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04-09-2015, 09:18 PM   #1
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the NX1 get its turn

DPreview has given it 87 percent, and high praise on several levels. DxO has rated the sensor, and ..well it just barely outpoints the K-5 variants. Given nearly twice the pixels and back illumination that isn't a major jump. Curious?

Still, these are impressive results from the folks at Samsung.

---------- Post added 04-09-15 at 20:21 ----------

Samsung NX1 versus Pentax K-3 versus Pentax K-5 IIs - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

04-10-2015, 09:22 AM   #2
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looks very promising....it was a time when no one would consider Samsung and Sony into the camera market - table is turning. Mirrorless is the way to go, hope to see next Pentax mirrorless with EVF.
04-10-2015, 10:16 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
DPreview has given it 87 percent, and high praise on several levels. DxO has rated the sensor, and ..well it just barely outpoints the K-5 variants. Given nearly twice the pixels and back illumination that isn't a major jump. Curious?

Still, these are impressive results from the folks at Samsung.

---------- Post added 04-09-15 at 20:21 ----------

Samsung NX1 versus Pentax K-3 versus Pentax K-5 IIs - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark
Its a good sensor and impressive technology. Samsung is still not a very appealing option.
04-10-2015, 01:01 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
...DxO has rated the sensor, and ..well it just barely outpoints the K-5 variants. Given nearly twice the pixels and back illumination that isn't a major jump...
DXO's sensor scoring system concentrates on dynamic range, noise, and color. Resolution isn't a factor in the scoring so the extra pixels don't increase the score.

From DxOMark by DxO Labs - DxOMark:
QuoteQuote:
Sensor Overall Score AND resolution are two independent metrics of sensor performance. This means that just because camera A has more pixels than camera B (and thus sees more details) does not mean that camera A’s Sensor Overall Score will be better. Rather, Sensor Overall Score measures the quality of the captured signal, either at a pixel level or at the full sensor level. So before comparing cameras with Sensor Overall Score, it is important to first determine the resolution you are looking for (which largely depends on the size of the screen or the print you intend to use or produce).


04-10-2015, 03:05 PM   #5
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Disappointing sensor performance for such an expensive - and hyped - camera.

Perhaps the NX 500 may get traction amongst buyers.
04-10-2015, 03:20 PM   #6
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dxo hasn't reviewed the nx1 yet, which is why the comparison tables don't show any data for it:

"added by Sophie | April 09
Re: Another reason get that sensor tested
Hi,
Our apologies for the late reply. While we are not planning on reviewing the NX500 in the short run, the NX1 will be reviewed within the next couple of weeks."
04-10-2015, 04:27 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
dxo hasn't reviewed the nx1 yet, which is why the comparison tables don't show any data for it:

"added by Sophie | April 09
Re: Another reason get that sensor tested
Hi,
Our apologies for the late reply. While we are not planning on reviewing the NX500 in the short run, the NX1 will be reviewed within the next couple of weeks."
It looks like it has scores -- dynamic range, high iso, etc. It just doesn't have graphs done yet.

Looks like the only difference is better dynamic range at base iso for K5 and very slight iso bump for the NX 1. I doubt that differences between the NX 1 and K3 would be visible in real world shooting -- unless you need the faster frame rate that sensor offers.

The weird thing was previously there were reports of people saying it had a one stop high iso advantage over other APS-C offerings. Feels more like Fuji-over hype to me.

04-10-2015, 05:51 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It looks like it has scores -- dynamic range, high iso, etc. It just doesn't have graphs done yet.

Looks like the only difference is better dynamic range at base iso for K5 and very slight iso bump for the NX 1. I doubt that differences between the NX 1 and K3 would be visible in real world shooting -- unless you need the faster frame rate that sensor offers.

The weird thing was previously there were reports of people saying it had a one stop high iso advantage over other APS-C offerings. Feels more like Fuji-over hype to me.
The DxOmark score looks just like I have been expecting.

What I wrote when I first heard of the Samsung NX1.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Samsung have not solved, but improved the cross talk with 30%.
I'm not sure how much of a problem crosstalk is on other APS-C sensors, but an improvement of 30% might not be all that much. Fi a change from 10% to 7%.

