Sony A7rII - 42MP

kadajawi · 08-18-2015, 12:05 PM - **1 Like**

Higher burst rate or 4K video, depending on your requirements. If you need large prints photos make sense, if the timing is more critical and you are ok with basically shooting JPEG (harder to edit, have to get things right from the start) then video may be the better option.

**clackers** · 08-18-2015, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

There's a ton of noise in the raw file, vignetting, IIRC also some distortion, white balance isn't saved...

And I don't mind that!

Let us post-process, making all the decisions about the compromise that's the final JPEG.

philbaum · 08-18-2015, 01:32 PM

Makes me wonder how much professional sports has influenced camera development. How many times have we all watched instant playback of key plays in volleyball, football, basketball, etc. And of course, we don't want fuzzy playbacks, we want sharp views of the instant the foot touched the out-of-bounds line

kadajawi · 08-18-2015, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by clackers

And I don't mind that!

Let us post-process, making all the decisions about the compromise that's the final JPEG.

Amen. Having the option is good. That the files are 25 MB each is a bit more problematic though, as my phone only has 16 GB (out of which maybe 13 are usable, and that is before all the other content like apps etc. that I might want to keep on my phone). In the end I have maybe 3-4 GB left. But that's very OT now... the thing to note is that smartphones are getting better, fast. For me the quality is good enough that in certain situations I'll take a shot with my smartphone instead of with my DSLR, even though I have it with me (and even around my neck). i.e. I have a 50mm on my DSLR, but need something wide angle for a moment and don't want to switch lenses. It's good enough.

philbaum · 08-19-2015, 07:42 AM

One of our club members went on an African safari. She's petite and in her 70's i guess. Took her D800 with a 70-200 lens for the animal shots; and a iphone for everything else. Makes sense.

Winder · 08-20-2015, 02:14 AM

Sony Q&A: Now that 4K’s a done deal, what’s the next big thing?

TO: <laughs> Yeah. I used to work in China and the US. I’m just two years old in the US market. I think that the US has a... the American market seems to have a bit of a different dynamism. There are lots of IT companies, software companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, taking software elements in the customer usage is getting increased in the US market, as compared to like Japan. [In the Japanese market,] people love to have a very nice, mechanical, well crafted... craftsmanship type of product, which is very much different.
The biggest challenge from the Japanese company perspective might be, how we understand the customer in the US, so we can really reflect that customer insight onto the development of a product, or even sensor technologies, and so on. So without knowing the customer, and just developing technology, it doesn’t make any sense. Knowing the customer is the biggest challenge. It’s very much software driven, compared to other Asian countries. That’s my take.
[Ed. Note: This is very interesting. We've been aware in the past how much the Japanese market is driven by product aesthetics, which include small form factors, and what might even be called "cuteness" in American parlance. Okuda-san articulates the difference in the American market as being about "software". Perhaps another way of expressing that is that the American psyche is more concerned about what a product can do and how it does it, than how it looks and feels when using it. It's not a clear dividing line, of course, because user interfaces have very strong aesthetic elements, and Americans care very much about the feel, fit, and finish of products. It's hard to describe exactly, but having spent some time in Japan, I have a strong sense of just how differently the Japanese view products, compared to Americans. I really can't articulate it, but Okuda-san's explanation resonates with my own experience.]

philbaum · 08-20-2015, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Sony Q&A: Now that 4K’s a done deal, what’s the next big thing?

TO: <laughs> Yeah. I used to work in China and the US. I’m just two years old in the US market. I think that the US has a... the American market seems to have a bit of a different dynamism. It's hard to describe exactly, but having spent some time in Japan, I have a strong sense of just how differently the Japanese view products, compared to Americans. I really can't articulate it, but Okuda-san's explanation resonates with my own experience.][/I]

Thanks for posting this. Whatever the merits of the camera, i felt a bit insulted when the K-01 came out with a designer signature on the bottom plate. But the internet and other media are layering cultures together like never before. I'm not sure that is a good thing, it just is.

Last edited by philbaum; 08-20-2015 at 09:55 AM.

Winder · 08-21-2015, 05:54 AM

https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7rii-review-and-hands-on-report/

Electronic Viewfinder

"OK, let’s be honest. This is one area where partisans come to blows – optical viwwfinders vs electronic viewfinders. I must say that big and bright optical finders are near and dear to my heart. I can’t shoot it properly if I can’t see it properly, is my motto.

