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12-12-2015, 02:36 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by dc1500 Quote
I think you'll find that all of the above mentioned combinations will produce high quality sharp images. Nevertheless I went for a mid range Nikon body(D5300) and the Sigma 150-600mm 'C' ,(Combo cost me just over £1100 new) I kept my existing K3 DA*300 + Pentax 1.4TC. The main reason I went for this combination was wanting action wildlife on a budget.
So far I would say focusing speed, tracking, stabilisation are,sadly, in a different league to the Pentax combination! And if the Sport version is sharper it must be one hell of a lens because this combination, after his slight cropping to get same image size, is matching my mates Canon 7D(ii) plus 100-400L (new). IQ is as good or better at full reach than the Pentax +TC combo.
The best IQ is probably still the DA*300mm on its own and where focus and reach aren't an issue, and throw in f4, I would use that, especially as the K3 is a superior camera.
Dave
are you saying that the Nikon D5300'S focussing speed, tracking is far superior than the K3 - the K3 being the very top of the range for Pentax - the Nikon being mid tier?

12-12-2015, 02:48 PM   #32
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I'm afraid yes, it appears that way.
12-12-2015, 02:49 PM   #33
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My guess would be that comparing such a setup, you'd need a 150-450 to even know what the best focus speed of the K-3 is. The older SDM glass was designed to work with much slower focusing systems. You always have to be careful comparing 3-4 (or more) year old gear , to new gear. The older SDM lenses were designed for slower focusing cameras. There was no point in making them any faster. Assuming the newer glass focuses at the same speed is just wrong. And we see it happen so often....

If I had a dollar for every time someone comes on here and says "My 1 year old Nikon gear is so much better than my 5 year old Pentax gear", I'd be have at least 10 dollars.

Compare same to same, you won't run into these kinds of issues.

Last edited by normhead; 12-12-2015 at 02:55 PM.
12-12-2015, 03:36 PM   #34
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It would be nice if you were right. I would prefer to use a Pentax K3 with a 150-450 and the TC, although of course it would cost me more for the privilege. However the D5300 is the same generation age wise as the K3 so it is like for like from the camera aspect. You could also make the argument that the D5300 should be slower because it is not as advanced as the K3 in the range. But anyway I am not comparing to the 150-450 because I don't have that. My comparative comments relate to the DA*300+TC. As the SIgma 150-600 isn't made for the Pentax until someone does what I have done with the DFA 150-450 against Nikon +SIgma 150-600 I can't say if that is slower or faster.

---------- Post added 12-12-15 at 10:44 PM ----------

Incidentally, if I had a dollar for every time in discussions about long lenses for shooting birds and they show pictures of aeroplanes or large mammals as examples I'd be ten dollars better off as well! Compare the same, as you say :-)

12-12-2015, 04:32 PM   #35
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You clearly haven't understood the implications of my post... no point in continuing until you have....
12-12-2015, 04:53 PM   #36
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No problem. If that's what you think. I'm sure others may still find my unbiased observations with that combination for wildlife action and bird photography of some use.
12-12-2015, 07:40 PM   #37
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Where can they see examples of your work... just so they know what you're talking about?

Oh, and no one gets to declare themselves unbiased, that's a decision others make. Your conclusions are clearly biased against Pentax if you compare and old slow SDM like the DA*300 to any lens of modern design, and declare the Pentax slower focusing because of that. The K-3 only speeds up the screw drive, it can't speed up an older SDM like a 60-250 or 300. More modern focusing lenses like the 18-135, 16-85m and 150-450 are much faster focusing. Older screw drive lenses like the Tamron 90 and Tamron 70-200 also have very fast focus speeds.


Last edited by normhead; 12-12-2015 at 07:52 PM.
12-13-2015, 04:00 AM   #38
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Look - you accused me of not understanding what were you were saying. I am a lifelong and massive Pentax fan. Still am. I am not biased against Pentax which is why my remarks may be less biased than a Nikon user, which is what I meant!! All I am doing is telling everyone what I have found with a specific Pentax setup which IS suitable for bird photography and another set up which is available. In this particular set up I have found the Nikon one to focus faster and track better for this particular niche of photography. You can quote as many lenses that may be much faster but none of those are suitable for the aspect I am talking about. I DON'T have a problem with Pentax and my other lenses or uses. I can't be much clearer than that. I don't want to get into an argument because I am just trying to be helpful.
For what it's worth you can see my work here, with the most recent with the Nikon, the rest are with the Pentax. The Rough Legged Buzzard taking off I feel I may have missed with the Pentax, that type of surprise action wildlife that is unpredicatable.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dcweather/

(Ignore the Kingfisher- it's through a glass window!)
12-13-2015, 04:55 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by dc1500 Quote
Look - you accused me of not understanding what were you were saying. I am a lifelong and massive Pentax fan. Still am. I am not biased against Pentax which is why my remarks may be less biased than a Nikon user, which is what I meant!! All I am doing is telling everyone what I have found with a specific Pentax setup which IS suitable for bird photography and another set up which is available. In this particular set up I have found the Nikon one to focus faster and track better for this particular niche of photography. You can quote as many lenses that may be much faster but none of those are suitable for the aspect I am talking about. I DON'T have a problem with Pentax and my other lenses or uses. I can't be much clearer than that. I don't want to get into an argument because I am just trying to be helpful.
For what it's worth you can see my work here, with the most recent with the Nikon, the rest are with the Pentax. The Rough Legged Buzzard taking off I feel I may have missed with the Pentax, that type of surprise action wildlife that is unpredicatable.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dcweather/

(Ignore the Kingfisher- it's through a glass window!)
Nice shots.

