Samsung Getting out of the ILC Business?

D1N0 · 11-07-2015, 08:42 AM

Sluttsalg in Norway: Norwegian camera store stops selling Samsung cameras | Photo Rumors Pretty good deal, ls than a thousand € for a NX-1 with kit lens.

kadajawi · 11-11-2015, 07:44 AM

Samsung NX1 officially dead - Samsung announce complete discontinuation in Europe - EOSHD

This is really, really sad. Samsung had the money, the brand name and the financial backings to become a major player and shake up the establishment. But until recently they haven't produced anything interesting, worthwhile. Now they finally have, and they pull the plug, even saying competitors have better cameras. What the hell? Don't they realize that the camera business is hard to break in, but it is possible, as Pentax had to learn some time ago?

The best possible outcome is that Samsung isn't fed up with the camera business, but that they have only realized that with their NX mount they will take forever to establish themselves (too few lenses, no one has their lenses yet, ... it's just not a very attractive system, despite their great bodies). And, if I may dream... what if Samsung remembers Pentax? I mean, Canon and Nikon are too big, they wouldn't want someone else producing a camera for their mounts. Sony is their main competitor. mFT would certainly be an option, but their sensors are a bit small, and mFT is slightly crowded too (with Panasonic, Olympus and it seems DJI entering the market too?).

Pentax however has been a partner before, they have a nice selection of lenses that can nevertheless be extended. Pentax has something to benefit too. What if Samsung, in turn for the permission to use the K mount (which allows APS-C and FF cameras) gave Pentax access to Samsung tech? Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to. Samsung might also use the SR system, improve on it and share with Pentax. Pentax could be doing DSLRs for now, while Samsung does mirrorless cameras. The K mount would be extended by a mK mount, which is identical, just closer to the sensor. A simple, mechanical adapter would be all that's needed to give full functionality. Eventually Pentax too could start making mirrorless cameras, and Pentax users would have a couple of dedicated Samsung/Pentax mK lenses already they could easily acquire.

Anyway, if the NX1 keeps dropping in price enough (with kit lens) I might get one. To get me through the time until Pentax decides to create a good camera again. Only the lack of SR is what disturbs me in the NX1...

mecrox · 11-11-2015, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Samsung NX1 officially dead - Samsung announce complete discontinuation in Europe - EOSHD

This is really, really sad. Samsung had the money, the brand name and the financial backings to become a major player and shake up the establishment. But until recently they haven't produced anything interesting, worthwhile. Now they finally have, and they pull the plug, even saying competitors have better cameras. What the hell? Don't they realize that the camera business is hard to break in, but it is possible, as Pentax had to learn some time ago?

The best possible outcome is that Samsung isn't fed up with the camera business, but that they have only realized that with their NX mount they will take forever to establish themselves (too few lenses, no one has their lenses yet, ... it's just not a very attractive system, despite their great bodies). And, if I may dream... what if Samsung remembers Pentax? I mean, Canon and Nikon are too big, they wouldn't want someone else producing a camera for their mounts. Sony is their main competitor. mFT would certainly be an option, but their sensors are a bit small, and mFT is slightly crowded too (with Panasonic, Olympus and it seems DJI entering the market too?).

Pentax however has been a partner before, they have a nice selection of lenses that can nevertheless be extended. Pentax has something to benefit too. What if Samsung, in turn for the permission to use the K mount (which allows APS-C and FF cameras) gave Pentax access to Samsung tech? Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to. Samsung might also use the SR system, improve on it and share with Pentax. Pentax could be doing DSLRs for now, while Samsung does mirrorless cameras. The K mount would be extended by a mK mount, which is identical, just closer to the sensor. A simple, mechanical adapter would be all that's needed to give full functionality. Eventually Pentax too could start making mirrorless cameras, and Pentax users would have a couple of dedicated Samsung/Pentax mK lenses already they could easily acquire.

Anyway, if the NX1 keeps dropping in price enough (with kit lens) I might get one. To get me through the time until Pentax decides to create a good camera again. Only the lack of SR is what disturbs me in the NX1...

Much consumer electronics involves items with a short life, fast turnover and minimal support. When a new model comes out the old one is simply dumped, abandoned, no longer supported. There is no "system" to build up. This is not what camera companies are about, but maybe it is what Samsung are about, or want to be.

audiobomber · 11-11-2015, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to.

