Nikon bringing new features to its full frame lineup with an exciting update

neostyles · 01-09-2015, 06:45 PM

Nikon Rumors

I think they are finally adding a live view histogram. Yeeeeee

Bart · 01-10-2015, 05:11 AM

Having to pay for firmware upgrades does not strike me as interesting news.

neostyles · 01-10-2015, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Bart

Having to pay for firmware upgrades does not strike me as interesting news.

That was only a rumor... Point is look at how many features nikon is bringing where you might otherwise have to pay for a new camera!

Rupert · 01-10-2015, 12:34 PM

Sounds like they are taking a page from the Fuji play book?

Bart · 01-10-2015, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by neostyles

That was only a rumor... Point is look at how many features nikon is bringing where you might otherwise have to pay for a new camera!

That is not how I see it.
I see that from now on, Nikon plans to charge for any firmware upgrade that is more than fixing a bug.

I fail to see what is positive about that.

neostyles · 01-10-2015, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Bart

That is not how I see it.
I see that from now on, Nikon plans to charge for any firmware upgrade that is more than fixing a bug.

I fail to see what is positive about that.

Because they are offering big, exciting changes for a cost (if they do charge for it) which is much less than the cost of a new camera. Come on really? When was the last time you saw firmware that was anything but that.. fixing bugs?

Bart · 01-10-2015, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by neostyles

... When was the last time you saw firmware that was anything but that.. fixing bugs?

Seriously?

neostyles · 01-10-2015, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Bart

Seriously?

uhm yeah, dude. I assumed it was common knowledge that firmware is manly dedicated towards bug fixes and improvements of the minor variety. At the most, some firemware may add comparability for a new type of memory card or a lens, but when was the last time you saw firmware that added an electronic front curtain shutter.

If they are charging, its more than worth it.

This is like picking up an entirely new camera.

Rupert · 01-10-2015, 04:12 PM

Maybe with some, but Fuji firmware is full of improvements to the X line of cameras, not just fixes. They even go back several years to add function to older cameras like the X100...and it's free! When was the last time Nikon did that? I think all of them can do better, but from what I see Fuji leads the way.

Regards!

Homo_erectus · 01-10-2015, 04:12 PM

Below is pretty much a stream of consciousness spew of my thoughts on this.

It'll depend on how they actually implement charging for firmware. What sort of features are available and how much the costs are.

If they are going to be shipping a similar product line as today but with a firmware that makes the camera a glorified point-and-shoot or cell phone cameras and are then expecting people to buy "advanced" camera features like M mode, Auto ISO or Exposure Bracketing via firmware they might just put themselves out of business.

On the other hand, it could allow you to get a camera that has only the specific features that you actually use. Or it could allow you to buy a body that you like and then unlock features that you find you want as time goes on, potentially extending the life span of the body and letting it "grow" with you. That could be especially nice for people that are just starting out with photography. They could also then offer a body with every firmware option already installed and a "life time" free subscription to new firmwares and that one would cost like a liver and a kidney plus your first born.

This could be all about an even more finely grained market segmentation than they already have.

It could also be that they are planning on selling completely non-functional things like new color schemes, weird filters, effects for video and what not. In online games people pay hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars for entirely decorative in game items. Maybe Nikon has decided they want to get a piece of the disposable income of that sort of person.

There's a serious potential for piracy here too. If the unlocking system isn't more or less bulletproof it will be cracked and Nikon could end up basically giving away flagship model features to anyone with a compatible body and the willingness to load a hacked firmware.

People really object to being sold items that have physical capabilities that they have to pay to "unlock". I'm thinking of the day one DLC phenomenon in video games where an additional feature or part of the game is on the physical disc that the consumer bought but must be "purchased" as "Downloadable Content" before it can be accessed. There's been a ton of bad blood over this sort of thing in the gaming industry and Nikon is walking into a potential minefield doing this.

There's no indication that this next firmware will be charged for however and the list of features added for free sure looks fairly nice to me.

rawr · 01-16-2015, 04:15 PM - **1 Like**

Nikon offering a two-tier (free + paid) firmware upgrade policy would be stupid and customer un-friendly.

Other brands like Fuji and Ricoh (eg with the GR and GXR) and even Pentax (eg the addition of Diffraction Correction to the K-3 via firmware) have a long history of new feature-enabling firmware updates, sometimes adding enhanced features to cameras that are a few years old and out of production. It's nothing new. Even Sony has done stuff to enable their NEX hardware (like the shutter) to do new tricks.

**luftfluss** · 01-17-2015, 03:16 PM

I see no problem with Nikon charging for adding new features to their cameras. An additional revenue stream might actually spur them to update older models, as opposed to simply releasing a new updated body.

I'd certainly pay to add better focus peaking on my K-01.

It would be kinda funny - in a watching a trainwreck sorta way - to see people brick their cameras trying to "unlock" additional features without buying the premium firmware update.

