the NX1 get its turn

osv · 07-06-2015, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I own a K-3 and a6000. The K-3 is the superior camera, no contest.

if the k3 is so much better, why hasn't it held it's value?

a6000 launch price: $650
k3 launch price: $1300

the a6000 is much better for manual focusing use, and it'll mount any lens that's ever been made.

Originally posted by audiobomber

MILC fans always claim the big change is upon us, but the numbers never really change much. MILC is still just a corner of the market.

that's what you said about film, back when digital hit the scene, and look how that turned out

Attached Images

**clackers** · 07-07-2015, 01:57 AM

Ah, Osv, still winning friends and influencing people! 😅

Those damned Pentaxians with their foolish DSLRs ...

**Rondec** · 07-07-2015, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by osv

if the k3 is so much better, why hasn't it held it's value?

a6000 launch price: $650
k3 launch price: $1300

the a6000 is much better for manual focusing use, and it'll mount any lens that's ever been made.

that's what you said about film, back when digital hit the scene, and look how that turned out

I think Dan's list is pretty accurate. The biggest thing right now is that the prices for APS-C cameras have dropped like a stone since the prices of full frame cameras started to come down. Beyond which, Pentax has always charged an early adopter tax on those who "need" their camera on the first day of issue. People know this and they usually wait a month or two to purchase gear, unless they really have to have it immediately.

The A6000 has a significantly cheaper body than the other cameras listed. It doesn't have sealing and its max shutter speed is 1/4000 second. This clearly puts it on a lower tier compared to the other cameras listed -- more in the range of a D5200 or a KS-2.

I do understand that EVFs make manual focusing easier, but I don't personally want to do a lot of manual focusing, I just want a camera that will auto-meter and auto focus my lenses smoothly and without a whole lot of thought. For whatever reason, Pentax bodies seem to work best with my lens line up, so I guess I'll stick with them for now.

osv · 07-07-2015, 11:34 AM

the d610 has the same 1/4000th limitation, and it's still priced at $1500, down from $2k... k3 is a bargain!

point is, how many crop dslrs still retail for nearly what they did at introduction, 15 months ago?

there were a bunch of rumors that the nx1 wasn't meeting sales goals, the price was supposed to drop in january, but guess what, the nx1 still sells for the same $1500 that it did when it first came out.

ChristianRock · 07-07-2015, 12:28 PM

I put this guy on ignore but it's hard to ignore him if you guys keep quoting him!

Really? Complaining that an out-of-production model is heavily discounted and saying it means it's not a good camera? Seriously? Then why is the NEX-7 less than half price after the A6000 came out? Ohhhhhh when it's a Sony there's a good reason for it, it's just that there's a newer model. When it's time to troll and piss off the people around whom this site is built (Pentax users), a newer model obviously isn't good enough reason. The reason must be that Pentax is utter crap.

**clackers** · 07-07-2015, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

Ohhhhhh when it's a Sony there's a good reason for it, it's just that there's a newer model. When it's time to troll and piss off the people around whom this site is built (Pentax users), a newer model obviously isn't good enough reason.

Hear, hear ... and I own three Sony bodies!

Doundounba · 07-07-2015, 05:17 PM

The NX1 (and NX500) are pretty much atop the list of cameras-I-might-shoot-with-if-I-wasn't-shooting-Pentax. I might even give the NX500 a shot within the next 6 months or so. That being said, I don't know exactly how well the NX1 is selling or not, but its user base on Flickr is incredibly small. Yesterday, 30 NX1 users uploaded 864 photos to Flickr. In comparison, yesterday, 274 K-3 users uploaded 8171 photos to Flickr. Of course, that's just a daily stat, and the numbers do vary a little, but the K-3 tends to hover around the 300 daily users mark and the NX1 around the 30 users mark. The Nikon D7100 had uploads from 2262 users yesterday. The Sony A7 had uploads from 633 users yesterday. All that doesn't at all make the NX1 a bad (or good) camera, but it does seem to indicate that Samsung still have their work cut out for them in order to make inroads into the "serious" camera market...

jimr-pdx · 07-07-2015, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

All that doesn't at all make the NX1 a bad (or good) camera, but it does seem to indicate that Samsung still have their work cut out for them in order to make inroads into the "serious" camera market...

