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08-06-2015, 10:57 AM   #1
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One Day after launch - A7RMII is sold out in US

Here's a thread on Dpreview where one soul is trying to find one A7RmII still for sale in the US - without luck
A7r-ii inventory search thread: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

The EVF A7RmII is being sold at a $200 premium over its nearest Nikon D810 OVF competitor, which are being sold at just under $3000. One store said it may be a coupla months before they get the next Sony shipment.

Some people are already complaining that the A7RmII is too heavy at 625gm. No complaints are being lodged about the D810 weighing in at 980gm which apparently is about right. The retail market has its funny side to it

It would be nice if more PF members would criticize the A7RmII for any reason, that way, those of us that are interested in buying one will have a half of chance of getting one in the next 6 months

08-06-2015, 12:43 PM   #2
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I have been itching to upgrade, but I am holding out for the Pentax full frame announcement (with detailed specs) before I spend any money.
08-06-2015, 12:56 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I put in a pre-order through B&H on June 17. I had the A7ii from Dec 1 to early July and liked it a lot but sold it to get funds for the A7Rii. I also decided to let the A7ii go because I found that I could get very similar results when using my best Pentax lenses. For Sony I had the FE 16-35, FE 24-70, Fe 55 and FE70-200. But I could get equally good results with Sigma 8-16, DA*55 and DA* 50-135 to mention just a few of the equivalent Pentax lenses. As the first A7RII user photos started coming out from Europe I realized that, although the A7Rii really does have some outstanding features I should be able to get similar or better shots from Pentax FF when it arrives. In addition I will have autofocus on all my little gem like FA and DA ltds. Although I can and have used those on the Sony FF it is just more satisfying on their native mount. So Monday I cancelled my B&H order. I am now deciding whether to sell the FE lenses or hold on to them in case Pentax does not come though and I want to get the A7Rii (which by then should be much less expensive). Finally, I just have a sentimental attachment to Pentax, developed over 35 years of use. i would go elsewhere for something clearly better for my use but A7Rii does not seem to be it. I loved the early small emount cameras for their size but, in the end, I just could not give up the wonderful Pentax lenses and rugged cameras. Sorry for the long ramble.

Last edited by Mikesul; 08-06-2015 at 01:39 PM.
08-06-2015, 01:09 PM   #4
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I'd say wait until the first wave of A7r II pre-sales pass through the channel, then (subject to exchange rates etc) prices should drop. After all, it's only 4 months to Xmas, and in between then and now there will be lots of discounts and deals.

Before too long I suspect there will also be a new FF release from Nikon, and hopefully Pentax too. Maybe both will share the same sensor as the A7R II ... The next few months could be quite interesting.

08-06-2015, 01:15 PM   #5
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Knowing they sold out , as was the case with the K-3 means little, if you don't know how many they sold. For example Henry's told me they were getting 50 K-3s and they were sold out before they got them. Given that henry's Hardly carries anything Pentax anymore, that's a lot of cameras. But, at least they had a number for me. Another guy ay small local shop told me he ordered 10 K-3s sight unseen, they all sold within a week he had 3 on back order, and he had stopped taking orders. Just to keep things in perspective. Selling out a new model is not uncommon in the camera world.

Anyway, out at the drop point today (i dropped T off with clients for a 4 day trip.) , I saw one camera and it was a Sony DSLR. Pretty cool.I would have talked other about it if she was a guy. Girls sometimes think you're hitting on them, so i didn't bother. I'm not sure if that's like totally sexist, or just totally smart.
08-06-2015, 01:52 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I put in a pre-order through B&H on June 17. I had the A7ii from Dec 1 to early July and liked it a lot but sold it to get funds for the A7Rii. I also decided to let the A7ii go because I found that I could get very similar results when using my best Pentax lenses. For Sony I had the FE 16-35, FE 24-70, Fe 55 and FE70-200.
sounds like you gave it a good shot.

manual focus is the overwhelming reason to favor sony over an ovf camera; if you are using af for everything and you don't care about seeing the shot exposure before you take the photo, it's more difficult to justify sony.

and shooting things in auto mode = the majority of the market, by a solid margin i'd guess.

many of us sony owners made the assumption that the a7rii would continue mapping the evf pixels directly to the sensor pixels, as in, a7r has higher evf magnification than the a7ii, something like 14.4x vs. 12.?x

but the max a7rii magnification level looks like it's at 12.?x, and there are scattered complaints about the evf p.q. at magnification, while some people think that it's fine.

if you are into mf, this is a big unanswered question, but if you shoot auto, sounds like it won't matter.
08-06-2015, 03:13 PM   #7
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Manual focus has always been a big attraction for me with Sony e-mount. I have been using e-mount cameras since the NEX 7 and generally have found the cameras very useful. I have used them for manual focus a lot and see that as one of their most significant features. However, the A7Rii, in the end, just doesn't seem worth it right now. Autofocus is important for many uses so excellent focusing aids are just not enough when I already have a very nice selection of PK mount glass. I am among those who would like the Pentax FF to be mirrorless K-mount but I know that is very unlikely. I will probably sell my FE 24-70, 55 and 70-200 to help fund whatever Pentax does offer us.

