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12-03-2014, 08:44 PM   #1
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Tell the truth D750/810 owners

Hi planning to get a FF D750 or 810 soonish,as need longer glass 150-600 or 100-400 .
I just think if I get on my Pentax gear K5II & some good glass ,maybe $3500 in all invested,will never get used after I see what the FF can do. I love Pentax for the tank body & size & primes ,but will find it hard to be satisfied with landscapes or wildlife shots,once I use the FF system, and the amount of detail there is, and low light capabilities.
Anyone who has both systems D750/ 810 & Pentax--- do you still use your Pentax gear & for what? I need some good reasons not to sell it all off

Thanks for any help

12-03-2014, 09:25 PM   #2
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Maybe use the full frame for wider shots and the aps for telephoto shots? Takes less length on aps...
12-03-2014, 10:03 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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See my post in the previous thread about the D750. I've written my initial impressions coming from a D600 AND K5. D810 is sublime, absolutely maniacal IQ - ISO 64 has an absurd amount of detail and dynamic range. There are talk from shooters that its really close to 15EV dynamic range with today's RAW software. Then again, 36MP is whopping. sRAW is nice, but there are compromises to be made from shooting it. I've always preferred Nikon's JPEG engine to Pentax's as well. If you're a wildlife shooter then perhaps stay with APS-C. With the D810 you have 1.2 and 1.5 crop modes though and you still retain a huge amount of resolution. Brilliantly large OVF and a WIDE AF point spread too. The D750, has an updated AF system. Faster FPS burst rate and more manageable 24MP files. It too, is also built like a tank. Sure, the K5 I had was awesome, but the D750 is built just as well. Improved gaskets and seals over the D600 and it feels extremely robust and rugged. By going FF you gain higher dynamic range, greater RAW flexibility, higher color-bit depth, low iso detail retention and noise control. I shoot travel, photojournalism and street so my needs are perhaps different from yours. I like K5 but the D750 is in another league - night and day. It will be a cult camera no doubt, but really, it's up to the photographer to really get the most of out it. The DPreview video is a good primer for what it's capable of. Underexpose by 4-5 stops and then push up to a clean looking file full of clean detail? Not a problem.
12-04-2014, 12:20 AM   #4
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Yikes! Your comments pretty much have me sold! Sounds awesome!

12-04-2014, 12:26 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
then push up to a clean looking file full of clean detail? Not a problem.
Don't forget the necessary caveat - big shadow push ups work best from LOW ISO's only, just as illustrated by the dpr video. The dynamic range of the D750/D610/D810 at ISO 6400, for instance, is much, much thinner than it is at ISO 100. The dxomark.com charts illustrate this very well. There is still more headroom in the RAW's than there might be in a K-5, but it doesn't go on forever.
12-04-2014, 12:33 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Don't forget the necessary caveat - big shadow push ups work best from LOW ISO's only, just as illustrated by the dpr video. The dynamic range of the D750/D610/D810 at ISO 6400 is much, much thinner than it is at ISO 100. The dxomark.com charts illustrate this very well. There is still more headroom in the RAW's than there might be in a K-5, but it doesn't go on forever.
I've pushed ISO1600,3200,6400 shots with no issues. The point to be made is that using the right software works wonders. I use photoninja for any noise elimination since it does a better job at than lightroom's algorithm's. Likewise with sharpening, it's all done in Photoshop itself since there is greater control. I still have all my K5 RAW files and there is a substantial leap in RAW flexibility between the K5 and the D750, especially at high ISO. It's not just the visible noise itself, don't forget the structure, the nature of the noise (chroma, colour, luminance). There is a lot more detail retention and dynamic range retention pushing high ISO. For as much as I loved the IBIS in the K5, the D750 has a well dampened shutter. I've shot with the 70-200 f4 VR at 1/2 second and racked to 200mm with sharp results. It's all compromise. Pushing shadows at ISO6400 and running photoninja on my D600 files allowed for detailed prints at 11x16 and over. 24MP on a FF sensor allows for A LOT of head room for processing.

---------- Post added 12-04-14 at 03:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DavidSKAF3 Quote
Yikes! Your comments pretty much have me sold! Sounds awesome!
With any camera purchase, take it for a test first. What sold me is this. Reliability and ease of use. The AF system is borrowed from the D4s and actually improved. It tracks reliably and the 3D tracking is impeccable. I love it, even the group focus points (diamond array of four AF points) is terrific for clustering around a face and the D750 has face priority metering so those on-the-go travel portraits are always exposed right the first time. I leave it on matrix metering and let the camera do what it does. It's a true D700 successor. Maybe not in body style, but at the price point - the image IQ is sublime, metering spot on (flash metering is sweet-jesus accurate, I love that I can couple and uncouple it with my body exposure compensation - listening, Canon?!) and it's sorted out most of the nuances I had with the D600.

