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12-07-2014, 11:38 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
What I need most often is range...the more the better
The best wildlife photographers rarely use lenses over 600mm, the reason for this is often due to physical as well as practical limitations of extreme optics. The 400mm f/2.8 with 2X TC I mentioned it the longest lens I will ever work with in the field and I don't use that combination often. With larger formats like, 8X10 format I have used a 1200mm f/11 lens, but that is nothing compared to 35mm extreme telephoto lenses.

but back to 35mm 500mm+ super telephoto lenses: there are technical issues that are common with this class of optic, vibrations are amplified and issues such as atmospheric distortion and haze can become distinctly problematic. There is a lot you can do to keep your camera stable, tripods, monopods, beanbags and harnesses can assist with keeping the camera itself stable and ensure good IQ but 500mm+ lenses invariably require strong support - I would suggest a Kirk king cobra or a full gimbal Mount - using a ball head with a super telephoto lens sucks. All but the very best ball heads sag under the weight when locked down and change the composition. Geared tripod heads allow ( like the Manfrotto 405MG, or the Arca Swiss cube) one to adjust each axis separately with extremely high precision - but they can be slow to work with. A gimbal, if properly used can handle long lenses and allow you to move the lens freely in all directions and be locked down at a moments notice. In camera IS and optical OS can only compensate for so much, and they take a few seconds to wind up, precious seconds that may be the difference between getting the shot - and not.

There isn't much that can be done about atmospheric distortions,A while ago @Falk lumo did an interesting practical analysis on the subject, the technique he applied simply isn't practical when working with wildlife photography.

To be honest you can buy all this FX format crap if you want- I really can't stop you, and in any case: frankly isn't really my business on how you choose to spend your money. But if you think for one instant that getting a full frame cameras is going to make your photography better simply because of its supposedly better low light ability - and ignore the differences in DOF, lens FOV, AF performance, and image noise. Remember, in the end it is the artist that is important - not the brushes they use.


Pentax K10D - Sigma 100-300mm f/4 APO EX DG


Last edited by Digitalis; 12-08-2014 at 06:04 PM.
12-08-2014, 12:08 AM   #47
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To be honest Nikon has been tempting me for quite a while.
Pentax makes great bodies (as in, the metal shell) and ergonomics, but the rest seems to be lagging behind the other big players. AF, flash, lens selection and even lens prices. A tough call indeed.
12-08-2014, 02:11 AM   #48
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I have a D810, and it's a great camera, and I am also dabbling in micro four thirds. In this case, one might think that an APS-C system would be surplus to requirements, but one would be wrong. While I like my D810, I don't love the size and weight of the lenses I have for it (apart from the 50mm f1.8, which is nice and light). Ah, but I have my Olympuses, which are small and light! Well, yeah, but to be honest, micro four thirds just doesn't cut it when it comes to IQ, though others may argue with me there. I will never abandon my Pentax gear. It strikes the right balance between size (not too big, not too small) and IQ. In any case, how could I ever give up the wonderful 60-250mm f4, or the 31mm f1.8 Limited, or the DA* 300 or..... Well, you get the picture. If Pentax bring out that elusive full frame, I'll keep the D810 for its 36 megapixels (until I can afford a 645Z), unless of course the Pentax has 36 megapixels or more, but I'll be selling the majority of my Nikon lenses.

My K-3 and K-5 IIs just feel right in my hand, their interfaces are intuitive and, let's face it, they have soul!
12-08-2014, 07:21 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The best wildlife photographers rarely use lenses over 600mm
That's not going out on a limb to make that statement!


The closer you can get, the better the image. Of course, I am never going to be the "best wildlife photographer" anyhow....I just want to get the shot as best I can.

If I can get close enough even my little Toy Camera X20 will do for me.
X20


One thing I haven't seen mentioned regarding wildlife shooting is "Luck". It takes a lot of good luck along with equipment and skill to get great shots......sometimes we forget that?

BTW- Loved your bird in flight shot!

Regards!

12-08-2014, 07:36 AM   #50
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Even with my A-400 it can be really difficult to even find a bird in the viewfinder.. put the 1.7 converter on it and take it up to 680mm and you need a spotting scope.
12-08-2014, 09:01 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
^ What he said.... if you use 600 on an FF and 400 on APS-c, you have exactly the same ability to crop on both systems as long as they are 24 Mp. The 6000x4000 pixels for the D750, 6000x400 pixels for the K-3, The number of pixels is the same on both....so if lenses are equivalent, you need a much more expensive lens on FF to get the same field of view. IN low light you may have a bit of an advantage with a D750. If DoF is is important, then you are going to get more DoF using APS-c for a given ƒ-stop.

