Thoughts on a "mid-size"

Sluggo · 08-03-2015, 10:37 AM

Could be this is no more than an itch for a new toy, but ...

My most used camera right now is a Fujifilm F770EXR. It does well for what it is, a compact travel camera that fits in a tiny little belt-mounted case. But there are times I'm unhappy with the image quality, and I don't use the zoom much, keeping it at the widest setting most of the time. I get much better quality from a K20D, but those (I have a pair) are usually mounted on a stereo rig that's bulky to say the least -- I don't carry that around casually, and only have it when very deliberately "committing photography" that day.

So I'm thinking about an in-between option, and these days of course there are many. To narrow it down, I'm fairly pinchy with my pennies, that is to say, mostly just interested in stuff that's been around for a little while and no longer priced at a premium. Some things on the short list:

(1) A new Pentax Q7 system. I would be all over this if there was a wide prime lens available (other than the "toy" types). The 02 zoom is just bulky enough to make the camera less pocketable than I'd like, and the 01 won't give the fun perspectives I gravitate to. But Q7/02 kits are available in the $230-250 range now and it's a pretty tempting option. Image quality ought to be a step up from the Fujifilm compact, and I would enjoy having SLR-like controls, especially manual focus.

(2) A used micro 4/3 setup with a pancake-ish wide lens, maybe a 14mm on a Lumix GF3 or GX1. I hear mixed things about the sensors and ergonomics on the cameras, but gosh, they're cheap at the moment, and a 14mm kit would be comparable in size to the Q7/02 combination.

(3) A used DA21 lens (older type, not HD) to leave mounted on one of my K20D bodies for a while. I rented a DA21 a few years ago on a family vacation and loved it, but didn't want to spend the $500+ they were going for at the time. Now I can be a good cheapskate and pick one up for $250-300. But it won't exactly make the K20D a compact camera.

Thoughts? What might you do in my place, with these tastes and about $300 burning a hole in your pocket?

wildman · 08-03-2015, 10:42 AM

Think 1" sensors?

6BQ5 · 08-03-2015, 12:40 PM

I've built a small, medium, and large system. The Q7 is my small, an Olympus M10 is my medium, and my K-3 is my large. I find the 02 and 06 zoom lenses to be relatively small considering their range. A Q7 with either of these lenses will still easily fit in the palm of your hand. I think the "smallness" would have been emphasized if the lenses were more collapsible.

**UncleVanya** · 08-03-2015, 12:41 PM

Severalsnakes has an MX-1 and loves it enough to shoot this month using it in the Singles In challenge thread. Many others have Q's and love them similarly. The reality is there are limitations but having a camera with you trumps not having it because it's too heavy / bulky etc.

The 40 XS is cheap and tiny and might give you a feel for how much you would carry the larger DSLR using a smaller lens. The FOV is not as wide so it will not mimic that aspect.

severalsnakes · 08-03-2015, 01:30 PM - **1 Like**

I do love my MX-1. I chose it over the Q system for the sheer simplification factor (no lens temptations), plus I thought the articulated screen would be handy. It's a good-looking camera, too - no shame in having it hanging around your neck since it's super handsome. It has a modest zoom, totally manual controls (including a surprisingly intuitive zoom-lever actuated manual focusing feature), and the sensor performance is excellent for the size. I shoot RAW to get the most out of the files.

My experience definitely recommends the MX-1, but it is a couple years old and there is probably better technology for less money available. Shop around!

Here's a link to my Flickr album with all of my MX-1 images: CLICK HERE. And watch that space, because I plan on putting this camera through its paces like never before for the Single in August Challenge.

Sluggo · 08-03-2015, 01:51 PM - **1 Like**

Oop. Yeah, gotta add the MX-1 to the list. Reading about it, and watching Blunty's youtube review of it just now, kinda makes me want to take my old film MX for a spin too....

More to the point, I'm starting to feel like buying all this stuff.

edited to add: @severalsnakes, I enjoyed your album, and I could never get the hang of Thursdays either.

osv · 08-03-2015, 10:32 PM

i would save up a bit more money, and get apsc with a viewfinder, preferably an evf.

trying to manual focus with the rear lcd is not a fun experience.

