Sony A7rII - 42MP

normhead · 08-08-2015, 09:36 AM

So, is there any noticeable difference between 36MP and 42 MP?

Or more to the point, when they test it on IR will it pick up those little pen marks that the 645D picked up, that none of the 36MP FFs were able to resolve.

philbaum · 08-08-2015, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

A review, mostly of the video side of the A7R II.

Sony A7R II Review - Part 1 - Summoning the devil - EOSHD

Heat seems to be a bit of an issue, amongst others...

True. But Jim Lasson's review indicated no heat issue in stills. 30 minutes in 4K in super 35 video and 45 min. in FF. I can live with that since i don't do any video hardly at all.

I'd like to try doing some video at some point but those kind of limitations are fine for me considering the relatively portability of the camera.

kadajawi · 08-08-2015, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

True. But Jim Lasson's review indicated no heat issue in stills. 30 minutes in 4K in super 35 video and 45 min. in FF. I can live with that since i don't do any video hardly at all.

I'd like to try doing some video at some point but those kind of limitations are fine for me considering the relatively portability of the camera.

Yeah I wouldn't expect heat issues during stills, though my K-5 overheats in live view... and I imagine the Sony may too.

The thing is that the A7R II might be an option for serious filmmaking, so there overheating would be an issue. Of course, being _that_ cheap compared to the cameras you would otherwise have to buy, you can just buy 2 of them and alternate. What I don't understand is why the camera doesn't do line skipping (optionally) to reduce rolling shutter. If you move the camera a lot, rolling shutter is a problem, but moire and aliasing isn't (you wouldn't notice it through all the movement anyway), if you don't move the camera rolling shutter isn't a problem, but moire and aliasing is. Being able to chose would certainly help. In line skipping mode it wouldn't heat up as much.

---------- Post added 08-08-15 at 20:01 ----------

Originally posted by Class A

Heat?

The graph shows that the camera has no material self-heating problem (for the test scemario).

The other measurements don't reveal anything concerning either. That there is noise reduction at the RAW level for extremely high ISO settings is not ideal but one can easily address that by not choosing such high ISO values.

As for the EOSHD review, I don't think this reviewer is unbiased. I'm not impressed by his style and wouldn't be surprised if future reviews would paint a different picture.

He is quite... well, Clarkson-ish, but I trust his judgment. He doesn't hold any punches. He's been using Canon as a punching bag for the past year or so. So I don't think he sticks to a brand because of bias. He works as a filmmaker, so I trust his judgment in terms of video more than reviewers that usually shoot stills and then try to test the video functionality of a camera... those tests tend to be pointless.

For stills shooters these things don't matter of course, and 30-45 mins of shooting (and it is hot in Berlin) is enough for most, unless they really buy this instead of a C100 II for example. A A7S with external recorder (or eventually a A7S II) seems like a better choice for those.

This is great for people who need to do either stills, or stills AND video. I could imagine a wedding photographer shooting with this Sony, occasionally doing video to give the videographer another angle.

But... I totally forgot about EVF... after all the sensor has to be active all the time while shooting. Maybe it does line skip then, leading to less heat?

What I don't understand is more heat in super 35 mode than in FF. They said FF uses pixel binning, so it has to read the whole sensor, do more processing... why does it heat up less?

itshimitis · 08-08-2015, 11:02 AM

In serious film making you're not filming for more than a few minutes at a time. They don't leave the cameras rolling - not to minimise data use - data is cheap but human editors (and high end software) isn't. So in most situations, they would a) have more than one camera and b) there would be time for the camera to cool down. The 5DII was used in many serious filming but that would have got hot too...

philbaum · 08-08-2015, 10:55 PM

If one thinks about an interview for 30 minutes, thats a relatively long time. Nex 5n has a reputation for video overheating and one of the tricks that was used was to move the rear screen away from the body. Ambient temp probably plays into it as well.

rawr · 08-08-2015, 11:28 PM

Do the Sony A7 series have camera body temperature recorded in the EXIF, like Pentaxes do?
That would be useful data for all these discussions about heat.

kadajawi · 08-09-2015, 03:26 AM

Fair enough. Depends on what you shoot, but I think the risk of having the camera overheat is... a bit of a downer... not a dealbreaker though. I'm mostly thinking about concerts, interviews, ... or if the actor keeps messing up/complicated shots.

Having more than one camera would certainly fix the problem, and you could shoot different angles.

**Mikesul** · 08-09-2015, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Do the Sony A7 series have camera body temperature recorded in the EXIF, like Pentaxes do?
That would be useful data for all these discussions about heat.

Exiftool shows Battery Temperature in A7II. I cannot find a reference to just Temperature.

rawr · 08-09-2015, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Mikesul

Exiftool shows Battery Temperature in A7II. I cannot find a reference to just Temperature.

