[Winder]

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The A7 II is so much better to hold than the A7 was. The shutter button is where it should be now and the front dial is easier to use. It's kind of interesting that, as the mirrorless manufacturers listen to feedback and refine their advanced models, they are becoming more and more DSLR-like in shape and size. I think it lends weight to idea that DSLRs have attained a kind of optimal design for the lens sizes they have. In fact the size and hold of the A7 II is not far from a DSLR like the K-5 now, but that isn't really a fair comparison because it doesn't take into account the bigger sensor in the A7 series.

Yes. Ergonomics was probably the single biggest reason I didn't buy the A7r earlier last year. The gripof the A7m2 is still not as good as the K-3, but it is very good for a MILC.

---------- Post added 01-17-15 at 09:37 AM ----------

New Sony A7II review by Engadget. Says…”It’s worth every penny.” | sonyalpharumors

[tuco]

... It's kind of interesting that, as the mirrorless manufacturers listen to feedback and refine their advanced models, they are becoming more and more DSLR-like in shape and size....

I've noticed that too. In fact I believe that most will soon look like a DSLR but with a shorter registration distance. Mirrorless lenses can still be large when you get into telephoto zooms where a big camera grip can be handy have.

[Winder]

I've noticed that too. In fact I believe that most will soon look like a DSLR but with a shorter registration distance. Mirrorless lenses can still be large when you get into telephoto zooms where a big camera grip can be handy have.

Mirrorless or not, you are still designing for a FF image circle with the A7m2 line. The new 90mm F/2.8 macro with OIS looks pretty large. Hopefully the 85mm F/1.8 or F/2 will be more compact since it wont have to focus so close or have OIS built in.

I think the A9 will look a lot like an A99 (in size) when it comes out. Big grip for high capacity batteries to handle the processing power needed for a high performance mirrorless.

[philbaum]

Mirrorless or not, you are still designing for a FF image circle with the A7m2 line. The new 90mm F/2.8 macro with OIS looks pretty large. Hopefully the 85mm F/1.8 or F/2 will be more compact since it wont have to focus so close or have OIS built in.

I think the A9 will look a lot like an A99 (in size) when it comes out. Big grip for high capacity batteries to handle the processing power needed for a high performance mirrorless.

Yeah, but...but... to me the concept is that one has a lightweight smallish body, and when you equip it with shorter lenses, the whole combo is fairly compact. Pocketable - no. But if you need to mount a large tele lens - infrequently - you can still operate it by carrying the weight of the large lens in one's left hand. I don't use large lenses alot and could care less about birding.

Now some weights:

Pentax K3 - about 800 gms body weight IIRC
DA 50-135 f2.8 765 gms

Sony A7, A7R, A7S about 500gms

Sony A7II about 600 gms (apparently the body mount needed upgrading to full metal mount)
70-200 F4 840gms

Total K3 plus 50-135 equals 1565 gms

Total A7II plus 70-200 equals 1440 gms

Its remarkable how close those 2 combos are to each other. Taking into account that the A7II is FF and the K3 is APS, the 2 lenses are equivalent to each other in size of image to be produced. The A7II has one stop advantage in high ISO performance.

The Sony camera, although advertised as WR, does not have the gasketed enclosure that the Pentax does - Advantage Pentax
The Pentax camera overall is probably more durable than the Sony with a better handheld than Sony - i don't have a A7II. Some operating functions are better on the Pentax or completely non-existent on the A7II. Example - One can do one-click multiple bracketing shots on the K3 for purposes of HDR - still can't do that on any of the A7 models. Also can't combine 2 sec delays on a tripod with bracketing options. Many useful modes only produce jpgs, not RAW.

According to a recent BCN Japanese report - Ricoh has 4.5% of the DSLR market. Clearly, Ricoh needs to get into the FF models. Here's how the 2 cameras compare in size - i've compared them in a cafe to each other - the Sony camera is a bit smaller in all dimensions than the Pentax K3:

http://camerasize.com/compare/#485,579

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Last edited by philbaum; 01-17-2015 at 12:44 PM.

[mrNewt]

One can do one-click multiple bracketing shots on the K3 for purposes of HDR

What do you mean by this? A7II has bracketing option. Is quite easy. Fn > Drive mode > select bracketing mode. You can assign the Drive mode to a button that you wish as well so you get to bracketing 2 steps faster.
Once you get in the drive mode for bracketing, you have 2 options - one for continuous bracketing, where you hold down the button and it takes all 3 at once or single option where you take them one at the time. Each option gives you from 0.3 to 3 on both "negative and positive".

[osv]

DA 50-135 f2.8 765 gms

70-200 F4 840gms

the sony zoom has oss and a tripod mount, while the pentax lens is not stabilized? if so, it's not a fair weight comparison... both bodies have ibis, so that's not a factor.