So I would not expect the improvement to be very large on APS-C sensors, but if Samsung finally can make sensors in the same league as Sony it would be really great.
The reason why many think the new Samsung sensor perform better is most likely because NX1 has a powerful CPU, so Samsung can apply more sophisticated noise reduction than most other camera use. But that only apply to JPGs, DxOmark compares RAW data performance.
04-10-2015, 10:48 PM   #9
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The NX-1 actually scores higher than the K-5ii....unlike the K-3 which scores lower. Does that make it "disappointing" as well?
04-10-2015, 11:53 PM   #10
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The CameraStore review of the NX1 ( YouTube) highlighted one big issue. AF. Very good in well lit situations, as soon as the light dropped slightly , lots of hunting and often failed to focus.

The NX1 is feature packed but they have overlooked one of the most important features of all- AF.
04-11-2015, 01:34 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The NX-1 actually scores higher than the
By just one point from an old camera, Cali!

That's saying something about just about the most expensive APS-C body you can buy!

For pure stills image quality, 16Mp on APS-C is not bad - Fuji seems to think so, too.
04-11-2015, 02:53 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The NX-1 actually scores higher than the K-5ii....unlike the K-3 which scores lower. Does that make it "disappointing" as well?
They are all equivalent. You need a five point difference to be able to see it in real life shooting. The idea is that the NX 1 gets 100 iso improvement in high iso performance over these other two sensors and lags them a little bit in low iso dynamic range -- it is nice that a company other than Sony is turning out decent sensors, but it also says that maybe we have maxed out what sensor improvement you can get from a given size sensor. Maybe noise reduction techniques can get a little better, but the K5 is still about the high water mark for dynamic range in a APS-C and high iso performance has not improved much for APS-C sensors since then, either.

It is a little sad, because the biggest improvements in this sensor seem to be with frame rate and video performance and I am not terribly interested in either. Someone said maybe the next Sony 24 megapixels sensor would do 19 fps. I can't imagine. Just not my cup of tea, I guess.
04-11-2015, 02:58 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
By just one point from an old camera, Cali!

That's saying something about just about the most expensive APS-C body you can buy!

For pure stills image quality, 16Mp on APS-C is not bad - Fuji seems to think so, too.
You seem to have forgotten the second part of my quote which mentioned the fact that the K-3 was actually worse than that same older camera. So by your logic it is even more disappointing than the NX-1.
04-11-2015, 08:10 AM - 1 Like   #14
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Given that the NX-1 sensor is almost 2x the MP of the K-5 I think it looks pretty good. The added resolution can handle more NR and still give you more detail than the K-5.


DxO PRIME NR actually works better with higher pixel densities. What makes DxO PRIME so slow is that as it is processing each pixel it is actually analyzing all the pixels in a given radius to determine what is noise and what is detail. The more pixels in that radius the better DxO PRIME works and the slower. If the S/N ratio are the same, then the sensor with more MPs will look better since the noise that is there will appear is a finer grain in the image.


It would be nice to see an other company use the Samsung sensor. Just as Sony doesn't seem to get as much out of their own sensors as Pentax and Nikon, I think a company like Ricoh could get noticeably better performance out of the Samsung sensor.
04-11-2015, 09:10 AM   #15
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A difference in Overall Score of 5 points is equal to 1/3 stop. Therefore 80 on the K-3 vs. 83 on the NX-1 equals 1/5 of a stop. Good luck seeing that in your photos.
Samsung NX1 versus Pentax K-3 versus Pentax K-5 IIs - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

I looked at Samsung when I decided to add a Mirrorless body. I had no interest in any of their cameras, and that hasn't changed with the addition of the NX1 and NX500. No EVF, no sale. That is my hard and fast rule, been there, done that (K-01 and Q). They have some truly interesting lenses, but nothing over 200mm, which means the system is not suitable for one of my main interests (birding/wildlife).

The NX1 does the horrific "EVF slide show". In continuous shutter mode, the image in your viewfinder is of the last frame, not the live view. Good luck shooting action with that mess. I don't shoot video and would not value 15fps, because I have to sort through them later, so the added features vs. the K-3 mean nothing to me. Low light shooting OTOH is seriously important, amazing on the K-3 and another fail for the NX1. It is a great camera for someone, but not me.
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