But with the exception of all but a few cameras (top of the line Canon and Nikon models, and medium format cameras) most optical viewfinders suck. The EVF on the new A7RII anti-sucks. It is really good. It is bright, it is large and it refreshes quickly. Add to this the things that an EVF can do that an optical finder can’t, such as show zebras and focus peaking, and I think we’re nearing the end-game for optical finders. Yes, the one in the A7RII really is that good, and though I love the OVF on my Pentax 645z it isn’t enough to sway me. EVF’s have just about reached the point where most photographers will find them acceptable, and in many ways superior to OVFs."

The Future of Sony A Mount

"There are many photographers who are committed to the Sony A mount, the company’s DSLR cameras with Translucent Mirror Technology. There has been a question hanging in the air for a while now – since the launch of the last A camera, the SLT-A77II in May of 2014. Will there be more A-mount camera to come?

I can’t give a definitive answer, but when I met with the senior Sony executives in Portland, and asked this question, I found their responses evasive and vague. In my experience this usually means “No“, but with no one really wanting to actually say so. It may well be that the answer is yes. I just can’t be sure."

itshimitis · 08-21-2015, 08:03 AM

Japanese people evading answering question does indeed normally mean no, since there is no word in Japanese for No.

philbaum · 08-21-2015, 09:23 AM

When one puts a very high-performing sensor in a small enclosed box, plus suspend that sensor in an IBIS mode, one shouldn't be surprised with some heat issues for long bulb shooting in warm ambient conditions. Some of these issues have been reported. All it really means, i think, is that this may not satisfy some astrophotographers.

If Pentax uses this sensor for their FF, I would suspect they would be able to better mitigate some of these heat issues because they will use a bigger body for the OVF mirror.

osv · 08-21-2015, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Winder

https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7rii-review-and-hands-on-report/

"The Sony A7RII runs a neck and neck image quality race with the big Pentax(645Z), and so calling a winner is almost impossible."

not a surprise of course, but one has to wonder what the response from pentax/ricoh is going to be.

**clackers** · 08-21-2015, 04:57 PM

There have been complaints about this camera's autofocus, heating and video performance, but no consensus - early days, obviously.

Its rivals have defects of their own.

itshimitis · 08-21-2015, 05:11 PM

There were complaints about the heat in Canon's cameras during use that was why they were limited to 5 minute clips with the 5DII. And that was with 30p 720p HD. This is 4K and 30 minutes of video is a lot of shooting. People rarely use cameras like this for long uninterrupted shooting. I often wonder why I bother going on forums around the time of a release, because it's either fanboys or detractors bitching about every single little report.

I actually have the camera and am using it, though the weather has been horrid here in Wales. There is some work for Sony to do in firmware, but I am getting some reasonably decent stuff out of it, but haven't really had the opportunity to get the best out of it. I have two A mount lenses coming next week to put on to my LAEA4 - a Sony 50 f/1.4 and a Minolta 85 f/1.4. The camera is a good one and has great potential to be a fantastic one once some of the bugs are worked out in firmware. A challenge to the 645Z? On balance, I think not. Otherwise I would be selling my 645Z and lenses and getting another A7RII and still have some change left. There are some great advantages to this camera...but there are definitely some wrinkles to iron out. But that's not unusual at all.

**clackers** · 08-21-2015, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by itshimitis

...but there are definitely some wrinkles to iron out.

What are your concerns, Itshimitis?

PS Love the 645D shots you just posted.

**Rondec** · 08-22-2015, 03:04 AM

Originally posted by osv

"The Sony A7RII runs a neck and neck image quality race with the big Pentax(645Z), and so calling a winner is almost impossible."

not a surprise of course, but one has to wonder what the response from pentax/ricoh is going to be.

Why would Pentax need a response, other than releasing their own full frame camera?

People who shoot medium format do not do it just for resolution and dynamic range and color depth, although I bet when DXO Mark tests the A7RII sensor it will still be behind the 645Z in terms of SNR and dynamic range (that is assuming DXO Mark actually tests the 645Z). People shoot medium format for the glass and for the particular look they get when shooting it. I don't think the medium format market has changed much over the years. It is small, but certainly it isn't threatened by a new full frame camera, even if it has a very nice sensor.