When you grow as a photog you will really appreciate Nikons CLS. I can bring a few speedlights on a shoot, set them up, group them and control the compensation and guide numbers differently all from my body. The Sb-700s also pick up when I use different gels to. It's what sets them apart from Canon and why most of my commerical and paid photog friends all use Nikon and their CLS system. No bullshit, pop the in built flash up and away you go.
12-04-2014, 12:50 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
do you still use your Pentax gear & for what?
Different cameras for different purposes. You will never find one camera or system to do it all.
- K-3 for general duties and telephoto, due to awesome AF, excellent low-light, WR and 1.5 crop. Also I love the DA*300+K-3 combo. Unrivalled.
- RX-100 for pocket, NEX-F3 for light walkabout and family snaps.
- Nikon D610 for just one stop of cleaner, better high ISO output when doing low-light event shooting (eg night rodeo), which saves hours of effort when processing 1000+ event shots.
- Canon SX50 for superzoom reach, just for fun.

Use the tool that does the job best. That's why most tool boxes have more than one type hammer or screw-driver inside. And if you shop prudently, being a multi-system user need not be prohibitively expensive.

Having said all that, if Pentax releases a good FF next year that matches the D610/D750 at higher ISO's, I'll sell all my Nikon gear without any qualms.

---------- Post added 2014-12-04 at 07:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
...There is a lot more detail retention and dynamic range retention pushing high ISO.
Now the D750 is a nice camera, to be sure, but let's not 'gild the lily' about it's dynamic range advantage, especially at higher ISO's:

From dxomark.com

Last edited by rawr; 12-04-2014 at 01:12 AM.
12-04-2014, 01:13 AM   #8
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Ive owned both and there is certainly a BIG difference to real world shooting with both of them. 35,000 frames with the D600 and 4000+ with the D750. its a big leap forward, especially the AF module and metering systems employed. if we're banging on about DxO it still trumps anything from Canon and Pentax.

12-04-2014, 01:35 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
its a big leap forward, especially the AF module and metering systems employed.
No doubt. But in engineering terms, the main changes between D610 and D750 are the AF module (Multi-CAM 2700 vs Multi-CAM 3500 II), and the image processing chip (EXPEED 3 vs EXPEED 4), and the 2k vs 90k RGB metering sensor. Plus a bunch of associated refinements, including flippy screen and video codecs etc. Sensor is the same, however.

Last edited by rawr; 12-04-2014 at 01:45 AM.
12-04-2014, 01:47 AM   #10
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Eh, Ive noticed a difference shooting RAW. Nothing revolutionary but it's there. Regardless of how minor the differe ces are its enough to not want me shift to APSC Pentax for the foreseeable future. The 'bunch' of refinements are what will make this body a cult camera. It's what the D600 should have been all along. its a complete body that can handle almost any situation at ease, far beyond that of its immediate competition. For a traveler, even thd metering upgrade and face detect is worth the upgrade alone IMO. 1200 shots per charge is a glee too.
12-04-2014, 02:09 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blitz_ Quote
face detect is worth the upgrade alone IMO
It's always puzzled me why the 91k metering sensor in the D800 (and now the D810 and D750) could utilize face detection, but the 86k metering sensor of the K-3 couldn't. Even more puzzling is that the K-3 writes the number of faces it detects into it's EXIF when using viewfinder focus, but it doesn't seem to make any use the faces it has detected to improve focus or exposure. Face detection in the K-3 seems to be strictly a Live View thing, alas.
12-04-2014, 05:02 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Different cameras for different purposes. You will never find one camera or system to do it all.
- K-3 for general duties and telephoto, due to awesome AF, excellent low-light, WR and 1.5 crop. Also I love the DA*300+K-3 combo. Unrivalled.
- RX-100 for pocket, NEX-F3 for light walkabout and family snaps.
- Nikon D610 for just one stop of cleaner, better high ISO output when doing low-light event shooting (eg night rodeo), which saves hours of effort when processing 1000+ event shots.
- Canon SX50 for superzoom reach, just for fun.

Use the tool that does the job best. That's why most tool boxes have more than one type hammer or screw-driver inside. And if you shop prudently, being a multi-system user need not be prohibitively expensive.

Having said all that, if Pentax releases a good FF next year that matches the D610/D750 at higher ISO's, I'll sell all my Nikon gear without any qualms.

---------- Post added 2014-12-04 at 07:07 PM ----------



Now the D750 is a nice camera, to be sure, but let's not 'gild the lily' about it's dynamic range advantage, especially at higher ISO's:

From dxomark.com

I find it interesting that with just a whole lot of research and not a whole lot of real world experience I have come to a very similar "philosophy" towards all these options. But I do have one new caveat: I have to want to use the cameras I buy.


For quite some time I bought cameras just for getting Gold Awards. Figured that was best, since I didn't understand a whole lot of what the reviews were talking about. I just knew I wanted great photos! But in inexperienced hands even your Gold Award cameras can produce ordinary looking snapshots. So yes, they have to be tested and played with and I have to "feel" some kind of a "connection" or I will probably not use it. Other cameras that did this for me were the Konica Minolta A200, the retro looking Pentax 750Z, the Canon Pro1, the Canon S3 IS, and the tiny Sony P150. I have a feeling I might like the Fujifilm HS50EXR, and the Nikon 1 V2 and P7800, despite their criticisms. I'd really like a re-vamped Pentax MX-1 with a viewfinder!