Why are Samsung and Fuji sensors so commonly overrated? Samsung's BSI sensor finally managed to catch up to Sony. It does not surpass the 24mp Sony sensor, and we're due for a new Sony APS-C in the next few months, which will again pull ahead.

The NX500 sensor is rated at 87 by DXOMark, same as the D7200. The NX1 scores 83, vs. 80 for the K-3 and 82 for the a6000, where 5 points equals 1/3 of a stop. These are trivial differences, more to do with design implementation differences than sensor quality.

D1N0 · 11-11-2015, 08:48 AM

Yet another nail in the NX-coffin. Samsung probably has something up their sleeve but what it might be?

Originally posted by samsung:

We will continue to thoroughly evaluate market conditions and will make further adjustments to maintain our competitiveness in emerging Camera categories.”

rawr · 11-11-2015, 09:26 AM

When I read Samsung say: 'We will continue to thoroughly evaluate market conditions ...' it immediately brought to mind the stuff we used to hear from Pentax whenever they were asked about their FF plans.

The Samsung move highlights how tough business can be in competitive markets. Whole business units can be killed overnight without even a press release.

Luckily, Pentax still seem to be moving forward with their FF ... fingers crossed.

surfar · 11-11-2015, 02:42 PM

The best mirrorless cameras

Sony 5...Samsung 3...Panasonic/Leica 1

Doundounba · 11-11-2015, 03:31 PM

Count me in as tempted to pick up an NX1/NX500 on the cheap if/when they are discontinued...

**clackers** · 11-11-2015, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by neostyles

You guys this isnt going to happen. Seems like there are alot of people here are hoping for this to be true so pentax has less competition or something. None of these rumors exactly come from credible sources. Samsung has already confirmed that its not true. I find the insinuations here that sony will be next amusing though,

Enough said on this gentleman's pronouncements.

surfar · 11-11-2015, 04:02 PM

NX500 is awesome....Facebook compresses images a lot but if you look at the NX500 user group there, then you will see some great shots

kadajawi · 11-11-2015, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

Much consumer electronics involves items with a short life, fast turnover and minimal support. When a new model comes out the old one is simply dumped, abandoned, no longer supported. There is no "system" to build up. This is not what camera companies are about, but maybe it is what Samsung are about, or want to be.

But... Pentax dumps a camera on the market. That is the last time the firmware got any new functionality. Bugs may be fixed (or aren't...), maybe they will add support for a new Pentax product. But that is it. Yes. There are some rare occurences of minor updates, mostly shortly after release, but most of them happened long time ago.

Ever since the NX1 was released it keeps getting firmware updates. Like monthly or so. And these updates improve functionality. They add new stuff, improve what is already there. And sometimes quite significantly. Pentax would keep new functions for the next camera, Samsung doesn't.

Likewise Sony. Sony adds new functionality. Panasonic and Olympus do. But Pentax? No. Canon and Nikon are not so likely too, but Pentax is terrible at it. Why are the more consumer electronics focused brands so much better than the traditional camera brands?

http://matteverglade.com/cameras/nx-firmware/

Click on the NX1 there to see the change log throughout the updates. Each firmware update adds more stuff than a new Pentax model (K-3 II for example) does. And some really useful things, too.

itshimitis · 11-11-2015, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Enough said on this gentleman's pronouncements.

I've had my differences with neostyles but for the love of humanity, do grow the heck up.

I'll quote the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (partly because I studied him at uni, and partly because I'm in Denmark at the moment):

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

**clackers** · 11-11-2015, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by itshimitis

I've had my differences with neostyles but for the love of humanity, do grow the heck up.

I'll quote the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (partly because I studied him at uni, and partly because I'm in Denmark at the moment):

“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Itshimitis, he has the right to make as many outlandish statements as he likes.

The other members, whether Scandinavian existentialists or not, have the right to call BS on them.

That's how it works.

audiobomber · 11-11-2015, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

But... Pentax dumps a camera on the market. That is the last time the firmware got any new functionality. Bugs may be fixed (or aren't...), maybe they will add support for a new Pentax product. But that is it. Yes. There are some rare occurences of minor updates, mostly shortly after release, but most of them happened long time ago.

