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06-11-2015, 04:15 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
OK. So imagina a 42 MP FF sensor, with pixel shift...
Would it be enough to convince you?

06-11-2015, 07:01 PM - 1 Like   #32
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I find it odd that nobody is talking about the new AF system. The difference between 36MP and 42MP is pretty nominal in the real world, but the new AF system has the most coverage of any camera on the market. With the really fast read out speed of the new sensor and the 300% increase in processing power this could be an excellent AF system. This is more important than the extra 6MPs.
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06-11-2015, 08:51 PM   #33
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Read the specs. Nice. ISO 50-102,400, 4k video, 42mp, sounds like much, much better AF, no AA filter, BSI, it sounds like a real winner. If we get this in a Pentax FF that would be pretty cool since I already have glass to cover the whole range from 12-500mm, and a 1.7 adapter to take it beyond that.
06-11-2015, 11:46 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I find it odd that nobody is talking about the new AF system. The difference between 36MP and 42MP is pretty nominal in the real world, but the new AF system has the most coverage of any camera on the market. With the really fast read out speed of the new sensor and the 300% increase in processing power this could be an excellent AF system. This is more important than the extra 6MPs.


I do not use autofocus. Six MP's means more to me.

06-12-2015, 12:35 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I find it odd that nobody is talking about the new AF system. The difference between 36MP and 42MP is pretty nominal in the real world, but the new AF system has the most coverage of any camera on the market. With the really fast read out speed of the new sensor and the 300% increase in processing power this could be an excellent AF system. This is more important than the extra 6MPs.
Would be pretty much wasted in a Pentax though... it is only useful during LiveView or video recording. Can't make use of it with the OVF. Unless they drop the AF sensor in the bottom and have a mirror that can quickly go transparent to let all the light through to the sensor.
06-13-2015, 04:38 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Would be pretty much wasted in a Pentax though... it is only useful during LiveView or video recording. Can't make use of it with the OVF. Unless they drop the AF sensor in the bottom and have a mirror that can quickly go transparent to let all the light through to the sensor.
The new sensor is fast enough for 4K and has DRAM built on to the sensor. Ricoh would be crazy not to implement 4K and have the AF system for video. Ricoh has to address video if they want to be a player.

Either way, this AF system has a lot of potential.
06-13-2015, 07:33 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The new sensor is fast enough for 4K and has DRAM built on to the sensor. Ricoh would be crazy not to implement 4K and have the AF system for video. Ricoh has to address video if they want to be a player.

Either way, this AF system has a lot of potential.
The SR system Pentax uses is good enough for properly stabilized video, as Olympus and Sony are now offering (and they advertise it, too! Olympus has commissioned videos shot handheld to demonstrate how awesome it is). Yet Pentax doesn't use it. Sensor shift composition adjustment could be used to create a larger sensor area (with photos that can be stitched on a computer), yet one has to do it fully manual, which takes a long time and is quite troublesome.

So it's nothing new if Pentax doesn't make use of the hardware. Also, in this case the processor needs to be able to record 4K, which is not possible with current Milbeaut iterations (maybe the next generation of processors will do it, but nothing of that sort has been announced so far (AFAIK).

06-14-2015, 02:52 AM   #38
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Well the question is whether Pentax will use this sensor at all. This sensor seems to be optimized for short register distance mirrorless.
06-14-2015, 07:38 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Well the question is whether Pentax will use this sensor at all. This sensor seems to be optimized for short register distance mirrorless.
One of the Pentax Ambassadors said that the FF sensor would be less than 46MP and have Sony's newest technology. The new 42MP BSI fits that description very well. Will it be the exact same sensor? I don't know, but I expect it will be some version of the 42MP BSI sensor.
06-14-2015, 10:03 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
One of the Pentax Ambassadors said that the FF sensor would be less than 46MP and have Sony's newest technology. The new 42MP BSI fits that description very well. Will it be the exact same sensor? I don't know, but I expect it will be some version of the 42MP BSI sensor.
I doubt it:

(1) A7RII was so secretive that even just a day before it was announced, SAR (and other rumors sites) had absolutely no clue about the specs and none mentioned the 42 MP sensor. It's highly unlikely that Nikon and Pentax were
manufacturing cameras based on that sensor (and Pentax one would be close to production if not already in production) and no rumor site even knew about it.

(2) Last 3 years Sony has shown they would go exclusive on some sensors for an year or two before they start selling (example: RX100, A7s, etc), so there is no guarantee that this sensor is even on sale yet.
06-14-2015, 10:07 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Well the question is whether Pentax will use this sensor at all. This sensor seems to be optimized for short register distance mirrorless.
If it works well in those situations shouldn't it work well for a DSLR too? I mean the main advantage is that light hitting the sensor at an extreme angle will still be recorded, unlike normal sensors. A sensor like that should work great for old lenses that aren't optimized for digital sensors.
06-14-2015, 11:24 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElrondElensar Quote
I doubt it:

(1) A7RII was so secretive that even just a day before it was announced, SAR (and other rumors sites) had absolutely no clue about the specs and none mentioned the 42 MP sensor. It's highly unlikely that Nikon and Pentax were
manufacturing cameras based on that sensor (and Pentax one would be close to production if not already in production) and no rumor site even knew about it.

