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01-17-2015, 05:03 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I see no problem with Nikon charging for adding new features to their cameras.
But they are hardware vendors. Features should, as much as possible, be included at design stage and be available to customers out of the box, not turned on [or off?] for a price.

What Nikon is trying to do reminds me of an old tale about how IBM would sometimes do mainframe upgrades. In the days when computer rooms were the equivalent of voodoo temples, IBM would sell customers a $200,000 upgrade to their mainframes which they presented as a very complex and sophisticated operation, but which actually involved an IBM on-site technician merely flicking a switch to turn on extra hardware that was already present in the installed computer. Needless to say, (if they ever realized what was actually going on) customers were not impressed by such sharp practices.

01-17-2015, 05:15 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
One of the reasons for Apple's recent surge in Mac sales has been the free OS upgrades they've offered. Now, I'm not suggesting that Nikon or any other camera maker (except perhaps for Fuji) is in Apple's happy position, financially, and I'm also acutely aware that nothing is actually free of payment somewhere, but it's the perception that matters, particularly when new features are added for zero incremental cost to the user.

New features are also regularly added to commercial software, at no extra charge, up until a major re-write or revision occurs, so why should it be any different for cameras? Camera-makers are actually more like the Apple model than stand-alone software companies, in that the hardware sales can subsidise the software provided, and its upgrades.
Apple's surges are generally driven by either a new OS iteration or new models with dramatic improvements. A couple years ago, when Apple made only slight upgrades to the Mac line, sales dropped significantly, and the "Tim Cook doesn't have the mojo" talk really took off.

"...and I'm also acutely aware that nothing is actually free of payment somewhere..." That's the key right there, IMO. Do you want to pay for the "enhancement implementation team" upfront, or when new features are released?

Updating software is different than updating a camera. If a software patch doesn't work well, the company can push out a fix pretty quickly. If a camera firmware update doesn't work well, the camera is likely bricked... at least the way most camera software is currently implemented. I suppose when we reach the seemingly inevitable collision between camera and mobile OS, enhancements and new features will be rolled out more frequently.

---------- Post added 01-17-15 at 07:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But they are hardware vendors. Features should, as much as possible, be included at design stage and be available to customers out of the box, not turned on [or off?] for a price.
I agree. But if a company comes up with a new idea after the model is released, I sure as hell appreciate the company following through with the idea instead of saying, "let's wait until the next model". I mean, if I buy a camera, should I have an expectation that the manufacturer will strive to improve it, other than fixing bugs?

I bet there's a few grumpy old photogs who would pay a nominal fee to have "superfluous" features disabled on their cameras!

QuoteQuote:
In the days when computer rooms were the equivalent of voodoo temples, IBM would sell customers a $200,000 upgrade to their mainframes which they presented as a very complex and sophisticated operation, but which actually involved an IBM on-site technician merely flicking a switch to turn on extra hardware that was already present in the installed computer. Needless to say, (if they ever realized what was actually going on) customers were not impressed by such sharp practices.
These days, we have a similar fiasco with CPU's. Many top-of-the-line CPU's are deliberately crippled in order to fill lower SKU's.
01-17-2015, 09:11 PM   #18
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QuoteQuote:
I agree. But if a company comes up with a new idea after the model is released, I sure as hell appreciate the company following through with the idea instead of saying, "let's wait until the next model". I mean, if I buy a camera, should I have an expectation that the manufacturer will strive to improve it, other than fixing bugs?
I agree with you and thats what ive been saying all along.. that even if these updates do cost something it will be much, much less than the cost of buying a new camera. And i mean, plus, i never understood why nikon left the live histogram out of the d600. Its a pro camera technically, we need our exposure tools!
01-18-2015, 03:19 AM   #19
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Why does Nikon have to have such tiny Asian models holding their cameras? If this is their target demographic - I'm sorry Nikon, but your marketing department is more clueless than pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Nikon offering a two-tier (free + paid) firmware upgrade policy would be stupid and customer un-friendly.
QuoteOriginally posted by jawsy Quote
At the end of the day Nikon have to make money, which means that if the upgrades result in a decline in new DSLR sales, the consumer has to pay for the difference. If Ricoh did this I would not be happy.
+1
Both of you are right on the money( so to speak)