@ Neostyles: before making sweeping statements about what other brands do, it would be wise to actually check out what the other brands do. Fuji just added a whole slew of additional capabilities to the X-T1 via firmware, and some of those new features have gone downstream to other Fuji cameras.

neostyles · 01-17-2015, 03:28 PM

Do we even know that nikon will be charging for it? I think nikon realizes that the emergence of the mirrorless cameras has shaken things up. Sony is eating up a large part of the market share. And then there is also magic lantern which added a whole shit load of features for free. So, I wouldnt be surpirsed at all if these were free.

**RobA_Oz** · 01-17-2015, 03:33 PM

One of the reasons for Apple's recent surge in Mac sales has been the free OS upgrades they've offered. Now, I'm not suggesting that Nikon or any other camera maker (except perhaps for Fuji) is in Apple's happy position, financially, and I'm also acutely aware that nothing is actually free of payment somewhere, but it's the perception that matters, particularly when new features are added for zero incremental cost to the user.

New features are also regularly added to commercial software, at no extra charge, up until a major re-write or revision occurs, so why should it be any different for cameras? Camera-makers are actually more like the Apple model than stand-alone software companies, in that the hardware sales can subsidise the software provided, and its upgrades.

jawsy · 01-17-2015, 04:26 PM

Assuming the pay-for-firmware eventuates, I tend to agree with those who would counsel Nikon to tread with caution. There are plenty of examples throughout history of this type of marketing initiative; some worked, others failed dismally. Nikon took a beating with it's forced response to the D600 issue and you can only imagine that to those most affected, even thinking Nikon were going down this path wouldn't go down well. Consumers start to question their own brand loyalty when they perceive they're being taken for granted.

The underlying presumption is actually a little bit arrogant. It's not about attracting new market share, but rather exploiting the share you have and assuming you won't lose it (probably by weighing up the cost to the consumer of changing systems.) At the end of the day Nikon have to make money, which means that if the upgrades result in a decline in new DSLR sales, the consumer has to pay for the difference.

If Ricoh did this I would not be happy.

01-09-2015, 06:45 PM	#1
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445	Nikon bringing new features to its full frame lineup with an exciting update Nikon Rumors I think they are finally adding a live view histogram. Yeeeeee

01-10-2015, 02:53 PM	#8
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bart Seriously? uhm yeah, dude. I assumed it was common knowledge that firmware is manly dedicated towards bug fixes and improvements of the minor variety. At the most, some firemware may add comparability for a new type of memory card or a lens, but when was the last time you saw firmware that added an electronic front curtain shutter. If they are charging, its more than worth it. This is like picking up an entirely new camera. Last edited by neostyles; 01-10-2015 at 03:30 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why Pentax SHOULD make a full frame, an answer to the link on homepage	cyberjunkie	Pentax Full Frame	302	02-01-2015 07:39 PM
Pentax has the best Full Frame Camera its a 645Z	chrissmithy	Pentax Full Frame	22	08-23-2014 07:05 AM
From Full-Frame Sony... to Pentax... to Full-Frame Canon	Mr_Canuck	Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands	42	01-21-2014 12:50 AM
New Nikon DF Full Frame	TaxMan	Photographic Industry and Professionals	26	10-29-2013 02:22 PM
Sony has plans of bringing out a full-frame mirrorless camera system.	2her0ck	Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands	5	09-06-2013 06:09 AM

01-10-2015, 05:11 AM	#2
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	Having to pay for firmware upgrades does not strike me as interesting news.

01-10-2015, 12:03 PM	#3
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bart Having to pay for firmware upgrades does not strike me as interesting news. That was only a rumor... Point is look at how many features nikon is bringing where you might otherwise have to pay for a new camera!

01-10-2015, 12:34 PM	#4
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Sounds like they are taking a page from the Fuji play book?

01-10-2015, 12:38 PM	#5
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	Originally posted by neostyles That was only a rumor... Point is look at how many features nikon is bringing where you might otherwise have to pay for a new camera! That is not how I see it. I see that from now on, Nikon plans to charge for any firmware upgrade that is more than fixing a bug. I fail to see what is positive about that.

01-10-2015, 01:28 PM	#6
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bart That is not how I see it. I see that from now on, Nikon plans to charge for any firmware upgrade that is more than fixing a bug. I fail to see what is positive about that. Because they are offering big, exciting changes for a cost (if they do charge for it) which is much less than the cost of a new camera. Come on really? When was the last time you saw firmware that was anything but that.. fixing bugs?

01-10-2015, 01:39 PM	#7
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	Originally posted by neostyles ... When was the last time you saw firmware that was anything but that.. fixing bugs? Seriously?

01-10-2015, 04:12 PM	#9
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Maybe with some, but Fuji firmware is full of improvements to the X line of cameras, not just fixes. They even go back several years to add function to older cameras like the X100...and it's free! When was the last time Nikon did that? I think all of them can do better, but from what I see Fuji leads the way. Regards!