I do agree with Norm, that this sort of thing is actually more dependent on lens motors than on the auto focus module. SDM lenses just aren't very speedy and while sharp, the DA *300 isn't a fast focusing lens. The Pentax 150-450 by all accounts is a lot faster focusing than it is (I haven't used it), as will Sigma HSM lenses.

Pentax may still lag in focus tracking to similarly priced Nikon/Canon bodies, but for AF-S it is at least as fast -- as long as the focus speed on the glass is adequate.

I feel like Pentax doesn't have a full line up of lenses for wildlife photography, although it has gotten better over time, but it is a mistake to put the problem on the camera bodies, when it is the lens that is the culprit.
12-13-2015, 06:48 AM   #40
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QuoteQuote:
Look - you accused me of not understanding what were you were saying.
I like your images.

So this is all about you and your set up really... it isn't about Pentax or Nikon, and what you'd like to say is your Nikon set-up has faster focusing than your Pentax set-up, although people with better set-ups will probably find your conclusions worth nothing.

Personally, I have many strategies for getting pictures of birds in light in focus. Some of the above images were taken with manual focus lenses, so while I appreciate your stated opinion that you couldn't have obtained one of your images with Pentax AF, I have obtained some of my images with no AF at all. With my Pentax gear I tend to turn off tracking and rely on the faster burst mode and much deeper buffer to increase my odds of getting keepers. So I tend to think you would have missed a lot of these images using a Nikon APS-c camera, because of a deeper buffer and faster burst. I've attempted shots like this suing my older K-5 with it's 5 fps frame rate, similar to a 5300, once. It was frustrating. I don't know how you live with it. It's interesting you were able to go back to that. I couldn't.

People shot wildlife photography for 50 years with no AF.

So, I'm saying for people with Pentax gear, by developing good technique, you can end up with more keepers with your Pentax gear by using your camera to it's strength. Just the fact you are taking 33% to 60% more frames than you can with Nikon APS-c equipment means in many situations, you will get shots people using slower frame rates will miss.

Just saying... if you pick one element of a camera system and dwell on it, you can really get it wrong. There's more than one way to look at this.

Taken with my slow AF and manual lenses....














Last edited by normhead; 12-13-2015 at 07:11 AM.
12-13-2015, 07:27 AM   #41
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Yes great pictures Norm. And yes I am indeed comparing my set up against the Nikon one with my Pentax and not yours or other people's - as I couldn't possibly do anything else. Yes, some nice pics and I have plenty like that with Pentax cameras. It is true what you say but the 300mm DA* IS an SDM lens so it is what it is. The reasons are not relevant - it is about finding the best system for a particular type of photography at a particular budget. Others will have different systems and views.
People before have liked to say it is to do with my (mis?) perceived lack of technique. Not sure what that is based on. But it is true at my age I am unable to focus manually due to less good eyesight and like to rely on the speed and accuracy of the AF system unless there is a lot of time.
Within the general budget of £500-1000 it was generally accepted by most Pentax birders that the DA*300 with or without the TC was the best option. That was why I used it and I agree. Now it appears that the 150-450mm might be a better bet but it is at a higher price. The 560mm is apparently superb but costs even more and so on. So at this stage I have compared his favoured combination with another option in this budget and it is favourable when it comes to focus speed and accuracy against the Pentax one. (Incidentally my Sigma 150-500 HSM was no faster on the K3 than the DA*300 which may suggest it's not just the lens).
If the 150-450+TC is shown to be as fast and accurate at focusing as the D5300 and Sigma 150-600 by people then I will be saving those extra hundreds to get it, believe me, so I can use my trusted K3 for this niche again.
I hope this clarifies my thoughts for those unclear, and I will leave it at that because I don't want to take the thread into negative territory :-)
Cheers, Dave
12-13-2015, 07:31 AM   #42
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I'm going to just have to agree with you, D5300 and a 150-600 is a great deal at a great price for anyone wanting to get into bird photography.. And honestly, If I were starting out from scratch, I might give it a serious look. And like most of us on here, I'm seriously struggling with the cost of the 150-450. But as long as I have my old A-400 and TC, giving me 520 at ƒ8, I'll probably just keep chugging along. I suspect if my buddy dave with his Canon 800mm equivalent point and shoot asked me what to look at, that would be a pretty good set up. It's truly unfortunate that there isn' currently a Pentax set up I could steer him towards. Maybe a K-30 and 50-500? And I don't know of a single place in the world he could go to hold that set up in his hands. You really do have to be stubborn, to be a Pentax guy.

Last edited by normhead; 12-13-2015 at 07:37 AM.
12-13-2015, 08:40 AM   #43
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"You really do have to be stubborn, to be a Pentax guy." I'll second that ... and not rich!
12-13-2015, 09:02 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by dc1500 Quote
"You really do have to be stubborn, to be a Pentax guy." I'll second that ... and not rich!
Oh if I were rich, I'd have an A-400 2.8 on my 1.7 AF TC tomorrow.You can blow a lot of money on Pentax gear. Some of the guys on the forum have Pentax gear worth more than my house.
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