[philbaum]

What do you mean by this? A7II has bracketing option. Is quite easy. Fn > Drive mode > select bracketing mode. You can assign the Drive mode to a button that you wish as well so you get to bracketing 2 steps faster.
Once you get in the drive mode for bracketing, you have 2 options - one for continuous bracketing, where you hold down the button and it takes all 3 at once or single option where you take them one at the time. Each option gives you from 0.3 to 3 on both "negative and positive".

Holding down the shutter for the extended period of the bracketing process puts a force on the camera and will/can affect IQ. Cable, time delays, IR and radio triggers, and other devices have been used for many years to help keep photographer's hands off the camera during a tripod shoot. It astonishes me that the Sony would be programmed in such a way. Its something that a programmer would do, not an experienced photographer, IMO.

Especially at night, extended bracketing exposures can take a fair amount of time. I recently did a small pano of 7 positions and 3 bracketed exposures at each position. On the K3, it was click it, and then think about other details while the camera went off and finished the shooting for that position. With the Sony A series, one apparently would be trapped next to the camera holding the camera for the full time. Unless one can get a cable with programming for the Sony, and i think such a cable is available, but haven't verified it.

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Last edited by philbaum; 01-17-2015 at 11:29 PM.

[yusuf]

I currently have A7 & A7r, I plan to sell one of them and get this once it's available locally.

[philbaum]

the sony zoom has oss and a tripod mount, while the pentax lens is not stabilized? if so, it's not a fair weight comparison... both bodies have ibis, so that's not a factor.

I didn't mean anything negative by the comparison for either camera. I suspect that the K3 is a bit better built and will take more abuse. Plus the K3 has those 73 seals and that takes more material to provide for, IMO. Also, K3 is an older camera. I was more surprised that they were closer together in total weight. I'll do it for Nikon:

Nikon 750 body: 750gms (includes battery)

70-200 F4 ED VR 850gm

Nikon total weight: 1600gms includes battery
for ref:

Total K3 plus 50-135 equals 1565 gms inc battery

Total A7II plus 70-200 equals 1440 gms inc. battery

Of course Pentax is the only APS camera in the 3 combos above, but i believe they could fit a FF sensor into the existing K3 body for that weight and size, or come close to doing it. All 3 are not that far apart; Sony did come out first in the foot race :-) but not by much.

I guess its obvious when camera/lens design teams start out to create something, they probably know exactly what their competition is doing and will establish their own targets.

[mrNewt]

Holding down the shutter for the extended period of the bracketing process puts a force on the camera and will/can affect IQ. Cable, time delays, IR and radio triggers, and other devices have been used for many years to help keep photographer's hands off the camera during a tripod shoot. It astonishes me that the Sony would be programmed in such a way. Its something that a programmer would do, not an experienced photographer, IMO.

Especially at night, extended bracketing exposures can take a fair amount of time. I recently did a small pano of 7 positions and 3 bracketed exposures at each position. On the K3, it was click it, and then think about other details while the camera went off and finished the shooting for that position. With the Sony A series, one apparently would be trapped next to the camera holding the camera for the full time. Unless one can get a cable with programming for the Sony, and i think such a cable is available, but haven't verified it.

Oh that? Sorry I misunderstood you there.

I know about the long time exposure issues when holding the shutter down, but I believe, for the A7 you can actually purchase an extra cable release that you plug to your camera and use it that way. No? I thought I saw a few youtube reviews for something similar. And these cable releases are fairly inexpensive to buy. I remember seeing a video for the a7 (not m2) where someone purchased a third party grip that came with a cable release.

Yes, from what I can see there is no click once and forget about it option. But there are inexpensive ways around it if you really want to make it work

Doing a quick search on ebay:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Shutter-Release-Remote-Cord-8pcs-Cable-For-SONY-Alpha...item5b0b3ae491

---------- Post added 01-18-15 at 09:57 AM ----------

but i believe they could fit a FF sensor into the existing K3 body for that weight and size

It won't as far as I know.
When they put the FF inside, they will need to increase the size of the mirror and viewfinder to accommodate for the larger sensor - also the housing will have to increase its size as well. And I also assume the IBIS system will be slightly larger as well. This will make for a little larger body most probably. Don't know about the weight though...

[mrNewt]

And so it begins... I got my first adapter, m39










Pictures proudly brought to you by Pentax MX-1... ( they turned out a little too bright, but they are still OK... I guess... )

[hinman]

Sweet, is the last lens with Industar-69 28mm f/2.8, that lens vignettes heavily on full frame. Is that the case? It is a great little inexpensive lens, very usable on aps-c and I like it for black and white.

Don't know for sure if you have a Industar 50-2 pancake with 50mm f/3.5, my copy is in m42 mount. The adapter with M39/L39 is much thinner adapter.