Hey, if you want to go for a full frame, don't let me talk you out of it. But I have the reach you plan to achieve with a D750 and 150-600 with my $500 SMC A-400. There may be other features that make the D750 attractive. I don't know I've never met a D750 shooter up here in wildlife land. But it's a new camera so, maybe soon.

For me it's really simple, there are no 600mm lenses that I'm capable of carrying on hikes, because of weight, and when you go to a bigger lens, you need heavier tripod. I don't know about the 150-600 it seems like a goo lens. But I seriously doubt it's DA* 300 + TC quality, or DA 560 quality. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will correct me.

Maybe the 150-600 is better, and it could be marginally better on an FF. But my experience with Tamron and Sigma long zooms is that they are pretty bad in the long end. For me, send them back to the store and get my money back bad, but, who knows maybe Tarmon hit a home run with this lens and things will work out for you.

Check out the goose, further down this page,
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/55946-300mm-plus-lens-club...ml#post3062629
Hi I have tried a 150-600 briefly & not so heavy,balances well on Nikon/Canon,and from alot of reviews its sharp at 600,whereas Sigma 150 or 50-500 is not that sharp at the long end. I doubt its as good as my DA*300 though. Hard to find a 400 pentax??if they come with the new zooms I would be happy.
I thought with FF D810 for example I can have best of both worlds 36MP when needed & 16 APS-C for longer shots.
As mentioned later in this thread atmospheric distortion is a problem alot, and not much to do if I can't get closer
12-08-2014, 09:05 AM   #52
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For these kind of shots I love the Pentax setup
OOC Jpeg, RAW is a bit better

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12-08-2014, 09:11 AM   #53
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Shot at 250mm DA*60-250, getting close is always the best option for pictures. It's amazing how fast that atmosphere clicks in, and how fast you lose detail as you back up. Small detail becomes less and less visible at a distance, no matter what lens you use. I like my Sigma 70-300 images, if the subject is close enough to maintain detail.



This one shot at 98mm..., a long lens is not always necessary, and a close shot with a wider less is almost always better than a long shot with a long lens, unless you can't actually get close. With a 150-600- you don't even get this shot. Most of the guys I'm shooting beside in the park are using 70-200s with 2x TCs on FF. My 60-250 covers that range nicely. There are also lots of guys shooting longer, usually birders, but the FF guys have to shoot 600mm to get what I get with my A-400. They carry one huge lens on a huge tripod, I carry one smallish lens on a smallish tripod by comparison, in my back pack with the DA* 60-250 and HD DA 1.4 on the camera in good light, or just the DA*60-250 when light starts to fail.



In areas like this, you won't get this guy with a long lens, because where they live the bush is too thick. You really have to go someplace like Yellowstone with open vistas to even be able to take advantage of a long lens, much of the time.

Last edited by normhead; 12-08-2014 at 09:21 AM.
12-08-2014, 09:14 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
That's not going out on a limb to make that statement!


The closer you can get, the better the image. Of course, I am never going to be the "best wildlife photographer" anyhow....I just want to get the shot as best I can.

If I can get close enough even my little Toy Camera X20 will do for me.
X20


One thing I haven't seen mentioned regarding wildlife shooting is "Luck". It takes a lot of good luck along with equipment and skill to get great shots......sometimes we forget that?

BTW- Loved your bird in flight shot!

Regards!
So you're saying that "Goodbye and thanks for all the luck" is enough for Otis and his friends after a session? Hmmn. In my experience it can take a lot of good peanuts and other treats to get great shots ...
12-08-2014, 09:24 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
So you're saying that "Goodbye and thanks for all the luck" is enough for Otis and his friends after a session? Hmmn. In my experience it can take a lot of good peanuts and other treats to get great shots ...
Every now and then I wonder how many lenses I could buy if I got back all the money I've spent on feeder seed, peanuts and mixed nuts for my guys.
12-08-2014, 11:52 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
So you're saying that "Goodbye and thanks for all the luck" is enough for Otis and his friends after a session? Hmmn. In my experience it can take a lot of good peanuts and other treats to get great shots ...
Luck wouldn't get many squirrel shots around here. These guys demand feed, and plenty of it !

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Every now and then I wonder how many lenses I could buy if I got back all the money I've spent on feeder seed, peanuts and mixed nuts for my guys.
Agree 100% as I head out this afternoon for my monthly trip to the feed store. The more I buy the more they eat...it only gets worse with time.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
In areas like this, you won't get this guy with a long lens, because where they live the bush is too thick.
Agree with that too....Longhorns like to spend a lot of their time in thick brush, and a big zoom or long lens will not do much except hang up in the bushes as you try to track them down. Moments after this shot he was off into that brush.....most likely waiting to ambush me if I followed?