**UncleVanya** · 08-04-2015, 05:57 AM

Ricoh GR with 18mm lens?

shiner · 08-04-2015, 06:02 AM

Yeah! The GR would be awesome for your wide-angle pocket-able pursuits!

Sluggo · 08-04-2015, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by shiner

Yeah! The GR would be awesome for your wide-angle pocket-able pursuits!

Probably, but the APS-C version is well above the money I was talking about, and if I were to decide to spend more, it wouldn't be on something with a non-replaceable motorized extending lens. Just my little hangup there. The MX-1 also has one, but it's a less expensive camera and so I'm more comfortable with the possible disposability aspect. I appreciate the suggestion though.

**UncleVanya** · 08-04-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Sluggo

Probably, but the APS-C version is well above the money I was talking about, and if I were to decide to spend more, it wouldn't be on something with a non-replaceable motorized extending lens. Just my little hangup there. The MX-1 also has one, but it's a less expensive camera and so I'm more comfortable with the possible disposability aspect. I appreciate the suggestion though.

Not unreasonable at all. Used MX-1 should be relatively inexpensive which is a plus.

Sluggo · 08-07-2015, 04:40 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Not unreasonable at all. Used MX-1 should be relatively inexpensive which is a plus.

Welp - I might have a deal in the works for a used MX-1. Waiting to hear back from the seller now. In the meantime it's inspired me to pull out my old MX and hopefully burn through a roll of b/w film this weekend. I don't think that one has seen action for at least four years.

Sluggo · 08-15-2015, 11:37 AM - **1 Like**

Family portrait!

This isn't the one I'd originally been negotiating on; it took some digging around to find a used MX-1 that had a lens cap -- funny thing to insist on, but there it is. Eventually made the order from Amazon's customer return stock. It arrived today in great shape and I can't wait to take it on an outing.

And yes I did shoot a roll of Fomapan 200 with the blue MX last weekend. Such a nice Zen-like experience it is, whenever I can make myself slow down to use a film cam. Haven't got around to the developing yet of course.

severalsnakes · 08-26-2015, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Sluggo

Family portrait!

This isn't the one I'd originally been negotiating on; it took some digging around to find a used MX-1 that had a lens cap -- funny thing to insist on, but there it is. Eventually made the order from Amazon's customer return stock. It arrived today in great shape and I can't wait to take it on an outing.

And yes I did shoot a roll of Fomapan 200 with the blue MX last weekend. Such a nice Zen-like experience it is, whenever I can make myself slow down to use a film cam. Haven't got around to the developing yet of course.

How's the MX-1 working out? :-)

Sluggo · 08-29-2015, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by severalsnakes

How's the MX-1 working out? :-)

I haven't been able to do nearly as much shooting as I would like in the last few weeks -- haven't even developed that roll of film from the old MX yet! But the MX-1 is intriguing, and I have played with it some to get an idea of what it can and can't do. By and large it's a significant step up from the F770EXR, and I'm especially pleased with the macro capabilities.

bee on thistle

Most of my shooting these days is in 3D stereo pairs, and the MX-1 doesn't provide overlay alignment support for that, so it's a new learning curve. The trick seems to be: turn off image review entirely, use the composition grid, take the shots quickly and let the SD card catch up afterward. Some promising results already (crosseye format):

abandoned school near Perry, Iowa

thistlemania
The neck strap seems kinda dumb for a camera with no viewfinder (and I'm old enough that I need the camera some distance from my face in order to see the screen clearly), so the next thing is finding a good wrist strap for it. The Joby cinching strap seems ideal except it turns out to be a touch too wide to fit through the lug. I'll come up with something.

All in all I'm happy so far. It does impressive things for the small money it costs, and I know I'll take it places where the DSLR(s) would stay home.

Thanks for asking!