Industar 50-2 50mm f/3.5 in M42 mounted with Praktica/M42 to Konica AR adapter (silver), Konica AR to E adapter


In fighting with LBA and embarrassed with lens count, I have sold both Industar for cheap and move on.

The combination of Focus assist/magnify and peeking make the A7 series outstanding with manual focus lenses. Please do watch out the LBA tempting thoughts. I have tried Konica AR, Canon FD, Schneider DKL, M42, M39/L39, Yashica C/Y, Contax G, Tamron adaptall-2 and Pentax K. Among those that I've tried, the M39/L39 and DKL gives the best form factor as the adapters are small. The Contax G is great but I dislike all the available adapters with Metabones and TechArt. The best value in my trials goes to the M42 mount, especially the Takumar.

Cheers,
Hin

[mrNewt]

Nice hinman!

Yes, that 28 does vignettes a lot on the a7. I've put it on mostly for the laughs, but after I took a few quick test shoots in my room, I think I might get away using it in B&W mode and get some "artsy" street shoots. Mine came attached to a Chaica - half frame 35mm camera.

I do have that m42 50mm Industar lens as well... and a Helios 44m-4... I have no idea why I have so many 50mm lenses . Might start assigning them days of week. This my Monday lens, this is my Tuesday... oh and this is the sexy Wednesday...
Might be embarrassing but I love them all to be honest.

Currently I am saving to finally get that Jupiter 9... been craving it for many years but managed to stay away from it until now. It will probably end up as my main lens on the a7m2.

Love that Yashica! I have one of them too - you can sort of a get a glimpse of it in my avatar <<

[mrNewt]

After almost a month with this camera I have came to the conclusion that I love this thing... a lot!
So much to the point that right now I don't think I want a DSLR any loner... or at least for a very long time from now on.

A few pics of the same subject taken from my tests around the house.

Sony kit lens at ISO 400 with bouncing flash in a very small room with a big mirror on the right side.

I love the eye focus option in this camera !



My extremely cheap, long forgotten but surprisingly still working Albinar 135mm 2.8 PK mount with bouncing flash from the ceiling.

I forgot how good this lens was.



And the m42 Helios... such a nice lens... shoot at 2.0, ISO 400 (should of dropped it to 200) with bouncing flash from the ceiling.




I would say about 85% of the pictures I have with this camera tends to be keepers.

From everything that I have tried so far, I am getting very hung up on m42 and m39 glass. I have a feeling I will be buying more of those while I am slowly selling some other lenses that I won't be using much.

Right now, the biggest decision that I am going through... is if I should sell the Sigma 2.8 70-200mm and get the native EF mount Sony 4 70-200mm... or keep the Sigma one since is slightly faster (but also bulkier considering the mount as well) but PK mount and use it with the adapter!? Ufff... decisions...

Anyway, I think I can say I know this camera very well and I am ready to start taking this thing outside and go crazy with it .
I have a week of vacation coming in a month and I will be in Cuba having fun with this thing

As a side note, regarding the battery, I have ordered from eBay the "EZO" battery and charger and it seems to be working just fine on the camera. Already went through a few cycles and no issues so far. It did disappointed me the first time I put it in the camera without charging it - I got an error saying that the battery is not a Sony format. But apparently this was only because the battery was depleted. After a full charge i never got the error again.

[philbaum]

After almost a month with this camera I have came to the conclusion that I love this thing... a lot!
So much to the point that right now I don't think I want a DSLR any loner... or at least for a very long time from now on.

A few pics of the same subject taken from my tests around the house.

Sony kit lens at ISO 400 with bouncing flash in a very small room with a big mirror on the right side.

I love the eye focus option in this camera !



My extremely cheap, long forgotten but surprisingly still working Albinar 135mm 2.8 PK mount with bouncing flash from the ceiling.

I forgot how good this lens was.



And the m42 Helios... such a nice lens... shoot at 2.0, ISO 400 (should of dropped it to 200) with bouncing flash from the ceiling.




I would say about 85% of the pictures I have with this camera tends to be keepers.

From everything that I have tried so far, I am getting very hung up on m42 and m39 glass. I have a feeling I will be buying more of those while I am slowly selling some other lenses that I won't be using much.

Right now, the biggest decision that I am going through... is if I should sell the Sigma 2.8 70-200mm and get the native EF mount Sony 4 70-200mm... or keep the Sigma one since is slightly faster (but also bulkier considering the mount as well) but PK mount and use it with the adapter!? Ufff... decisions...

Great job with the pics. Have a friend with this camera, and he showed me pic from his new Tamron 150-600 F4-F5.6. Only cost him $1069. believe its A mount though so he must have used an adapter. The pic was taken at F8 iso 200 at 600mm and was really clear - handheld. So i guess the determining factor would be whether the 600mm FL is desired. Nice to have options.