01-10-2015, 04:12 PM	#10
Homo_erectus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 410	Below is pretty much a stream of consciousness spew of my thoughts on this. It'll depend on how they actually implement charging for firmware. What sort of features are available and how much the costs are. If they are going to be shipping a similar product line as today but with a firmware that makes the camera a glorified point-and-shoot or cell phone cameras and are then expecting people to buy "advanced" camera features like M mode, Auto ISO or Exposure Bracketing via firmware they might just put themselves out of business. On the other hand, it could allow you to get a camera that has only the specific features that you actually use. Or it could allow you to buy a body that you like and then unlock features that you find you want as time goes on, potentially extending the life span of the body and letting it "grow" with you. That could be especially nice for people that are just starting out with photography. They could also then offer a body with every firmware option already installed and a "life time" free subscription to new firmwares and that one would cost like a liver and a kidney plus your first born. This could be all about an even more finely grained market segmentation than they already have. It could also be that they are planning on selling completely non-functional things like new color schemes, weird filters, effects for video and what not. In online games people pay hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars for entirely decorative in game items. Maybe Nikon has decided they want to get a piece of the disposable income of that sort of person. There's a serious potential for piracy here too. If the unlocking system isn't more or less bulletproof it will be cracked and Nikon could end up basically giving away flagship model features to anyone with a compatible body and the willingness to load a hacked firmware. People really object to being sold items that have physical capabilities that they have to pay to "unlock". I'm thinking of the day one DLC phenomenon in video games where an additional feature or part of the game is on the physical disc that the consumer bought but must be "purchased" as "Downloadable Content" before it can be accessed. There's been a ton of bad blood over this sort of thing in the gaming industry and Nikon is walking into a potential minefield doing this. There's no indication that this next firmware will be charged for however and the list of features added for free sure looks fairly nice to me.

01-16-2015, 04:15 PM - 1 Like	#11
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Nikon offering a two-tier (free + paid) firmware upgrade policy would be stupid and customer un-friendly. Other brands like Fuji and Ricoh (eg with the GR and GXR) and even Pentax (eg the addition of Diffraction Correction to the K-3 via firmware) have a long history of new feature-enabling firmware updates, sometimes adding enhanced features to cameras that are a few years old and out of production. It's nothing new. Even Sony has done stuff to enable their NEX hardware (like the shutter) to do new tricks.

01-17-2015, 03:16 PM	#12
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	I see no problem with Nikon charging for adding new features to their cameras. An additional revenue stream might actually spur them to update older models, as opposed to simply releasing a new updated body. I'd certainly pay to add better focus peaking on my K-01. It would be kinda funny - in a watching a trainwreck sorta way - to see people brick their cameras trying to "unlock" additional features without buying the premium firmware update. @ Neostyles: before making sweeping statements about what other brands do, it would be wise to actually check out what the other brands do. Fuji just added a whole slew of additional capabilities to the X-T1 via firmware, and some of those new features have gone downstream to other Fuji cameras.

01-17-2015, 03:28 PM	#13
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445 Original Poster	Do we even know that nikon will be charging for it? I think nikon realizes that the emergence of the mirrorless cameras has shaken things up. Sony is eating up a large part of the market share. And then there is also magic lantern which added a whole shit load of features for free. So, I wouldnt be surpirsed at all if these were free.

01-17-2015, 03:33 PM	#14
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	One of the reasons for Apple's recent surge in Mac sales has been the free OS upgrades they've offered. Now, I'm not suggesting that Nikon or any other camera maker (except perhaps for Fuji) is in Apple's happy position, financially, and I'm also acutely aware that nothing is actually free of payment somewhere, but it's the perception that matters, particularly when new features are added for zero incremental cost to the user. New features are also regularly added to commercial software, at no extra charge, up until a major re-write or revision occurs, so why should it be any different for cameras? Camera-makers are actually more like the Apple model than stand-alone software companies, in that the hardware sales can subsidise the software provided, and its upgrades.

01-17-2015, 04:26 PM	#15
jawsy Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 422	Assuming the pay-for-firmware eventuates, I tend to agree with those who would counsel Nikon to tread with caution. There are plenty of examples throughout history of this type of marketing initiative; some worked, others failed dismally. Nikon took a beating with it's forced response to the D600 issue and you can only imagine that to those most affected, even thinking Nikon were going down this path wouldn't go down well. Consumers start to question their own brand loyalty when they perceive they're being taken for granted. The underlying presumption is actually a little bit arrogant. It's not about attracting new market share, but rather exploiting the share you have and assuming you won't lose it (probably by weighing up the cost to the consumer of changing systems.) At the end of the day Nikon have to make money, which means that if the upgrades result in a decline in new DSLR sales, the consumer has to pay for the difference. If Ricoh did this I would not be happy.