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08-17-2015, 12:34 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
Yeah, ok this shows what the camera can do theoretically under test conditions. How much does it tell you about the camera in the real world? Naff all.
There is something to be said for reproducibility by multiple observers under controlled conditions. Granted, in a medium as subjective as photography it's only a small part of the picture and it's easy for it to be grossly misused (whether accidentally or by design). But there is room for it as a comparative tool on a level playing field, so long as you understand the limitations. The problems are due to people who don't.

08-17-2015, 12:36 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
There is something to be said for reproducibility by multiple observers under controlled conditions. Granted, in a medium as subjective as photography it's only a small part of the picture and it's easy for it to be grossly misused (whether accidentally or by design). But there is room for it as a comparative tool on a level playing field, so long as you understand the limitations. The problems are due to people who don't.
To me they fuel the fanboi arguments you see on every comment board shortly after a new camera's release without fuelling what a camera is there for - to take pictures. Too many arguments between gear heads that own the equipment but never print the results...

Plus how many times in your photographic career are you going to come across this exact situation - lighting, objects etc. I don't ever expect to come into contact with this set up in everyday photography personally. So I see very little practical use for it
08-17-2015, 02:32 PM   #18
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Lab tests comparing high res sensors don't do much for me. They are informative, of course, but don't make me feel like buying camera X over camera Y. Not as much as stuff like sensor comparisons of high-ISO performance, which I can immediately grasp the utility of.

However I certainly do feel 'the power of a high resolution sensor' when I see the work of photographers doing work where good extra detail really contributes to the subject.

For example I always feel a strong urge to buy a D810 whenever I browse the work of this D800 shooting Russian photographer who does a lot of aerial photography, and also commissioned industrial photography (shipbuilding, aircraft assembly, space port construction etc). Also when I see some landscapes printed large, and product photography, I can also appreciate high resolution.
08-17-2015, 05:51 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Obviously if you have 8 versus 20 megapixel, then I probably would take 20 megapixels and deal with consequences.
Then that solves the dilemma, DR isn't everything.

---------- Post added 08-18-15 at 10:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
The Issue I have with the 5DSr RAW samples is that they were taken with the FE 50mm compact macro. Which isn't that great on the resolving end of things.
Although the 50mm f/2.5 macro is an older lens design, like the Pentax-SMC 50mm f/2.5 - they have common optical design elements, and both perform quite well when stopped down, even at f/2.5 they offer performance that is in ways superior to their faster f/1.4~f/1.8 brethren. Though I have to say I agree, they should have tested with more current lenses...but as far as EF mount 50mm lenses go, they could have done worse.


Last edited by Digitalis; 08-17-2015 at 06:01 PM.
08-17-2015, 10:04 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Although the 50mm f/2.5 macro is an older lens design, like the Pentax-SMC 50mm f/2.5 - they have common optical design elements, and both perform quite well when stopped down, even at f/2.5 they offer performance that is in ways superior to their faster f/1.4~f/1.8 brethren. Though I have to say I agree, they should have tested with more current lenses...but as far as EF mount 50mm lenses go, they could have done worse.




Personally, this is what they should have tested the 5DSr with.
In fact, in one case, Photozone tested several Canon zoom lenses that effectively double the performance score of the 50mm compact macro lens.
And so in this regard I'd say the 5DSr RAW studio testing results could have proven to be far better than what is shown here. :/

Canon EF 24-105mm @ 40mm, 3600+ score
Canon EF 24-70mm f/4 USM L IS @ 40mm, 3500+ score
Tamron AF 24-70mm f/2.8 SP Di USD VC @ 50mm+, 3600+ score
Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II, 3800+ score

That said, with this in mind, I'm thinking the 5DSr could potentially match the 645z with good glass insofar as resolution goes.

Last edited by JohnBee; 08-17-2015 at 10:18 PM.
08-17-2015, 11:04 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote



Personally, this is what they should have tested the 5DSr with.
In fact, in one case, Photozone tested several Canon zoom lenses that effectively double the performance score of the 50mm compact macro lens.
And so in this regard I'd say the 5DSr RAW studio testing results could have proven to be far better than what is shown here. :/

Canon EF 24-105mm @ 40mm, 3600+ score
Canon EF 24-70mm f/4 USM L IS @ 40mm, 3500+ score
Tamron AF 24-70mm f/2.8 SP Di USD VC @ 50mm+, 3600+ score
Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II, 3800+ score

That said, with this in mind, I'm thinking the 5DSr could potentially match the 645z with good glass insofar as resolution goes.
They have tested the 5drs and the 24 1.4 art
08-17-2015, 11:09 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
They have tested the 5drs and the 24 1.4 art
Holy crap batman, those scores!
I wonder what the 35/1.4 A would have looked like - better/worst etc.
I also wonder how well it would do in corner resolution. This is a huge topic for myself for landscape photography.