08-21-2015, 05:54 AM	#233
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7rii-review-and-hands-on-report/ Electronic Viewfinder "OK, let’s be honest. This is one area where partisans come to blows – optical viwwfinders vs electronic viewfinders. I must say that big and bright optical finders are near and dear to my heart. I can’t shoot it properly if I can’t see it properly, is my motto. But with the exception of all but a few cameras (top of the line Canon and Nikon models, and medium format cameras) most optical viewfinders suck. The EVF on the new A7RII anti-sucks. It is really good. It is bright, it is large and it refreshes quickly. Add to this the things that an EVF can do that an optical finder can’t, such as show zebras and focus peaking, and I think we’re nearing the end-game for optical finders. Yes, the one in the A7RII really is that good, and though I love the OVF on my Pentax 645z it isn’t enough to sway me. EVF’s have just about reached the point where most photographers will find them acceptable, and in many ways superior to OVFs." The Future of Sony A Mount "There are many photographers who are committed to the Sony A mount, the company’s DSLR cameras with Translucent Mirror Technology. There has been a question hanging in the air for a while now – since the launch of the last A camera, the SLT-A77II in May of 2014. Will there be more A-mount camera to come? I can’t give a definitive answer, but when I met with the senior Sony executives in Portland, and asked this question, I found their responses evasive and vague. In my experience this usually means “No“, but with no one really wanting to actually say so. It may well be that the answer is yes. I just can’t be sure." Last edited by Winder; 08-21-2015 at 06:00 AM.

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08-18-2015, 12:05 PM - 1 Like	#226
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Higher burst rate or 4K video, depending on your requirements. If you need large prints photos make sense, if the timing is more critical and you are ok with basically shooting JPEG (harder to edit, have to get things right from the start) then video may be the better option.

08-18-2015, 01:26 PM	#227
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by kadajawi There's a ton of noise in the raw file, vignetting, IIRC also some distortion, white balance isn't saved... And I don't mind that! Let us post-process, making all the decisions about the compromise that's the final JPEG.

08-18-2015, 01:32 PM	#228
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Makes me wonder how much professional sports has influenced camera development. How many times have we all watched instant playback of key plays in volleyball, football, basketball, etc. And of course, we don't want fuzzy playbacks, we want sharp views of the instant the foot touched the out-of-bounds line

08-18-2015, 03:53 PM	#229
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by clackers And I don't mind that! Let us post-process, making all the decisions about the compromise that's the final JPEG. Amen. Having the option is good. That the files are 25 MB each is a bit more problematic though, as my phone only has 16 GB (out of which maybe 13 are usable, and that is before all the other content like apps etc. that I might want to keep on my phone). In the end I have maybe 3-4 GB left. But that's very OT now... the thing to note is that smartphones are getting better, fast. For me the quality is good enough that in certain situations I'll take a shot with my smartphone instead of with my DSLR, even though I have it with me (and even around my neck). i.e. I have a 50mm on my DSLR, but need something wide angle for a moment and don't want to switch lenses. It's good enough.

08-19-2015, 07:42 AM	#230
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	One of our club members went on an African safari. She's petite and in her 70's i guess. Took her D800 with a 70-200 lens for the animal shots; and a iphone for everything else. Makes sense.

08-20-2015, 02:14 AM	#231
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Sony Q&A: Now that 4K’s a done deal, what’s the next big thing? TO: <laughs> Yeah. I used to work in China and the US. I’m just two years old in the US market. I think that the US has a... the American market seems to have a bit of a different dynamism. There are lots of IT companies, software companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, taking software elements in the customer usage is getting increased in the US market, as compared to like Japan. [In the Japanese market,] people love to have a very nice, mechanical, well crafted... craftsmanship type of product, which is very much different. The biggest challenge from the Japanese company perspective might be, how we understand the customer in the US, so we can really reflect that customer insight onto the development of a product, or even sensor technologies, and so on. So without knowing the customer, and just developing technology, it doesn’t make any sense. Knowing the customer is the biggest challenge. It’s very much software driven, compared to other Asian countries. That’s my take. [Ed. Note: This is very interesting. We've been aware in the past how much the Japanese market is driven by product aesthetics, which include small form factors, and what might even be called "cuteness" in American parlance. Okuda-san articulates the difference in the American market as being about "software". Perhaps another way of expressing that is that the American psyche is more concerned about what a product can do and how it does it, than how it looks and feels when using it. It's not a clear dividing line, of course, because user interfaces have very strong aesthetic elements, and Americans care very much about the feel, fit, and finish of products. It's hard to describe exactly, but having spent some time in Japan, I have a strong sense of just how differently the Japanese view products, compared to Americans. I really can't articulate it, but Okuda-san's explanation resonates with my own experience.]