'Tis true - is it possible that Samsung has a smaller ad budget than Pentax?

kadajawi · 07-08-2015, 02:25 AM

I think the stills market is very conservative, and Samsung doesn't have the lens lineup that people expect and demand. Just look at how long it took mFT.

Video is much less conservative, according to Samsung Korean TV stations use it for drama series, and Project Runway in the US uses it for handheld shots. So there we have the professional credentials. (It's also why I say Pentax should invest a little in video... getting stills shooters to switch, nearly impossible, all you can do is try to get a hand full of new buyers. Getting video shooters to switch... they do it all the time).

Interestingly Samsung claims internal benchmarks were high end FF cameras... that's what they were aiming for when developing the NX1.

ChristianRock · 07-08-2015, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

I think the stills market is very conservative, and Samsung doesn't have the lens lineup that people expect and demand. Just look at how long it took mFT.

I agree. IMHO if Samsung were able to get Sigma to produce their trio of super-sharp lenses in the NX mount (19, 30 and 60) I think it would make the Sigma NX1 (and their NX cameras in general) a much more tempting proposition. I for one LOVE how Samsung sensors render colors. I see the same type of film-like colors and also the natural skin tones that I get from my K20D, I see them also in the NX range (depending on the lens of course).

kadajawi · 07-08-2015, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

I agree. IMHO if Samsung were able to get Sigma to produce their trio of super-sharp lenses in the NX mount (19, 30 and 60) I think it would make the Sigma NX1 (and their NX cameras in general) a much more tempting proposition. I for one LOVE how Samsung sensors render colors. I see the same type of film-like colors and also the natural skin tones that I get from my K20D, I see them also in the NX range (depending on the lens of course).

I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that.

If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy

**Rondec** · 07-08-2015, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that.

If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy

No. K20 used a CMOS and had a fairly rudimentary live view. I think the last camera Pentax made (other than the 645D) that had a CCD was the K2000 (Km).

ChristianRock · 07-08-2015, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that.

As Rondec said, it's CMOS.

Quote:

If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy

The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass...

Doundounba · 07-08-2015, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass...

The prime selection is actually not bad, and they are surprisingly inexpensive. The 50-150mm F/2.8 is supposedly superb... It would be nice if there was an equivalent to the HD DA 55-300mm WR, which is a very nice lens for the price. I also really wish there was a native-mount long macro - not sure I could live with just a 60mm. Samyang have released their new 100mm Macro for Samsung NX, but I believe it has no automation whatsoever, not even auto-iris (what the aperture lever does on a k-mount lens), which is really very useful for macro in low light situations...

kadajawi · 07-08-2015, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

As Rondec said, it's CMOS.

Ok. I take my comment back then.

Quote:

The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass...

Depends. For video work... MF is quite common anyway, so that's not such a big drawback. For stills, totally. You'd want to have AF on this thing.

Lens selection is only one thing... people have bought into other systems already, getting them to switch is always going to be hard. Having to buy new lenses (not so valid of video because of the you're going to shoot MF anyway thing), even if they are available, is quite a problem. I suppose there are plenty of people out there who'd want a NX1, but are holding out because they are hoping that "their" brand will eventually offer something competitive, that won't require them to sell their lenses and buy new ones.

All I really need is a kit lens (18-55, something along those lines, preferably a bit wider), a 50, and something like an 80-200. That would be sufficient, so I guess Samsung could satisfy me. But the cost of switching... I'd rather have Pentax create something competitive within the next year or two.

07-07-2015, 01:57 AM	#62
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Ah, Osv, still winning friends and influencing people! 😅 Those damned Pentaxians with their foolish DSLRs ... Last edited by clackers; 07-07-2015 at 02:11 AM.