08-03-2015, 10:37 AM	#1
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774	Thoughts on a "mid-size" Could be this is no more than an itch for a new toy, but ... My most used camera right now is a Fujifilm F770EXR. It does well for what it is, a compact travel camera that fits in a tiny little belt-mounted case. But there are times I'm unhappy with the image quality, and I don't use the zoom much, keeping it at the widest setting most of the time. I get much better quality from a K20D, but those (I have a pair) are usually mounted on a stereo rig that's bulky to say the least -- I don't carry that around casually, and only have it when very deliberately "committing photography" that day. So I'm thinking about an in-between option, and these days of course there are many. To narrow it down, I'm fairly pinchy with my pennies, that is to say, mostly just interested in stuff that's been around for a little while and no longer priced at a premium. Some things on the short list: (1) A new Pentax Q7 system. I would be all over this if there was a wide prime lens available (other than the "toy" types). The 02 zoom is just bulky enough to make the camera less pocketable than I'd like, and the 01 won't give the fun perspectives I gravitate to. But Q7/02 kits are available in the $230-250 range now and it's a pretty tempting option. Image quality ought to be a step up from the Fujifilm compact, and I would enjoy having SLR-like controls, especially manual focus. (2) A used micro 4/3 setup with a pancake-ish wide lens, maybe a 14mm on a Lumix GF3 or GX1. I hear mixed things about the sensors and ergonomics on the cameras, but gosh, they're cheap at the moment, and a 14mm kit would be comparable in size to the Q7/02 combination. (3) A used DA21 lens (older type, not HD) to leave mounted on one of my K20D bodies for a while. I rented a DA21 a few years ago on a family vacation and loved it, but didn't want to spend the $500+ they were going for at the time. Now I can be a good cheapskate and pick one up for $250-300. But it won't exactly make the K20D a compact camera. Thoughts? What might you do in my place, with these tastes and about $300 burning a hole in your pocket?

08-03-2015, 01:30 PM - 1 Like	#5
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	I do love my MX-1. I chose it over the Q system for the sheer simplification factor (no lens temptations), plus I thought the articulated screen would be handy. It's a good-looking camera, too - no shame in having it hanging around your neck since it's super handsome. It has a modest zoom, totally manual controls (including a surprisingly intuitive zoom-lever actuated manual focusing feature), and the sensor performance is excellent for the size. I shoot RAW to get the most out of the files. My experience definitely recommends the MX-1, but it is a couple years old and there is probably better technology for less money available. Shop around! Here's a link to my Flickr album with all of my MX-1 images: CLICK HERE. And watch that space, because I plan on putting this camera through its paces like never before for the Single in August Challenge. Last edited by severalsnakes; 08-03-2015 at 01:35 PM.

08-03-2015, 01:51 PM - 1 Like	#6
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774 Original Poster	Oop. Yeah, gotta add the MX-1 to the list. Reading about it, and watching Blunty's youtube review of it just now, kinda makes me want to take my old film MX for a spin too.... More to the point, I'm starting to feel like buying all this stuff. edited to add: @severalsnakes, I enjoyed your album, and I could never get the hang of Thursdays either. Last edited by Sluggo; 08-03-2015 at 02:00 PM.

08-15-2015, 11:37 AM - 1 Like	#13
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774 Original Poster	MX-1 acquired Family portrait! This isn't the one I'd originally been negotiating on; it took some digging around to find a used MX-1 that had a lens cap -- funny thing to insist on, but there it is. Eventually made the order from Amazon's customer return stock. It arrived today in great shape and I can't wait to take it on an outing. And yes I did shoot a roll of Fomapan 200 with the blue MX last weekend. Such a nice Zen-like experience it is, whenever I can make myself slow down to use a film cam. Haven't got around to the developing yet of course.

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08-03-2015, 10:42 AM	#2
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Think 1" sensors?

08-03-2015, 12:40 PM	#3
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	I've built a small, medium, and large system. The Q7 is my small, an Olympus M10 is my medium, and my K-3 is my large. I find the 02 and 06 zoom lenses to be relatively small considering their range. A Q7 with either of these lenses will still easily fit in the palm of your hand. I think the "smallness" would have been emphasized if the lenses were more collapsible.