08-17-2015, 11:20 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Holy crap batman, those scores!
I wonder what the 35/1.4 A would have looked like - better/worst etc.
I also wonder how well it would do in corner resolution. This is a huge topic for myself for landscape photography.
I just picked up the 35 1.4 in Nikon and I like it
I think the 35 would score a little better and I find it better in the corners right from the start than the 24
on nikon

on canon


I don't think that one could match the 645z but one would get darn close and still have the extra $ to pick up
a zeiss Otus 55 or 85
08-18-2015, 12:12 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I don't think that one could match the 645z but one would get darn close and still have the extra $ to pick up
a zeiss Otus 55 or 85
If you could afford it, would you get an Otus 55 or a Sigma 35/1.4 for landscape photography?
I'm thinking a 55 may not be wide enough and may require some stitching to pull off.
08-18-2015, 12:44 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Photozone tested several Canon zoom lenses that effectively double the performance score of the 50mm compact macro lens
Are you aware that Photozone hasn't tested the EF50mm f/2.5 macro on a full format sensor, are you also aware that photozone tested the 35mm f/1.4 art on a full format sensor?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
They have tested the 5drs and the 24 1.4 art
i'm betting now they wished they hadn't.
08-18-2015, 01:07 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Holy crap batman, those scores!
I wonder what the 35/1.4 A would have looked like - better/worst etc.
I also wonder how well it would do in corner resolution. This is a huge topic for myself for landscape photography.
Where are the landscape images? All I see is charts. As I said charts are for gear heads who want to do photographic willy waving without actually taking real images. The cameras sit in a cabinet as a trophy rather than a real tool. Never to be used as they need to be kept pristine in order to have maximum value against the next 'big thing'.
08-18-2015, 01:11 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
charts are for gear heads who want to do photographic willy waving.....
That is a mental image I could have done without.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
don't think that one could match the 645z but one would get darn close
The pentax lenses for the digital 645 cameras are remarkably consistent across the frame, with a few exceptions (SMC 33-55mm f4.5, SMC 55-110mm f/5.6 and the 45mm f/2.8). The Leica S lenses are fantastic, even the basic 70mm aspherical at its wide f/2.5 aperture - which is no small feat on medium format.


Leica S2 - Leica-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH (NON-CS) @ f/6.3 1/250th ISO 320

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-18-2015 at 01:24 AM.
08-18-2015, 01:17 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Are you aware that Photozone hasn't tested the EF50mm f/2.5 macro on a full format sensor, are you also aware that photozone tested the 35mm f/1.4 art on a full format sensor?
Yes, that's true.
However, since they tested both the EF50/2.5 macro and Sigma 351.4 | A on APSC, I'd say we have somewhat of a baseline to consider.

My gripe with Photozone is that the published scores can be very misleading in that they vary based on resolution.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
i'm betting now they wished they hadn't.
Why is that?
08-18-2015, 01:26 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That is a mental image I could have done without.
Sorry about that. I see symptoms of this practice now on websites of second hand camera retailers. Nikon D800Es with fewer than 1000 actuations, many with fewer than 500. One in particular in London at Aperture that was 'like new' and only had 30 yes 30 actuations...

They should bring back top trumps then people could save themselves some money comparing specs.

Last edited by itshimitis; 08-18-2015 at 01:38 AM.
08-18-2015, 01:29 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Why is that?
It's rather bad for a 24mm lens, I can think of several lenses in that focal range that are more consistent across the frame than that. With a noticeable resolving power bias in the center of the frame -24mm lenses are for landscape work, consistent IQ across the frame should have been a design goal. And don't give me "it's a portrait lens, it doesn't need to be sharp in the corners" rubbish. The FA77 f/1.8 @ f/5.6 Limited beats the crap out of nearly all portrait lenses in its class* - and sharpness wasn't the central ideal of the design of the FA77.


QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
However, since they tested both the EF50/2.5 macro and Sigma 351.4 | A on APSC, I'd say we have somewhat of a baseline to consider.
There is a big difference between f/1.4 on full 35mm format and f/1.4 on APS-C - The slower 50mm f/2.5 lens will be more consistent across the frame than the f/1.4 lens. The reason for this is the simple economics of slower lenses - they only need smaller lens elements, are easier to correct, they are light.

*the FA*85mm beats everything else, and gives Zeiss, Voigtlander, and Leica a real run for their money IMO

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-18-2015 at 01:39 AM.
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