08-20-2015, 09:40 AM	#232
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Winder Sony Q&A: Now that 4K’s a done deal, what’s the next big thing? TO: <laughs> Yeah. I used to work in China and the US. I’m just two years old in the US market. I think that the US has a... the American market seems to have a bit of a different dynamism. It's hard to describe exactly, but having spent some time in Japan, I have a strong sense of just how differently the Japanese view products, compared to Americans. I really can't articulate it, but Okuda-san's explanation resonates with my own experience.][/I] Thanks for posting this. Whatever the merits of the camera, i felt a bit insulted when the K-01 came out with a designer signature on the bottom plate. But the internet and other media are layering cultures together like never before. I'm not sure that is a good thing, it just is. Last edited by philbaum; 08-20-2015 at 09:55 AM.

08-21-2015, 08:03 AM	#234
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	Japanese people evading answering question does indeed normally mean no, since there is no word in Japanese for No.

08-21-2015, 09:23 AM	#235
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	When one puts a very high-performing sensor in a small enclosed box, plus suspend that sensor in an IBIS mode, one shouldn't be surprised with some heat issues for long bulb shooting in warm ambient conditions. Some of these issues have been reported. All it really means, i think, is that this may not satisfy some astrophotographers. If Pentax uses this sensor for their FF, I would suspect they would be able to better mitigate some of these heat issues because they will use a bigger body for the OVF mirror.

08-21-2015, 03:41 PM	#236
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Winder https://luminous-landscape.com/sony-a7rii-review-and-hands-on-report/ "The Sony A7RII runs a neck and neck image quality race with the big Pentax(645Z), and so calling a winner is almost impossible." not a surprise of course, but one has to wonder what the response from pentax/ricoh is going to be.

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08-21-2015, 04:57 PM	#237
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	There have been complaints about this camera's autofocus, heating and video performance, but no consensus - early days, obviously. Its rivals have defects of their own.

08-21-2015, 05:11 PM	#238
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	There were complaints about the heat in Canon's cameras during use that was why they were limited to 5 minute clips with the 5DII. And that was with 30p 720p HD. This is 4K and 30 minutes of video is a lot of shooting. People rarely use cameras like this for long uninterrupted shooting. I often wonder why I bother going on forums around the time of a release, because it's either fanboys or detractors bitching about every single little report. I actually have the camera and am using it, though the weather has been horrid here in Wales. There is some work for Sony to do in firmware, but I am getting some reasonably decent stuff out of it, but haven't really had the opportunity to get the best out of it. I have two A mount lenses coming next week to put on to my LAEA4 - a Sony 50 f/1.4 and a Minolta 85 f/1.4. The camera is a good one and has great potential to be a fantastic one once some of the bugs are worked out in firmware. A challenge to the 645Z? On balance, I think not. Otherwise I would be selling my 645Z and lenses and getting another A7RII and still have some change left. There are some great advantages to this camera...but there are definitely some wrinkles to iron out. But that's not unusual at all.

08-21-2015, 05:31 PM	#239
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by itshimitis ...but there are definitely some wrinkles to iron out. What are your concerns, Itshimitis? PS Love the 645D shots you just posted.

08-22-2015, 03:04 AM	#240
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by osv "The Sony A7RII runs a neck and neck image quality race with the big Pentax(645Z), and so calling a winner is almost impossible." not a surprise of course, but one has to wonder what the response from pentax/ricoh is going to be. Why would Pentax need a response, other than releasing their own full frame camera? People who shoot medium format do not do it just for resolution and dynamic range and color depth, although I bet when DXO Mark tests the A7RII sensor it will still be behind the 645Z in terms of SNR and dynamic range (that is assuming DXO Mark actually tests the 645Z). People shoot medium format for the glass and for the particular look they get when shooting it. I don't think the medium format market has changed much over the years. It is small, but certainly it isn't threatened by a new full frame camera, even if it has a very nice sensor.