, at LOW ISOs the 6D's DR lags behind the D600.
At ISO 1000 and higher the 6D over takes everyone:

This chart indicates that TIFF images (after conversion from raw) from the Canon EOS 6D have a similar level of dynamic range as the JPEG images. The 6D starts out producing less dynamic range than the Nikon D600 and Canon EOS 5D Mk III, but a greater range than the Canon EOS 7D and Sony Alpha a77. But by ISO 400 it is the second best performer behind the Nikon, and at higher ISOs it takes the lead by a significant margin.

Taking a quick look at your Flickr, I noticed a lot of your shots were taken at ISO 1600 and higher. At these ISOs, the 6D's sensor would've been performing better than your D600.
01-06-2015, 05:43 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
D600 has better dynamic range it seems
Canon 6D review: Noise and dynamic range | Digital slrs/hybrids Reviews | TechRadar

My "cheap" full frame actually beats the most widely used pro camera in this regard
If you look at DXO Mark, you find that SNR is exactly the same for the 5D Mk III and the D600 throughout the whole curve, dynamic range is equivalent from iso800 on (the 6D does better than either above iso 800). This means that unless you are a landscape shooter, shooting at low iso on a tripod, you are better off with 6D than a D600. If you need low iso dynamic range, a K5 does as well as any of these cameras for a lot less money.
01-06-2015, 07:27 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If you look at DXO Mark, you find that SNR is exactly the same for the 5D Mk III and the D600 throughout the whole curve, dynamic range is equivalent from iso800 on (the 6D does better than either above iso 800). This means that unless you are a landscape shooter, shooting at low iso on a tripod, you are better off with 6D than a D600. If you need low iso dynamic range, a K5 does as well as any of these cameras for a lot less money.
Heh, but isnt that kind of the point? You are supposed to use your lowest native iso to maximize color and tone? As an artist, i like to keep my options open. During daylight, i will shoot in my lowest iso, but i like that freedom of being able to jump up to higher isos as i loose light and still being able to pull off handheld shots. This is where pentax is losing out to the competition. Nikon/canon both have options aimed at at the pro who may be shooting in a wide variety of conditions. .
01-06-2015, 07:56 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Heh, but isnt that kind of the point? You are supposed to use your lowest native iso to maximize color and tone? As an artist, i like to keep my options open. During daylight, i will shoot in my lowest iso, but i like that freedom of being able to jump up to higher isos as i loose light and still being able to pull off handheld shots. This is where pentax is losing out to the competition. Nikon/canon both have options aimed at at the pro who may be shooting in a wide variety of conditions. .
You buy a camera for what you plan to do. Most cameras are some set of compromises. If you just want to do low iso landscapes, then your best camera is a 645z, if you can foot the bill. If you want high iso capability, a D4s or a Sony A7s will blow most other full frame cameras away, even though they aren't as good at low iso.

The thing to remember is that even the dynamic range isn't quite as good on the 6D at low iso, the noise will be the same as your D600 at all isos.

APS-C cameras are what they are. Compared to the cameras of the past, they are awfully good. It is just that current full frame options have gotten better as well. But I like Pentax glass and so I continue to shoot with their cameras, even though maybe full frame cameras are more powerful tools.
01-06-2015, 10:00 PM   #29
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The d600 is an awfully well rounded package imo. It has plenty of dynamic range for landscapes and im still amazed at how much flexibility i get in post. But at the same time the 50mm along with the high iso peformance has allowed me to do low light shots hand held which i never thought was possible. The a7s looks amazing right, but i dont think i could part with my 24 megapixels of super detaily goodness :P

Last edited by neostyles; 01-06-2015 at 10:07 PM.
01-07-2015, 10:01 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
... But I like Pentax glass and so I continue to shoot with their cameras
I dunno. I have 5 camera brands. I find the glass on each system just as good as the next and like mounting Zeiss on the ones that you can. If you had, say, a Nikon or a Canon, I believe you'd come to like the glass available for those systems just as much as you do with your Ricoh system.
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