[kadajawi]

There are people on this forum who haven't upgraded to the K-3 and it's understandable, Cali.

For them, the higher resolution, better AF and other features weren't worth the extra cost. They believe the K5 has better very low light performance, for instance, which is not measured by DXO's Sports definition.

The NX1 is *much* newer, much more expensive than either, and not a lot smaller to be honest - it's no A6000.

Doesn't the NX1 proof that mirrorless cameras don't have to be fiddly small toy cameras? They can be serious, with all the controls and buttons and ergonomics that make DSLR cameras so great.

Eye level shooting is basically a bad idea. I would recommend using it only for people who know what they are doing, I mean novices should not use it.
It can be useful only for telephoto and reportage, and we all know mirrorless, despite all recent progress, are still not good enough for these tasks.
So, why bother for useless EVF which only increases price, size and power consumption? Pay to make your photos worse?

Why? Why is it a bad idea? You can see when it is bright outside (try that with the regular LCD/OLED screen...! At best you can barely guess what will be on the photo, but properly composing it? No way). You hold the camera in a much more stable way. etc. Also the NX1 is really not aimed at novices. It is aimed at K-3 and above cameras... even comparing the K-3 to it seems unfair to the K-3. It is a professional camera, that happens to be mirrorless. A smaller screen should also use less power.

EVF is a must have, IMHO. Not just for telephoto.

Btw., from what i heard the AF performance was greatly improved in newer firmware versions...

[audiobomber]

Also the NX1 is really not aimed at novices. It is aimed at K-3 and above cameras... even comparing the K-3 to it seems unfair to the K-3. It is a professional camera, that happens to be mirrorless.

EVF is a must have, IMHO.

What are you talking about? The NX1 has nothing over the K-3 as a still camera, and in case you haven't noticed, a huge majority of professionals use an OVF.

[osv]

What are you talking about? The NX1 has nothing over the K-3 as a still camera, and in case you haven't noticed, a huge majority of professionals use an OVF.

a huge majority of professionals used to shoot with film.

[kadajawi]

What are you talking about? The NX1 has nothing over the K-3 as a still camera, and in case you haven't noticed, a huge majority of professionals use an OVF.

Resolution. Speed. A viewfinder that is an accurate-ish representation of the final result. AF points that are all over the frame, instead of only some center points.

And then the video side...

[audiobomber]

Resolution. Speed. A viewfinder that is an accurate-ish representation of the final result. AF points that are all over the frame, instead of only some center points.

And then the video side...

• Sorry, sharpness of 28mp with a blur filter does not trump 24mp with no blur filter.
• Yes, the NX1 has higher continuous burst. I have 11fps on my a6000, but it's too much. I use 6-8 only. That is not an essential feature at all, and many pro bodies can't match the K-3's 8fps.
• I already disputed your claim that an EVF is more professional. They have their advantages and their downsides too. If we're talking about pro features, then the gold standard is OVF. Personally, I find the EVF slide show unusable for action shooting.
• Once again, if we're talking about AF points all over the frame, it is not a pro feature. Is the 645Z not a pro body? Saying that the K-3 only has a "few center points" clearly shows your bias.

Nikon confirms the 51 AF points in the D750 are narrower compared to the D810 | Nikon Rumors

Clearly your statement that "comparing the K-3 to it seems unfair to the K-3" is pure nonsense. They are direct competitors. The NX1 has a few advantages, mostly video, the K-3 has features the Samsung doesn't. The biggies for me are available lenses, IBIS, low-light AF and accessories. Pentax is a mature system, Samsung has large holes in the lens lineup, and scary pricing vs. the DSLR competition.

[neostyles]

Most mirrorless cameras (the NX1) feature much better frame coverage. This is lightyears better than the k3
http://www.lightandmatter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/samsung-nx1-viewfinder-af-coverage.jpg

An EVF is hardly a slide show either dude. This may have been true a few years ago but they have gotten much better. Modern EVFs are smoother than a pickup artist. They arguably are much better suited to pros than an optical view finder. With an evf you know exactly what the shot is going to look like. It takes alot of the guesswork out of the equation. You also have full access to your menus in the evf, atleast in the sony alpha systems, which is of a huge use to pros. The NX1 is just newer technology.

[audiobomber]

Most mirrorless cameras (the NX1) feature much better frame coverage. This is lightyears better than the k3
http://www.lightandmatter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/samsung-nx1-viewfinder-af-coverage.jpg

An EVF is hardly a slide show either dude.

They arguably are much better suited to pros than an optical view finder. With an evf you know exactly what the shot is going to look like. It takes alot of the guesswork out of the equation.

I agree that Mirrorless cameras have wider coverage across the frame. What I disagree with is the assertion that this is a professional feature. Most pro cameras are DSLR's, and do not have 90% coverage like a MILC. Having AF coverage like a DSLR does not disqualify the K-3 from being a pro level body. Lacking a second card slot, OTOH, is a feature that many consider a requirement for pro use, which the NX1 lacks.

An EVF that shows a preview is a great feature for noobs. I hardly think pros are guessing at exposure, or worrying about white balance, and again, it is not a feature of pro cameras, since the grand majority are using DSLR's.

You better tell the dudes at DPR that they're wrong about the slide show. Have you never shot action with an EVF? At high continuous burst rates, you can't see the subject, all you see is the last image the camera took. It's hopeless for tracking.