Ever since the NX1 was released it keeps getting firmware updates. Like monthly or so. And these updates improve functionality. They add new stuff, improve what is already there. And sometimes quite significantly. Pentax would keep new functions for the next camera, Samsung doesn't.Likewise Sony. Sony adds new functionality. Panasonic and Olympus do. But Pentax? No. Canon and Nikon are not so likely too, but Pentax is terrible at it. Why are the more consumer electronics focused brands so much better than the traditional camera brands?

Samsung NX Camera Firmware | Matt Everglade

Click on the NX1 there to see the change log throughout the updates. Each firmware update adds more stuff than a new Pentax model (K-3 II for example) does. And some really useful things, too.

Why are you even here? You are clearly anti-Pentax. Pentax releases finished cameras, they don't need endless firmware updates. Sony, Fuji and Samsung do firmware updates because they release flawed cameras, then try to make up for it. Especially with auto-focus. MILC AF has constantly been playing catch-up. AF on the NX1 was a joke when it was released.

Doundounba · 11-11-2015, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Sony, Fuji and Samsung do firmware updates because they release flawed cameras, then try to make up for it.

Firmware updates are an area where interesting things have been happening outside of Pentax-land, AFAICT. The latest NX1 update optimized buffer use in order to increase the maximum shot count while shooting at 15fps (from 70 to 90 shots in JPG, and from 20 to 25 shots in RAW). That's reasonably cool and definitely not just a bug fix - not like 70 shots at 15fps (and 28MP) was lackluster. I believe Fuji have added eye-detection auto-focus as a firmware update. That's a pretty major feature. Unless I am mistaken, recently Olympus added focus stacking and focus bracketing to the E-M1 via firmware update. That's incredibly cool, IMHO. Not to say that there haven't also been lots of bug fixes - which means there were lots of bugs. But why not also give credit where credit is due?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Getting the most out of the Q series	CWRailman	Pentax Q	23	04-24-2015 08:59 PM
Getting the most out of a $25 Vivitar 28mm lens	ismaelg	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	14	04-23-2015 07:27 AM
Samsung's mobile phone business to absorb Samsung Digital Imaging?	Tommy	Pentax News and Rumors	2	09-30-2009 08:46 AM
Getting the best out of the sigma 10-20mm	amicah22	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	33	04-06-2009 01:28 AM
Getting the most out of my K20D	shadowraven	Pentax DSLR Discussion	19	01-29-2009 04:35 AM

11-07-2015, 08:42 AM	#106
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Sluttsalg in Norway: Norwegian camera store stops selling Samsung cameras \| Photo Rumors Pretty good deal, ls than a thousand € for a NX-1 with kit lens.

11-11-2015, 07:44 AM	#107
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Samsung NX1 officially dead - Samsung announce complete discontinuation in Europe - EOSHD This is really, really sad. Samsung had the money, the brand name and the financial backings to become a major player and shake up the establishment. But until recently they haven't produced anything interesting, worthwhile. Now they finally have, and they pull the plug, even saying competitors have better cameras. What the hell? Don't they realize that the camera business is hard to break in, but it is possible, as Pentax had to learn some time ago? The best possible outcome is that Samsung isn't fed up with the camera business, but that they have only realized that with their NX mount they will take forever to establish themselves (too few lenses, no one has their lenses yet, ... it's just not a very attractive system, despite their great bodies). And, if I may dream... what if Samsung remembers Pentax? I mean, Canon and Nikon are too big, they wouldn't want someone else producing a camera for their mounts. Sony is their main competitor. mFT would certainly be an option, but their sensors are a bit small, and mFT is slightly crowded too (with Panasonic, Olympus and it seems DJI entering the market too?). Pentax however has been a partner before, they have a nice selection of lenses that can nevertheless be extended. Pentax has something to benefit too. What if Samsung, in turn for the permission to use the K mount (which allows APS-C and FF cameras) gave Pentax access to Samsung tech? Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to. Samsung might also use the SR system, improve on it and share with Pentax. Pentax could be doing DSLRs for now, while Samsung does mirrorless cameras. The K mount would be extended by a mK mount, which is identical, just closer to the sensor. A simple, mechanical adapter would be all that's needed to give full functionality. Eventually Pentax too could start making mirrorless cameras, and Pentax users would have a couple of dedicated Samsung/Pentax mK lenses already they could easily acquire. Anyway, if the NX1 keeps dropping in price enough (with kit lens) I might get one. To get me through the time until Pentax decides to create a good camera again. Only the lack of SR is what disturbs me in the NX1...