08-06-2015, 05:07 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
SNIP...manual focus is the overwhelming reason to favor sony over an ovf camera; if you are using af for everything and you don't care about seeing the shot exposure before you take the photo, it's more difficult to justify sony...SNIP
All mirrorless cameras have one AF advantage over DSLR - no need to calibrate lenses for differences between the image sensor plane and AF sensor plane.
08-06-2015, 06:51 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
All mirrorless cameras have one AF advantage over DSLR - no need to calibrate lenses for differences between the image sensor plane and AF sensor plane.
I don't have a single lens that requires calibration, so I guess they don't have any advantages for me.
08-06-2015, 06:59 PM   #10
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I really like my A7II and the 55mm FE. I also really like my Pentax K-3. I know Ricoh is going to put an excellent sensor in to the FF body. The question marks I have is will the AF be a big enough step forward and will the lenses be able to compete with lenses like the 55mm FE. By the end of the year I hope to be down to one system. I'm hoping it will be a Ricoh FF with some new HD D- FA LTD glass, but it might be a Sony A-9 and with Zeiss Batis glass. Who knows. The new Sony/Zeiss glass is attractive. IQ of the modern designs is very good. Ricoh has a lot of catching up to do.

Last edited by Winder; 08-06-2015 at 07:14 PM.
08-06-2015, 08:20 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Ricoh has a lot of catching up to do.
Part of the problem with the Ricoh/Pentax FF is they are required by consumers to catch-up with everyone - with a rampaging Sony, and with every desirable feature of Canon and Nikon's DSLR's too (their AF, their lenses, their support, their distribution and marketing). It's a big ask.

I'd say 'catching-up' is doable by Ricoh, but like with Sony's evolution of full-frame E mount, it will take some time and a lot of effort to make an impact on consumers and the FF market. After all, Sony has now released 5 FE bodies in less than two years (!), not to mention issued a dozen or so new Sony FE lenses, but despite Sony's assault, Nikon and Canon still rule the FF market, particularly the pro space, by a big margin.
08-07-2015, 04:28 AM   #12
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I'm always suspicious of people who think they know what people are required by consumers to do. Ricoh will make an impact with their FF the same way they made an impact with the K-3. By selling a body that works with previous incarnations of Pentax lenses, which still support professional work. Pentax has released the k-3, K-3II, K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 so 5 K mount bodies in the last 2 years.You vastly underestimate the effect of Sony's lack of glass, in terms of cutting into Pentax, Canon or Nikon's market share. I own more native mount lenses that are available for Sony, and they didn't cost me an area a leg.
08-07-2015, 08:26 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm always suspicious of people who think they know what people are required by consumers to do. Ricoh will make an impact with their FF the same way they made an impact with the K-3. By selling a body that works with previous incarnations of Pentax lenses, which still support professional work. Pentax has released the k-3, K-3II, K-50, K-S1 and K-S2 so 5 K mount bodies in the last 2 years.You vastly underestimate the effect of Sony's lack of glass, in terms of cutting into Pentax, Canon or Nikon's market share. I own more native mount lenses that are available for Sony, and they didn't cost me an area a leg.
You may own many lenses, but you happen to be a very small minority of the market. I'm not vastly underestimating anything, because I haven't estimated anything in the first place. The A7rII with AF adapter for Canon focuses surprisingly fast. Sony has done a great job of targeting Canon customers and attracting the HD video users who use manual focus most of the time anyway. It doesn't matter how many APS-C bodies Ricoh has produced in the last few years. We are talking about FF bodies and lenses.

Ricoh has said in interviews that they plan on competing directly with Canon and Nikon. The Pentax ambassadors have reiterated that point. IT really doesn't matter how many legacy K-mount lenses you have sitting on a shelf. Ricoh can't compete at the upper level without a major update across their entire line and they don't have the ability to transition customers over from Canon with adapters like Sony does.

If you look on sites like Flikr you will see Sony A7 users have a very diverse collection of lenses for different mounts.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jayhawk/albums

I think you underestimate the creativity of photographers when they can cherry pick the best lenses for different systems and achieve great results. The best body you can buy for Leica glass happens to be a Sony A7rII. For Ricoh, native K-mount glass will be much more important than it is for Sony. Yes, Sony needs to fill out the line-up, but because of the mount flexibility they can take their time. Hopefully Ricoh has copied Fuji and is prepared to launch a lot of high quality glass specifically designed for the new FF sensor.
08-07-2015, 08:31 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm always suspicious of people who think they know what people are required by consumers to do.
i'm always suspicious of people who don't understand how market forces shape the decisions that companies make.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ricoh will make an impact with their FF the same way they made an impact with the K-3.
last i heard, we don't even know what the mp count of the camera is going to be?

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
By selling a body that works with previous incarnations of Pentax lenses, which still support professional work.
the minor market share that pentax had 10 years ago has largely disappeared, so what you are talking about is pentax ff buyers robbing market share from pentax crop buyers.

the market won't respond to yet another 24mp ff camera, pentax needs to hit a home run here, something that is high tech yet very cost effective, because cheap is the niche that they live in.

things like pixel shifting aren't going to be enough.
08-07-2015, 08:37 AM   #15
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I do think in the end, people buy based on glass. Maybe Sony will come out with a k mount adapter that includes an autofocus motor, but I sort of doubt that will happen. Seems like it would be a lot easier to adapt and auto focus lenses that have i-lens motors.

The presence or lack of glass that is usable without adapters is what most photographers look for when buying a new camera.
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