"I was hoping for some live view. Instead, when shooting at the fastest frame rate you see a series of still images as you capture them, making it difficult to follow or anticipate action through the viewfinder. It's not so bad if the action is coming toward you, but it's more difficult if the action is panning across the frame."
Samsung NX1 Review: Digital Photography Review

[kadajawi]

Most pro cameras are DSLRs because most manufacturers make only DSLRs. Because the lens line up is already built up. Those are not things that will stay that way forever.

A pro needs to get things right ever single time. Even in hectic situations. Having the EVF helps. You always can forget to dial back a setting, and then get things wrong for the next 10 photos.

Maybe Samsung will fix that live feed thing... I hope so, because you are right. That behavior is useless when tracking. Just give an option. But Samsung does listen to user feedback. Maybe they have already fixed this, or will soon.

Small AF sensor coverage is ok, bigger coverage is better. And it depends on what you use it for. For tracking wide and dense coverage is useful (or for weddings perhaps, etc), for the kind of landscape or studio work a 645z sees it doesn't really matter. Also the 645z has such poor coverage because they reused the part from the K-5 or K-3... keeps down the cost. There's a reason why Hasselblad and Phase One cost more.

[clackers]

. Also the 645z has such poor coverage because they reused the part from the K-5 or K-3... keeps down the cost. There's a reason why Hasselblad and Phase One cost more.

The 645Z doesn't have better AF than the Hassy or Phase One?

[kadajawi]

The 645Z doesn't have better AF than the Hassy or Phase One?

I don't know. But they may not have off the shelf AF modules they can use in their cameras. In that case they would need to develop the module, and they can't produce as many and have to spread the development cost over fewer cameras... higher price, even if their AF isn't as good.

In any case that's not really the point.

Saying that pros don't use mirrorless cameras (as main camera at least) is pretty pointless, when so far most mirrorless cameras were meant for consumers (I'd say the only exceptions are the GH3/4 if video is a focus, the NX1 and maybe the A7 series). Thus you can't say that the benefits of those cameras are not what pros want. They might only have not made the switch yet, for various reasons, such as cameras too new on the market, lack of lens support, already having invested too much into equipment, ...

[rawr]

They might only have not made the switch yet, for various reasons, such as cameras too new on the market, lack of lens support, already having invested too much into equipment, ...

With Nikon and Canon rumoured to be making mirrorless FF bodies, the pro 'switch' to mirrorless may indeed start to happen some time soon. But Samsung or Sony may not be beneficiaries of the switch.

[clackers]

.

Saying that pros don't use mirrorless cameras (as main camera at least) is pretty pointless, when so far most mirrorless cameras were meant for consumers

I'm sure there are pros who dabble in MILC as well as iPhoneography, but unless they're being paid by a mirrorless manufacturer like Jason Lanier seems to be, I suspect they're left at home when working.

For all the hype a year ago about the NX-1 - it was quite the media darling, helped I suppose by dollars from the Samsung advertising money pit - almost no one seems to own one.

[audiobomber]

For all the hype a year ago about the NX-1 - it was quite the media darling, helped I suppose by dollars from the Samsung advertising money pit - almost no one seems to own one.

Many people expected that the BSI sensor would bypass Sony APS-C for DR and SNR, but all it did was bring Samsung in line with others.

[kadajawi]

I'm sure there are pros who dabble in MILC as well as iPhoneography, but unless they're being paid by a mirrorless manufacturer like Jason Lanier seems to be, I suspect they're left at home when working.

For all the hype a year ago about the NX-1 - it was quite the media darling, helped I suppose by dollars from the Samsung advertising money pit - almost no one seems to own one.

As I said before, there are hardly any professional mirrorless cameras on the market (apart from Leica, which I suspect are being used by some pros), and those that are have only appeared within the last year or so, with very limited lens line-ups. So it is hardly surprising that pros that have invested in the whole system for many years haven't made the switch. Even if they would rather have a mirrorless camera. On the video side that is more common since people use manual focus anyway, and the mirrorless cameras let them adapt any of their lenses.

Many people expected that the BSI sensor would bypass Sony APS-C for DR and SNR, but all it did was bring Samsung in line with others.

It allowed for higher resolution despite similar quality. Would a 28 MP Sony sensor do as well? Apart from that the full sensor readout at 240 fps is very impressive and can be used for various things, not just great video quality even in slow motion. I would expect rolling shutter to be reduced if they fully made use of it (i.e. read out the sensor as fast as possible, then let it gather light, then read as fast as possible, ...). Object recognition for tracking can be done with such a sensor too. etc.

[Christine Tham]

For all the hype a year ago about the NX-1 - it was quite the media darling, helped I suppose by dollars from the Samsung advertising money pit - almost no one seems to own one.

The problem is that Samsung manufacture mediocre products which they hype up using a massive marketing budget.

I tend to find Samsung over-sells their products based on unrealistic and inflated specs, and the actual real world experience tends to be disappointing.

And their marketing dept seems to have shady ethics - paying bloggers to write favourable reviews of their products and slamming their competitors (they were prosecuted and fined in Taiwan), cheating on benchmarks, and all the weird marketing blunders and poor behaviour ... for products that don't work (the infamous 840 EVO SSD fiasco), or loaded with crapware and bloatware (phones and computers), or never updated 6 months after purchase (again, phones and computers - they even disabled Windows Update!), and now washing machines that overheat and catch fire ...

Samsung was a media darling a few years ago, but they have fallen out of favour these days as too many consumers have been burnt.

When the NX1 was announced I said I won't even consider it until I see real world results. Now that the real world results are published, I am not surprised they are disappointing. And where are all those lenses they promised?