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07-06-2015, 08:45 PM	#61
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by audiobomber I own a K-3 and a6000. The K-3 is the superior camera, no contest. if the k3 is so much better, why hasn't it held it's value? a6000 launch price: $650 k3 launch price: $1300 the a6000 is much better for manual focusing use, and it'll mount any lens that's ever been made. Originally posted by audiobomber MILC fans always claim the big change is upon us, but the numbers never really change much. MILC is still just a corner of the market. that's what you said about film, back when digital hit the scene, and look how that turned out Attached Images

07-07-2015, 02:45 AM	#63
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by osv if the k3 is so much better, why hasn't it held it's value? a6000 launch price: $650 k3 launch price: $1300 the a6000 is much better for manual focusing use, and it'll mount any lens that's ever been made. that's what you said about film, back when digital hit the scene, and look how that turned out I think Dan's list is pretty accurate. The biggest thing right now is that the prices for APS-C cameras have dropped like a stone since the prices of full frame cameras started to come down. Beyond which, Pentax has always charged an early adopter tax on those who "need" their camera on the first day of issue. People know this and they usually wait a month or two to purchase gear, unless they really have to have it immediately. The A6000 has a significantly cheaper body than the other cameras listed. It doesn't have sealing and its max shutter speed is 1/4000 second. This clearly puts it on a lower tier compared to the other cameras listed -- more in the range of a D5200 or a KS-2. I do understand that EVFs make manual focusing easier, but I don't personally want to do a lot of manual focusing, I just want a camera that will auto-meter and auto focus my lenses smoothly and without a whole lot of thought. For whatever reason, Pentax bodies seem to work best with my lens line up, so I guess I'll stick with them for now.

07-07-2015, 11:34 AM	#64
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	the d610 has the same 1/4000th limitation, and it's still priced at $1500, down from $2k... k3 is a bargain! point is, how many crop dslrs still retail for nearly what they did at introduction, 15 months ago? there were a bunch of rumors that the nx1 wasn't meeting sales goals, the price was supposed to drop in january, but guess what, the nx1 still sells for the same $1500 that it did when it first came out.

07-07-2015, 12:28 PM	#65
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	I put this guy on ignore but it's hard to ignore him if you guys keep quoting him! Really? Complaining that an out-of-production model is heavily discounted and saying it means it's not a good camera? Seriously? Then why is the NEX-7 less than half price after the A6000 came out? Ohhhhhh when it's a Sony there's a good reason for it, it's just that there's a newer model. When it's time to troll and piss off the people around whom this site is built (Pentax users), a newer model obviously isn't good enough reason. The reason must be that Pentax is utter crap.

07-07-2015, 05:01 PM	#66
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by ChristianRock Ohhhhhh when it's a Sony there's a good reason for it, it's just that there's a newer model. When it's time to troll and piss off the people around whom this site is built (Pentax users), a newer model obviously isn't good enough reason. Hear, hear ... and I own three Sony bodies!

07-07-2015, 05:17 PM	#67
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	The NX1 (and NX500) are pretty much atop the list of cameras-I-might-shoot-with-if-I-wasn't-shooting-Pentax. I might even give the NX500 a shot within the next 6 months or so. That being said, I don't know exactly how well the NX1 is selling or not, but its user base on Flickr is incredibly small. Yesterday, 30 NX1 users uploaded 864 photos to Flickr. In comparison, yesterday, 274 K-3 users uploaded 8171 photos to Flickr. Of course, that's just a daily stat, and the numbers do vary a little, but the K-3 tends to hover around the 300 daily users mark and the NX1 around the 30 users mark. The Nikon D7100 had uploads from 2262 users yesterday. The Sony A7 had uploads from 633 users yesterday. All that doesn't at all make the NX1 a bad (or good) camera, but it does seem to indicate that Samsung still have their work cut out for them in order to make inroads into the "serious" camera market...

07-07-2015, 08:36 PM	#68
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897 Original Poster	Originally posted by Doundounba All that doesn't at all make the NX1 a bad (or good) camera, but it does seem to indicate that Samsung still have their work cut out for them in order to make inroads into the "serious" camera market... 'Tis true - is it possible that Samsung has a smaller ad budget than Pentax?