11-11-2015, 08:03 AM	#108
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by kadajawi Samsung NX1 officially dead - Samsung announce complete discontinuation in Europe - EOSHD This is really, really sad. Samsung had the money, the brand name and the financial backings to become a major player and shake up the establishment. But until recently they haven't produced anything interesting, worthwhile. Now they finally have, and they pull the plug, even saying competitors have better cameras. What the hell? Don't they realize that the camera business is hard to break in, but it is possible, as Pentax had to learn some time ago? The best possible outcome is that Samsung isn't fed up with the camera business, but that they have only realized that with their NX mount they will take forever to establish themselves (too few lenses, no one has their lenses yet, ... it's just not a very attractive system, despite their great bodies). And, if I may dream... what if Samsung remembers Pentax? I mean, Canon and Nikon are too big, they wouldn't want someone else producing a camera for their mounts. Sony is their main competitor. mFT would certainly be an option, but their sensors are a bit small, and mFT is slightly crowded too (with Panasonic, Olympus and it seems DJI entering the market too?). Pentax however has been a partner before, they have a nice selection of lenses that can nevertheless be extended. Pentax has something to benefit too. What if Samsung, in turn for the permission to use the K mount (which allows APS-C and FF cameras) gave Pentax access to Samsung tech? Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to. Samsung might also use the SR system, improve on it and share with Pentax. Pentax could be doing DSLRs for now, while Samsung does mirrorless cameras. The K mount would be extended by a mK mount, which is identical, just closer to the sensor. A simple, mechanical adapter would be all that's needed to give full functionality. Eventually Pentax too could start making mirrorless cameras, and Pentax users would have a couple of dedicated Samsung/Pentax mK lenses already they could easily acquire. Anyway, if the NX1 keeps dropping in price enough (with kit lens) I might get one. To get me through the time until Pentax decides to create a good camera again. Only the lack of SR is what disturbs me in the NX1... Much consumer electronics involves items with a short life, fast turnover and minimal support. When a new model comes out the old one is simply dumped, abandoned, no longer supported. There is no "system" to build up. This is not what camera companies are about, but maybe it is what Samsung are about, or want to be.

11-11-2015, 08:03 AM	#109
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by kadajawi Samsung screens, Samsung sensors, Samsung processors? All of these, especially the processors are light years ahead of what Pentax currently has access to. Why are Samsung and Fuji sensors so commonly overrated? Samsung's BSI sensor finally managed to catch up to Sony. It does not surpass the 24mp Sony sensor, and we're due for a new Sony APS-C in the next few months, which will again pull ahead. The NX500 sensor is rated at 87 by DXOMark, same as the D7200. The NX1 scores 83, vs. 80 for the K-3 and 82 for the a6000, where 5 points equals 1/3 of a stop. These are trivial differences, more to do with design implementation differences than sensor quality.

11-11-2015, 08:48 AM	#110
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Yet another nail in the NX-coffin. Samsung probably has something up their sleeve but what it might be? Originally posted by samsung: We will continue to thoroughly evaluate market conditions and will make further adjustments to maintain our competitiveness in emerging Camera categories.”

11-11-2015, 09:26 AM	#111
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	When I read Samsung say: 'We will continue to thoroughly evaluate market conditions ...' it immediately brought to mind the stuff we used to hear from Pentax whenever they were asked about their FF plans. The Samsung move highlights how tough business can be in competitive markets. Whole business units can be killed overnight without even a press release. Luckily, Pentax still seem to be moving forward with their FF ... fingers crossed.

11-11-2015, 02:42 PM	#112
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	The best mirrorless cameras Sony 5...Samsung 3...Panasonic/Leica 1

11-11-2015, 03:31 PM	#113
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Count me in as tempted to pick up an NX1/NX500 on the cheap if/when they are discontinued...

11-11-2015, 04:00 PM	#114
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by neostyles You guys this isnt going to happen. Seems like there are alot of people here are hoping for this to be true so pentax has less competition or something. None of these rumors exactly come from credible sources. Samsung has already confirmed that its not true. I find the insinuations here that sony will be next amusing though, Enough said on this gentleman's pronouncements.