Interesting. The list of the [gazillion] Sony tags EXIFTOOL knows about include a batch for 'AmbientTemperature', 'CameraTemperature', and 'SensorTemperature', but it's hard to see if they are likely to be reported by any A7 series. I would be surprised if the data wasn't there somewhere though. I think some of the Sony EXIF tags are encrypted, so figuring them out can sometimes take time for the maker of EXIFTOOL.

**Mikesul** · 08-09-2015, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Interesting. The list of the [gazillion] Sony tags EXIFTOOL knows about include a batch for 'AmbientTemperature', 'CameraTemperature', and 'SensorTemperature', but it's hard to see if they are likely to be reported by any A7 series. I would be surprised if the data wasn't there somewhere though. I think some of the Sony EXIF tags are encrypted, so figuring them out can sometimes take time for the maker of EXIFTOOL.

I went through the list a couple of time but it is certainly possible I missed something. I selected All on the Exif listing. You would think they would include all in their more recent cameras.

---------- Post added 08-09-15 at 08:46 AM ----------

I updated Exiftool and now I see Ambient Temperature as well as Battery Temperature.

rawr · 08-09-2015, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Mikesul

I updated Exiftool and now I see Ambient Temperature as well as Battery Temperature.

Excellent! Is that for the A7r II?

**Mikesul** · 08-09-2015, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Excellent! Is that for the A7r II?

I wish! No it is the A7II and A6000 but I am sure the A7RII will have at least as much info.

Winder · 08-11-2015, 12:15 PM - **1 Like**

Lightfinity | Sony a7RII First Impressions

philbaum · 08-11-2015, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Lightfinity | Sony a7RII First Impressions

Thanks for the link to the review. In this review, it was all sony lenses and everything worked fine. In some forums, theres a lot of analyzing going on as to which Canon and third party lenses work with it electronically and which don't. All i need is a few good lenses - i'm not one of these guys that feels it necessary to try a lot of lenses. A few good lenses - and i'll be set. I do think Sony needs to build some more factories

Winder · 08-11-2015, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Thanks for the link to the review. In this review, it was all sony lenses and everything worked fine. In some forums, theres a lot of analyzing going on as to which Canon and third party lenses work with it electronically and which don't. All i need is a few good lenses - i'm not one of these guys that feels it necessary to try a lot of lenses. A few good lenses - and i'll be set. I do think Sony needs to build some more factories

I'm still not happy with how Sony is cooking the RAW files or the drop to 12-bit under certain conditions. I'm going to wait on an A-9 body (I hope). I keep going back and forth on waiting for a Pentax FF and new glass of just going with Sony and waiting on them to improve a few features.

08-08-2015, 10:44 AM	#183
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by philbaum True. But Jim Lasson's review indicated no heat issue in stills. 30 minutes in 4K in super 35 video and 45 min. in FF. I can live with that since i don't do any video hardly at all. I'd like to try doing some video at some point but those kind of limitations are fine for me considering the relatively portability of the camera. Yeah I wouldn't expect heat issues during stills, though my K-5 overheats in live view... and I imagine the Sony may too. The thing is that the A7R II might be an option for serious filmmaking, so there overheating would be an issue. Of course, being _that_ cheap compared to the cameras you would otherwise have to buy, you can just buy 2 of them and alternate. What I don't understand is why the camera doesn't do line skipping (optionally) to reduce rolling shutter. If you move the camera a lot, rolling shutter is a problem, but moire and aliasing isn't (you wouldn't notice it through all the movement anyway), if you don't move the camera rolling shutter isn't a problem, but moire and aliasing is. Being able to chose would certainly help. In line skipping mode it wouldn't heat up as much. ---------- Post added 08-08-15 at 20:01 ---------- Originally posted by Class A Heat? The graph shows that the camera has no material self-heating problem (for the test scemario). The other measurements don't reveal anything concerning either. That there is noise reduction at the RAW level for extremely high ISO settings is not ideal but one can easily address that by not choosing such high ISO values. As for the EOSHD review, I don't think this reviewer is unbiased. I'm not impressed by his style and wouldn't be surprised if future reviews would paint a different picture. He is quite... well, Clarkson-ish, but I trust his judgment. He doesn't hold any punches. He's been using Canon as a punching bag for the past year or so. So I don't think he sticks to a brand because of bias. He works as a filmmaker, so I trust his judgment in terms of video more than reviewers that usually shoot stills and then try to test the video functionality of a camera... those tests tend to be pointless. For stills shooters these things don't matter of course, and 30-45 mins of shooting (and it is hot in Berlin) is enough for most, unless they really buy this instead of a C100 II for example. A A7S with external recorder (or eventually a A7S II) seems like a better choice for those. This is great for people who need to do either stills, or stills AND video. I could imagine a wedding photographer shooting with this Sony, occasionally doing video to give the videographer another angle. But... I totally forgot about EVF... after all the sensor has to be active all the time while shooting. Maybe it does line skip then, leading to less heat? What I don't understand is more heat in super 35 mode than in FF. They said FF uses pixel binning, so it has to read the whole sensor, do more processing... why does it heat up less? Last edited by kadajawi; 08-08-2015 at 11:03 AM.