(2) Last 3 years Sony has shown they would go exclusive on some sensors for an year or two before they start selling (example: RX100, A7s, etc), so there is no guarantee that this sensor is even on sale yet.
You need to go back a little farther. Last year it was rumored that Sony would announce new sensor technology in 2015. Everyone assumed it would be at CP+ in Feb, but they held it back. If you look at some thread on this boards you will find mention of a 42MP sensor that yields 18MP ASP-C crops. Nobody thought it would be a BSI sensor, but yes 42MP has been rumored.

The A7s sensor was designed for 4K and 12MP allows for 4K without line skipping, pixel binning or downsampling. The reality is they wouldn't sell any of them even if they didn't keep them off the market. Its a sensor designed for 4K work. At low ISO the 36MP has better color, DR, lower noise, and is cheaper. What company that is developing a DSLR today would by an expensive 12MP sensor designed for 4K work when they can get the 36MP for less and better IQ up to 6,400 ISO.

The 42MP is a different story. It yields 18MP APS-C images so Ricoh users can still use all their APS-C glass and get excellent results. The BSI sensor should yield better color and DR.

Sony really can't afford to keep sensors to themselves. The BSI sensor from Samsung is actually very good and if Sony decides to keep the sensor for themselves they open the door for their competition. Sony needs volume to keep the cost down and the reality is that Sony isn't going to sell a million A7rII bodies. Sony needs Nikon and Ricoh as customers. Samsung is on the sidelines just praying that Sony keeps this sensor off of the market, and so is Fuji and Panasonic.
06-14-2015, 12:22 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
If it works well in those situations shouldn't it work well for a DSLR too?
Well, depends. If the wells are optimized for a certain angle, they might not be as good for another angle of incidence, one from a relatively large register distance, which the K-mount has. And secondly, the sensor seems to have some AF chips, but those only work in liveview (when the mirror isn't in the way). This means they would be wasted on a DSLR until you go live view or video mode. It might not make sense to buy expensive on-sensor AF if the camera won't be able to use it.
I am not sure if any of this, I am just saying that a sensor optimized for mirrorless might not necessarily be the most affordable, or most effective for a DSLR. But the 42MP BSI sensor does sound good, I am not saying that I don't want it. Just that I am not holding my breath waiting for it to happen!
06-14-2015, 12:58 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...
The 42MP is a different story. It yields 18MP APS-C images so Ricoh users can still use all their APS-C glass and get excellent results. The BSI sensor should yield better color and DR.

Sony really can't afford to keep sensors to themselves. The BSI sensor from Samsung is actually very good and if Sony decides to keep the sensor for themselves they open the door for their competition. Sony needs volume to keep the cost down and the reality is that Sony isn't going to sell a million A7rII bodies. Sony needs Nikon and Ricoh as customers. Samsung is on the sidelines just praying that Sony keeps this sensor off of the market, and so is Fuji and Panasonic.
Samsung NX1 versus Pentax K-3 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

After my last post, i decided to go back to DXOmark and compare the performance of the 28mp BSI sensor in the Samsung NX1 to the 24mp non-BSI Sony sensor in the Pentax K3. (2 1/2 years old). Looking at the Measurements tab, the Pentax K3 and Samsung NXI performance is almost identical for SNR, DR, Tonal Range, and the K3 is only slightly under on Color Sensitivity. From all the noise Samsung made about their BSI sensor, i expected to see much better performance than the K3 - and it didn't prove out.

Sony is a different company than Samsung, and perhaps their BSI design has better technology; but i'm adopting a "show me" attitude on Sony BSI results. All i know so far is that it adds another 6 mp to the overall number :-) And the 50,000 and 100,000 ISO levels are "extended" levels which don't meet standard ISO levels for noise. There are a lot of things to like about the new camera, but high iso levels is probably not one of the more meaningful features, IMO.

Last edited by philbaum; 06-14-2015 at 01:08 PM.
06-14-2015, 10:27 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Sony really can't afford to keep sensors to themselves. The BSI sensor from Samsung is actually very good and if Sony decides to keep the sensor for themselves they open the door for their competition. Sony needs volume to keep the cost down and the reality is that Sony isn't going to sell a million A7rII bodies. Sony needs Nikon and Ricoh as customers. Samsung is on the sidelines just praying that Sony keeps this sensor off of the market, and so is Fuji and Panasonic.
Sony can afford to do a lot of things, and they showed it by keeping Rx100 sensor for themselves for 2 years. Most (if not all) of Sony money comes from selling smaller cellphone sensors to Apple and other phone companies. There is absolutely no chance that Pentax is using this new sensor in a camera that is about to go in large production (if not already in production) but no rumor site knew about the 42 Mp sensor. No, there was no such rumor.

You won't be seeing this sensor in another camera for an year, at least.

Plus a camera based on this sensor will not be cheap, especially given it costs more to make DSLRs than mirrorless.
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