Last edited by Digitalis; 01-19-2015 at 12:18 AM.
01-19-2015, 04:42 PM   #20
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QuoteQuote:
Why does Nikon have to have such tiny Asian models holding their cameras? If this is their target demographic - I'm sorry Nikon, but your marketing department is more clueless than pentax.
Yes, thats why they are 25% of the camera market last time i checked. IMO, this is says great thing about marketing. They are giving people an even bigger reason to go nikon becase this has opened the door for many more future updates. We can expect many more exciting things from nikon here i think. They are adding a ton of value to their lineup here. People always complain that x company left y feature to get you to pay for the next release and now that nikon are actually doing the opposite of that. Wait, so you think that the models they use to show off their new products are their target audience..? I cant...

QuoteQuote:
At the end of the day Nikon have to make money, which means that if the upgrades result in a decline in new DSLR sales, the consumer has to pay for the difference. If Ricoh did this I would not be happy.
Im scratching my head.. metaphorically anyway here.. Would you rather pay for a new camera, dude? They are offering a lot here for a very little. We have zero concrete evidence that says they will charge for it. How do you know it wont in fact be free? I love how everyone keeps repeating that they will charge for it even though that at this point, that is pretty much nothing to support that. You wouldn't be happy if ricoh did it... why?
01-19-2015, 05:47 PM   #21
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Pentax rarely adds features through a firmware update. I wouldn't mind a paid update if the price is reasonable and the additional features worth it. I wouldn't like a camera that is intentionally limited, but if they, after the camera is launched decide to add new features and work on it, I'm fine.

A prime example is the Samsung NX1 update. It is massive, though I would not be surprised if those have been in the works for a long time and they just couldn't finish them in time. But those updates would be worth some money, if they came say in a year and renew the camera.

As for paying to deactivate features... That should be possible free of charge. What is so hard about a menu item that turns off video and reassigns the buttons, mode dial item etc.?
01-21-2015, 12:49 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Im scratching my head.. metaphorically anyway here.. Would you rather pay for a new camera, dude? They are offering a lot here for a very little. We have zero concrete evidence that says they will charge for it. How do you know it wont in fact be free? I love how everyone keeps repeating that they will charge for it even though that at this point, that is pretty much nothing to support that. You wouldn't be happy if ricoh did it... why?
The thread (and my post) presumes that they will charge, that's the direction the discussion has been going. If that's not the case there's not much to talk about really. So with that in mind, the point I'm making is that no product supplier does anything for nothing. If you perceive a benefit being the deferral of a new purchase, then the wider market will also. That inevitably leads to new body sales decline in the long term and thus the shortfall has to be made up by countering whatever caused the fall; the pay-for-upgrade concept in this case. If the upgrades are not good enough to offer the fringe benefit of new body deferral, they should be offered for free.

Last edited by jawsy; 01-21-2015 at 02:35 AM.
01-21-2015, 11:59 AM   #23
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There was suppoosed be an announcement the other day but it was presumably delayed by the service advistory that was issued at around the same time. Im hoping for an announcement today! I think you all will be surprised and maybe possibly jealous when nikon gives this up for free! You guys are gonna wish you had a nikon ff! I think this is nikons answer to the cheap ff sony is rolling out.

01-21-2015, 02:09 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I think you all will be surprised and maybe possibly jealous
LOL. Let's just wait and see - if anything turns up at all.
01-21-2015, 02:21 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
You guys are gonna wish you had a nikon ff! I think this is nikons answer to the cheap ff sony is rolling out.
You may be right on the second point, but I reckon the majority of those here who were going to buy a Nikon have already done so. Don't get me wrong (people without a sense of humour often do), it's not so much that I dislike Nikons (I don't – some of my best friends own them ) but they're a bit like Porsches: lovely pieces of work, but would you want to be associated with some of the owners?

No comments about my avatar, thank you…
01-22-2015, 05:01 PM   #26
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hehe yeah i am actually inclined to agree, rawr. The announcement was supposed to happen on the 19th but i think it will be here any day now.
01-24-2015, 07:48 AM   #27
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The upcoming 300 f4 is a lot bigger news than this. That lens looks very tempting.
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