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08-08-2015, 09:36 AM	#181
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	So, is there any noticeable difference between 36MP and 42 MP? Or more to the point, when they test it on IR will it pick up those little pen marks that the 645D picked up, that none of the 36MP FFs were able to resolve.

08-08-2015, 10:37 AM	#182
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by kadajawi A review, mostly of the video side of the A7R II. Sony A7R II Review - Part 1 - Summoning the devil - EOSHD Heat seems to be a bit of an issue, amongst others... True. But Jim Lasson's review indicated no heat issue in stills. 30 minutes in 4K in super 35 video and 45 min. in FF. I can live with that since i don't do any video hardly at all. I'd like to try doing some video at some point but those kind of limitations are fine for me considering the relatively portability of the camera.

08-08-2015, 11:02 AM	#184
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	In serious film making you're not filming for more than a few minutes at a time. They don't leave the cameras rolling - not to minimise data use - data is cheap but human editors (and high end software) isn't. So in most situations, they would a) have more than one camera and b) there would be time for the camera to cool down. The 5DII was used in many serious filming but that would have got hot too...

08-08-2015, 10:55 PM	#185
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	If one thinks about an interview for 30 minutes, thats a relatively long time. Nex 5n has a reputation for video overheating and one of the tricks that was used was to move the rear screen away from the body. Ambient temp probably plays into it as well.

08-08-2015, 11:28 PM	#186
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Do the Sony A7 series have camera body temperature recorded in the EXIF, like Pentaxes do? That would be useful data for all these discussions about heat.

08-09-2015, 03:26 AM	#187
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Fair enough. Depends on what you shoot, but I think the risk of having the camera overheat is... a bit of a downer... not a dealbreaker though. I'm mostly thinking about concerts, interviews, ... or if the actor keeps messing up/complicated shots. Having more than one camera would certainly fix the problem, and you could shoot different angles.

08-09-2015, 07:46 AM	#188
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by rawr Do the Sony A7 series have camera body temperature recorded in the EXIF, like Pentaxes do? That would be useful data for all these discussions about heat. Exiftool shows Battery Temperature in A7II. I cannot find a reference to just Temperature.

08-09-2015, 08:06 AM	#189
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Mikesul Exiftool shows Battery Temperature in A7II. I cannot find a reference to just Temperature. Interesting. The list of the [gazillion] Sony tags EXIFTOOL knows about include a batch for 'AmbientTemperature', 'CameraTemperature', and 'SensorTemperature', but it's hard to see if they are likely to be reported by any A7 series. I would be surprised if the data wasn't there somewhere though. I think some of the Sony EXIF tags are encrypted, so figuring them out can sometimes take time for the maker of EXIFTOOL.

08-09-2015, 08:33 AM	#190
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by rawr Interesting. The list of the [gazillion] Sony tags EXIFTOOL knows about include a batch for 'AmbientTemperature', 'CameraTemperature', and 'SensorTemperature', but it's hard to see if they are likely to be reported by any A7 series. I would be surprised if the data wasn't there somewhere though. I think some of the Sony EXIF tags are encrypted, so figuring them out can sometimes take time for the maker of EXIFTOOL. I went through the list a couple of time but it is certainly possible I missed something. I selected All on the Exif listing. You would think they would include all in their more recent cameras. ---------- Post added 08-09-15 at 08:46 AM ---------- I updated Exiftool and now I see Ambient Temperature as well as Battery Temperature.

08-09-2015, 08:55 AM	#191
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Mikesul I updated Exiftool and now I see Ambient Temperature as well as Battery Temperature. Excellent! Is that for the A7r II?

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08-09-2015, 09:12 AM	#192
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by rawr Excellent! Is that for the A7r II? I wish! No it is the A7II and A6000 but I am sure the A7RII will have at least as much info.

08-11-2015, 12:15 PM - 1 Like	#193
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Lightfinity \| Sony a7RII First Impressions

08-11-2015, 02:08 PM	#194
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder Lightfinity \| Sony a7RII First Impressions Thanks for the link to the review. In this review, it was all sony lenses and everything worked fine. In some forums, theres a lot of analyzing going on as to which Canon and third party lenses work with it electronically and which don't. All i need is a few good lenses - i'm not one of these guys that feels it necessary to try a lot of lenses. A few good lenses - and i'll be set. I do think Sony needs to build some more factories

08-11-2015, 03:49 PM	#195
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by philbaum Thanks for the link to the review. In this review, it was all sony lenses and everything worked fine. In some forums, theres a lot of analyzing going on as to which Canon and third party lenses work with it electronically and which don't. All i need is a few good lenses - i'm not one of these guys that feels it necessary to try a lot of lenses. A few good lenses - and i'll be set. I do think Sony needs to build some more factories I'm still not happy with how Sony is cooking the RAW files or the drop to 12-bit under certain conditions. I'm going to wait on an A-9 body (I hope). I keep going back and forth on waiting for a Pentax FF and new glass of just going with Sony and waiting on them to improve a few features.