I shot this one with a Pentax 645 120 Macro mounted on my old K20D. I was able to get pretty close....as close as I dared!


BTW- Love that last shot...the light on the antlers was just right!

Regards!
12-09-2014, 01:12 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Hi planning to get a FF D750 or 810 soonish,as need longer glass 150-600 or 100-400 .
I just think if I get on my Pentax gear K5II & some good glass ,maybe $3500 in all invested,will never get used after I see what the FF can do. I love Pentax for the tank body & size & primes ,but will find it hard to be satisfied with landscapes or wildlife shots,once I use the FF system, and the amount of detail there is, and low light capabilities.
Anyone who has both systems D750/ 810 & Pentax--- do you still use your Pentax gear & for what? I need some good reasons not to sell it all off

Thanks for any help
I have all but stopped using a cropped body, the only time I dig out the K5 is just to have a little fun around the office.
Out in the field it’s hard to give up the versatility of the D800 for wildlife photography
When Nikon released the 36mp FF camera I knew this is what I was for in a system for wildlife
12-09-2014, 05:28 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Tell the truth D750/810 owners
Hi planning to get a FF D750 or 810 soonish,as need longer glass 150-600 or 100-400 .
I just think if I get on my Pentax gear K5II & some good glass ,maybe $3500 in all invested,will never get used after I see what the FF can do. I love Pentax for the tank body & size & primes ,but will find it hard to be satisfied with landscapes or wildlife shots,once I use the FF system, and the amount of detail there is, and low light capabilities.
Anyone who has both systems D750/ 810 & Pentax--- do you still use your Pentax gear & for what? I need some good reasons not to sell it all off

Thanks for any help
Look I don't own a D750, but I did once own a Nikon. I recently tried out a D7100 and D750, and the high ISO on the D750 was very impressive. But the D750 was designed to replace the D600 and D610, and the later did not have very good high ISO ability (There's a web review where the K-3 beats the D600 Nikon D600 vs. Pentax K-3 Image Comparison: Pentax Sweeps Nikon) Even when the D600 first came out, it got walloped by the Canon 6D for high ISO performance. But what is key in all of this, is that Nikon had the oil splatter problem with the D600, and were defeated in court in the U.S. But guess what, Nikons still have serious problems with oil splatter. Honestly, I had no idea how bad it was until a salesman at a local camera store told me about his D7000's problems, so I went home and googled it. There is a whole host of models with the oil splatter problem including the D750 ...... STILL ! and this was the model that was to solve Nikons woes over oil splatter. So just check online for further reports on which models are having the problem.

Anyway, high ISO is really impressive on the D750 - but you don't see me rushing out to buy one ! Its so cheap and tacky in the hand. The button layout is awful , and its not free flowing and ergonomic like a Pentax. But if you are left handed, you could easily live with it - its more of a lefty's camera (No offence to the communists and left handed people !) I think the D7100 and D750 share the exact same body and chassis, and its huge. For me the image quality in terms of colors is real off putting. Even side by side comparisons with Canon, shows that Canon has the color right (6D). The entry level tiers of Nikon have bad colors, as far as I'm concerned, but the top tier look very right........ But thats the product separation in Nikon.

Once you get the D750 or D810, you should make the decision then whether to sell your Pentax gear. Try renting a D750 for a couple of weeks to see if it works for you. But if its snowing or rain where you live you should keep the Pentax gear, because you simply cannot use Nikon gear in the wet, I've heard too many stories from people who have lost Nikons to light rain.

High ISO performance is all an illusion anyway, considering that the Fujifilm X-A1 matches the D750 in high ISO performance.
12-09-2014, 05:54 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
High ISO performance is all an illusion anyway, considering that the Fujifilm X-A1 matches the D750 in high ISO performance.
You are very brave to include Fujifilm in such a comparison ...

There is a valid 1 stop difference in high ISO IQ between 24MP K-3/D7100 grade cameras and 24 MP D610/D750 grade cameras. It's logical, and not that hard to detect when working close to the boundaries of their respective ISO envelopes. All the data and tests around the place support that conclusion too.
12-09-2014, 07:06 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
High ISO performance is all an illusion anyway, considering that the Fujifilm X-A1 matches the D750 in high ISO performance.
I found that hard to believe.....so I went and did the research, and you are right! To my eyes it not only looked as good...it looked better on the X-A1. Imagine ...better ISO for under $500 bucks!

Regards!
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