11-11-2015, 04:02 PM	#115
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	NX500 is awesome....Facebook compresses images a lot but if you look at the NX500 user group there, then you will see some great shots

11-11-2015, 04:17 PM	#116
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by mecrox Much consumer electronics involves items with a short life, fast turnover and minimal support. When a new model comes out the old one is simply dumped, abandoned, no longer supported. There is no "system" to build up. This is not what camera companies are about, but maybe it is what Samsung are about, or want to be. But... Pentax dumps a camera on the market. That is the last time the firmware got any new functionality. Bugs may be fixed (or aren't...), maybe they will add support for a new Pentax product. But that is it. Yes. There are some rare occurences of minor updates, mostly shortly after release, but most of them happened long time ago. Ever since the NX1 was released it keeps getting firmware updates. Like monthly or so. And these updates improve functionality. They add new stuff, improve what is already there. And sometimes quite significantly. Pentax would keep new functions for the next camera, Samsung doesn't. Likewise Sony. Sony adds new functionality. Panasonic and Olympus do. But Pentax? No. Canon and Nikon are not so likely too, but Pentax is terrible at it. Why are the more consumer electronics focused brands so much better than the traditional camera brands? http://matteverglade.com/cameras/nx-firmware/ Click on the NX1 there to see the change log throughout the updates. Each firmware update adds more stuff than a new Pentax model (K-3 II for example) does. And some really useful things, too.

11-11-2015, 05:40 PM	#117
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	Originally posted by clackers Enough said on this gentleman's pronouncements. I've had my differences with neostyles but for the love of humanity, do grow the heck up. I'll quote the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (partly because I studied him at uni, and partly because I'm in Denmark at the moment): “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

11-11-2015, 06:19 PM	#118
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by itshimitis I've had my differences with neostyles but for the love of humanity, do grow the heck up. I'll quote the Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard (partly because I studied him at uni, and partly because I'm in Denmark at the moment): “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.” Itshimitis, he has the right to make as many outlandish statements as he likes. The other members, whether Scandinavian existentialists or not, have the right to call BS on them. That's how it works.

11-11-2015, 06:47 PM	#119
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by kadajawi But... Pentax dumps a camera on the market. That is the last time the firmware got any new functionality. Bugs may be fixed (or aren't...), maybe they will add support for a new Pentax product. But that is it. Yes. There are some rare occurences of minor updates, mostly shortly after release, but most of them happened long time ago. Ever since the NX1 was released it keeps getting firmware updates. Like monthly or so. And these updates improve functionality. They add new stuff, improve what is already there. And sometimes quite significantly. Pentax would keep new functions for the next camera, Samsung doesn't.Likewise Sony. Sony adds new functionality. Panasonic and Olympus do. But Pentax? No. Canon and Nikon are not so likely too, but Pentax is terrible at it. Why are the more consumer electronics focused brands so much better than the traditional camera brands? Samsung NX Camera Firmware \| Matt Everglade Click on the NX1 there to see the change log throughout the updates. Each firmware update adds more stuff than a new Pentax model (K-3 II for example) does. And some really useful things, too. Why are you even here? You are clearly anti-Pentax. Pentax releases finished cameras, they don't need endless firmware updates. Sony, Fuji and Samsung do firmware updates because they release flawed cameras, then try to make up for it. Especially with auto-focus. MILC AF has constantly been playing catch-up. AF on the NX1 was a joke when it was released.

11-11-2015, 08:37 PM	#120
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by audiobomber Sony, Fuji and Samsung do firmware updates because they release flawed cameras, then try to make up for it. Firmware updates are an area where interesting things have been happening outside of Pentax-land, AFAICT. The latest NX1 update optimized buffer use in order to increase the maximum shot count while shooting at 15fps (from 70 to 90 shots in JPG, and from 20 to 25 shots in RAW). That's reasonably cool and definitely not just a bug fix - not like 70 shots at 15fps (and 28MP) was lackluster. I believe Fuji have added eye-detection auto-focus as a firmware update. That's a pretty major feature. Unless I am mistaken, recently Olympus added focus stacking and focus bracketing to the E-M1 via firmware update. That's incredibly cool, IMHO. Not to say that there haven't also been lots of bug fixes - which means there were lots of bugs. But why not also give credit where credit is due?