08-03-2015, 12:41 PM	#4
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Severalsnakes has an MX-1 and loves it enough to shoot this month using it in the Singles In challenge thread. Many others have Q's and love them similarly. The reality is there are limitations but having a camera with you trumps not having it because it's too heavy / bulky etc. The 40 XS is cheap and tiny and might give you a feel for how much you would carry the larger DSLR using a smaller lens. The FOV is not as wide so it will not mimic that aspect.

08-03-2015, 10:32 PM	#7
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	i would save up a bit more money, and get apsc with a viewfinder, preferably an evf. trying to manual focus with the rear lcd is not a fun experience.

08-04-2015, 05:57 AM	#8
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Ricoh GR with 18mm lens?

08-04-2015, 06:02 AM	#9
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	Yeah! The GR would be awesome for your wide-angle pocket-able pursuits!

08-04-2015, 06:46 AM	#10
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774 Original Poster	Originally posted by shiner Yeah! The GR would be awesome for your wide-angle pocket-able pursuits! Probably, but the APS-C version is well above the money I was talking about, and if I were to decide to spend more, it wouldn't be on something with a non-replaceable motorized extending lens. Just my little hangup there. The MX-1 also has one, but it's a less expensive camera and so I'm more comfortable with the possible disposability aspect. I appreciate the suggestion though.

08-04-2015, 10:04 AM	#11
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by Sluggo Probably, but the APS-C version is well above the money I was talking about, and if I were to decide to spend more, it wouldn't be on something with a non-replaceable motorized extending lens. Just my little hangup there. The MX-1 also has one, but it's a less expensive camera and so I'm more comfortable with the possible disposability aspect. I appreciate the suggestion though. Not unreasonable at all. Used MX-1 should be relatively inexpensive which is a plus.

08-07-2015, 04:40 PM - 1 Like	#12
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774 Original Poster	Originally posted by UncleVanya Not unreasonable at all. Used MX-1 should be relatively inexpensive which is a plus. Welp - I might have a deal in the works for a used MX-1. Waiting to hear back from the seller now. In the meantime it's inspired me to pull out my old MX and hopefully burn through a roll of b/w film this weekend. I don't think that one has seen action for at least four years.

08-26-2015, 02:10 PM	#14
severalsnakes Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kansas City, KS Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,612	Originally posted by Sluggo Family portrait! This isn't the one I'd originally been negotiating on; it took some digging around to find a used MX-1 that had a lens cap -- funny thing to insist on, but there it is. Eventually made the order from Amazon's customer return stock. It arrived today in great shape and I can't wait to take it on an outing. And yes I did shoot a roll of Fomapan 200 with the blue MX last weekend. Such a nice Zen-like experience it is, whenever I can make myself slow down to use a film cam. Haven't got around to the developing yet of course. How's the MX-1 working out? :-)

08-29-2015, 05:06 AM	#15
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774 Original Poster	Originally posted by severalsnakes How's the MX-1 working out? :-) I haven't been able to do nearly as much shooting as I would like in the last few weeks -- haven't even developed that roll of film from the old MX yet! But the MX-1 is intriguing, and I have played with it some to get an idea of what it can and can't do. By and large it's a significant step up from the F770EXR, and I'm especially pleased with the macro capabilities. bee on thistle Most of my shooting these days is in 3D stereo pairs, and the MX-1 doesn't provide overlay alignment support for that, so it's a new learning curve. The trick seems to be: turn off image review entirely, use the composition grid, take the shots quickly and let the SD card catch up afterward. Some promising results already (crosseye format): abandoned school near Perry, Iowa thistlemania The neck strap seems kinda dumb for a camera with no viewfinder (and I'm old enough that I need the camera some distance from my face in order to see the screen clearly), so the next thing is finding a good wrist strap for it. The Joby cinching strap seems ideal except it turns out to be a touch too wide to fit through the lug. I'll come up with something. All in all I'm happy so far. It does impressive things for the small money it costs, and I know I'll take it places where the DSLR(s) would stay home. Thanks for asking!