But I did notice I just enjoy using some cameras more than others. That's a big reason I'm shooting Pentax.


Anyway. I have an RX100. I'm not in love with it at all. I'm gonna let it go. Same for the NEX-7. But the NEX-7's IQ stands out in a way I can't ignore, so it gets lots of second chances with me. I really should figure out how to customize the buttons, because that is the big hang up. And the limited native lens choice thing...


My tiny LF1 is a B@#tch to use, but it has a viewfinder, a slightly larger than average sensor, and a 28-200 lens, despite its diminutive size! So it's still my go-to "tiny" pocket camera, flaws and all. So sue me. Last summer I spent an afternoon shooting with the FZ200 and the LF1. I was amazed by the IQ of the little LF1 compared to the FZ200, even though the LF1 was so much more fiddly and aggravating to use! But it delivered. Is it the 1/1.7" sensor vs the 1/2.3" sensor? The quality of the glass? I dunno.

Then there's the Olympus Stylus 1. I love this camera almost as much as my K-3. It actually goes around with me more often than my RX100, FZ200, or SX50 HS. Or the K-3, for that matter. I won't try to sell it to you, you probably know about it. And it takes some pretty crappy pictures at higher ISO's. But I like it anyway. The point is that it makes me happy. I want to always bring it along. It's fun. Just like all the K-series cameras I've owned so far from Pentax.

I'm telling you all this because you sort of reiterated what I've been thinking myself of late.


Also you mentioned the SX50. You keep it around for fun, you said, and I completely agree. The FZ200 is great, it's lightweight, more fully featured, and definitely easier to work with, but it's IQ at 24x zoom IMHO falls apart too quickly. A real let down. I mean, you gotta do way too much tweaking to get the FZ200's images up to snuff. This has been my experience with the entire FZ series all along. Great hardware, so-so IQ. They should lure a Canon or Nikon algorithm guy to come on board! But perhaps the new FZ1000 is a world of difference, and marks the start of new chapter for FZ cameras. But given the FZ1000's overall size, I can't see buying one when I've already got a similarly sized APS-C K-3. So I'm gonna keep my SX50 and the FZ200 is gonna go. The SX50 has that "je ne sais quoi" fun factor despite its numerous flaws and limitations. I don't mind switching lenses with the K-3, but compacts IMHO should have a viewfinder, more than a 3x or 5x zoom, and be noise free at least from ISO 100-400. I know this is either an amateurish, or anathema, or a just a plain, uninformed point of view to the Ricoh GR/RX100/LX100/Fujifilm X100 crowd.


Meanwhile, the allure of the D600/610/750 cameras and the leap to FF harkens. I'm a train-and-plane nut, and all the luminaries in these arenas shoot FF.


Anyway. I have said too much. And none of it is important, in the big scheme of things, as they say.
Oh well. LOL

Last edited by DavidSKAF3; 12-04-2014 at 12:56 PM.
12-04-2014, 06:22 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidSKAF3 Quote
And none of it important, in the big scheme of things, as they say.
That's true.

Today, no one cares which camera model and brand took any of our photos, as long as the photo looks good and/or means something. Once we die, people will care even less.
12-04-2014, 08:26 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Today, no one cares which camera model and brand took any of our photos, as long as the photo looks good and/or means something. Once we die, people will care even less.
So true! Still, I continue to see all these FF posts where a FF camera is going to "make me a Pro"! In the OP post, he states that....
QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
I love Pentax for the tank body & size & primes ,but will find it hard to be satisfied with landscapes or wildlife shots,once I use the FF system, and the amount of detail there is, and low light capabilities.
I took the liberty to look at his 3-4 shots posted in his Gallery/Album and can't honestly see where he has utilized the potential of his K511 and Pentax gear in general. Not picking on him, but if he thinks a FF is going to jump out there and do for him what his current gear isn't, I am afraid he is going to be in for a costly disappointment.

I see this more often than not....."if only I had a FF I could shoot wonderful photos!". That may be true for a tiny select group of shooters, but for the majority it won't hold water. Do a little research on your own.....go look at the photos of those that were longing for a FF to get those "wonderful shots" and then look at the shots they got when they did get their FF. See any difference? In most cases I have studied...not much, if any...and some actually got worse!

Again, my apology to the OP for using him as an example, I am certainly not a skilled shooter or expert photographer in any respect, and I know it. It's why I am mostly a Toy Camera shooter and never entertain the idea that a FF camera could possibly change that.

Regards!
12-04-2014, 11:50 AM   #15
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The 810 is a great camera that is waaaay more money than a K3 or K5 and the lenses are also quite pricey. There is no denying this camera its due. I have utmost respect for the camera - but I would gladly shoot it against the 645z - and I suspect they would both do very well. The d810 would smoke the 645z on high speed continuous frame performance - the 645z would likely deliver more detailed shots. It's a bit hard to say which I would rather have if I had the choice. But it is clear to me that the Pentax APS bodies are some of the best for that sensor size.

The FF sensor on the 810 is undeniably able to outperform the K5 and K5ii and K3... no other truth need be said. But as pointed out the differences are not necessarily those that make it worth switching platforms depending your shooting style.
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