07-08-2015, 02:25 AM	#69
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	I think the stills market is very conservative, and Samsung doesn't have the lens lineup that people expect and demand. Just look at how long it took mFT. Video is much less conservative, according to Samsung Korean TV stations use it for drama series, and Project Runway in the US uses it for handheld shots. So there we have the professional credentials. (It's also why I say Pentax should invest a little in video... getting stills shooters to switch, nearly impossible, all you can do is try to get a hand full of new buyers. Getting video shooters to switch... they do it all the time). Interestingly Samsung claims internal benchmarks were high end FF cameras... that's what they were aiming for when developing the NX1.

07-08-2015, 07:03 AM	#70
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by kadajawi I think the stills market is very conservative, and Samsung doesn't have the lens lineup that people expect and demand. Just look at how long it took mFT. I agree. IMHO if Samsung were able to get Sigma to produce their trio of super-sharp lenses in the NX mount (19, 30 and 60) I think it would make the Sigma NX1 (and their NX cameras in general) a much more tempting proposition. I for one LOVE how Samsung sensors render colors. I see the same type of film-like colors and also the natural skin tones that I get from my K20D, I see them also in the NX range (depending on the lens of course).

07-08-2015, 10:45 AM	#71
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by ChristianRock I agree. IMHO if Samsung were able to get Sigma to produce their trio of super-sharp lenses in the NX mount (19, 30 and 60) I think it would make the Sigma NX1 (and their NX cameras in general) a much more tempting proposition. I for one LOVE how Samsung sensors render colors. I see the same type of film-like colors and also the natural skin tones that I get from my K20D, I see them also in the NX range (depending on the lens of course). I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that. If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy

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07-08-2015, 11:05 AM	#72
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by kadajawi I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that. If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy No. K20 used a CMOS and had a fairly rudimentary live view. I think the last camera Pentax made (other than the 645D) that had a CCD was the K2000 (Km).

07-08-2015, 11:38 AM	#73
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by kadajawi I'm not sure, but didn't the K20D still use a CCD sensor? I find CCD sensors to be more pleasant, but of course CMOS has many advantages that make up for that. As Rondec said, it's CMOS. Quote: If I were to start now there's no doubt I'd be saving for a NX1. But I already have some Pentax gear, so I am basically stuck. Thankfully I have a K-5, so I am mostly happy The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass...

07-08-2015, 12:46 PM	#74
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by ChristianRock The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass... The prime selection is actually not bad, and they are surprisingly inexpensive. The 50-150mm F/2.8 is supposedly superb... It would be nice if there was an equivalent to the HD DA 55-300mm WR, which is a very nice lens for the price. I also really wish there was a native-mount long macro - not sure I could live with just a 60mm. Samyang have released their new 100mm Macro for Samsung NX, but I believe it has no automation whatsoever, not even auto-iris (what the aperture lever does on a k-mount lens), which is really very useful for macro in low light situations...

07-08-2015, 07:16 PM	#75
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by ChristianRock As Rondec said, it's CMOS. Ok. I take my comment back then. Quote: The problem with NX1 is the lens selection I think... and it's not the type of camera you would buy to just use manual glass... Depends. For video work... MF is quite common anyway, so that's not such a big drawback. For stills, totally. You'd want to have AF on this thing. Lens selection is only one thing... people have bought into other systems already, getting them to switch is always going to be hard. Having to buy new lenses (not so valid of video because of the you're going to shoot MF anyway thing), even if they are available, is quite a problem. I suppose there are plenty of people out there who'd want a NX1, but are holding out because they are hoping that "their" brand will eventually offer something competitive, that won't require them to sell their lenses and buy new ones. All I really need is a kit lens (18-55, something along those lines, preferably a bit wider), a 50, and something like an 80-200. That would be sufficient, so I guess Samsung could satisfy me. But the cost of switching... I'd rather have Pentax create something competitive within the next year or two.