Samsung Getting out of the ILC Business?

audiobomber · 11-11-2015, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Firmware updates are an area where interesting things have been happening outside of Pentax-land, AFAICT. The latest NX1 update optimized buffer use in order to increase the maximum shot count while shooting at 15fps (from 70 to 90 shots in JPG, and from 20 to 25 shots in RAW). That's reasonably cool and definitely not just a bug fix - not like 70 shots at 15fps (and 28MP) was lackluster. I believe Fuji have added eye-detection auto-focus as a firmware update. That's a pretty major feature. Unless I am mistaken, recently Olympus added focus stacking and focus bracketing to the E-M1 via firmware update. That's incredibly cool, IMHO. Not to say that there haven't also been lots of bug fixes - which means there were lots of bugs. But why not also give credit where credit is due?

Why pretend that Pentax hasn't provided improvements? Focus peaking was added while I owned a Q. I've had firmware upgrades on my K-3 to improve AF, nullify shutter flap and add diffraction correction . What is it that Pentax needs to add? I've owned seven Pentax bodies. Every single one of them had firmware updates.

Last edited by audiobomber; 11-12-2015 at 04:58 AM.

Winder · 11-11-2015, 11:10 PM

Samsung NX1 discontinued in Europe? Rumors say 'yes' (updated): Digital Photography Review

neostyles · 11-11-2015, 11:13 PM

This by no mean says that they are dead, only that they are focusing on other markets. What with the latest crop of firmware updates the nx1 is really a hard to beat option. As they add more lenses, it will only get better and better to the point where i think it might have a shot at competing with the A7 line up. Back in September it was more o r less confirmed that a 300mm f2.8 will be comming and then later a 16-80, 24, and an 11-24. The Samsung world definitely had a lack of lenses at launch but that's becoming less and less of an issue. My only fear is that this will increase prices here in the states.

surfar · 11-12-2015, 12:13 AM

All camera manufacturers have their HICCUPS....

Have Pentax fixs)ed the K3 ii problem?...better still HAVE they fixed the SDM problem, seeing the FF lenses that are new...don't have it!

Sammy, is a huge corporation....the main player in Korean manufacturing....the venture into the camera market was a gamble(as was Sony/Panas)....

A rumour doing the rounds in the phn segment is the S7 phn will have 20 mp and shoot raw....perhaps the NX mini's sensor?

NO phones shot raw before?...S4 zoom and Kzoom are the pre runners

Advancement changes the market....its all good

itshimitis · 11-12-2015, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Itshimitis, he has the right to make as many outlandish statements as he likes.

The other members, whether Scandinavian existentialists or not, have the right to call BS on them.

That's how it works.

So you don't think it childish to stand there and say "nah nah nah nah nah?" What alternate universe do you live in?

**Rondec** · 11-12-2015, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by neostyles

This by no mean says that they are dead, only that they are focusing on other markets. What with the latest crop of firmware updates the nx1 is really a hard to beat option. As they add more lenses, it will only get better and better to the point where i think it might have a shot at competing with the A7 line up. Back in September it was more o r less confirmed that a 300mm f2.8 will be comming and then later a 16-80, 24, and an 11-24. The Samsung world definitely had a lack of lenses at launch but that's becoming less and less of an issue. My only fear is that this will increase prices here in the states.

Looks concerning to me, at best. If you give up on Europe, you are cutting off a fairly significant market that sells plenty of cameras for other brands -- even Pentax. It is hard to imagine a company deliberately saying that were going to discontinue selling cameras in a large market if their whole camera operation wasn't in a state of flux.

itshimitis · 11-12-2015, 04:51 AM

I too can't see how Samsung would stop selling in Europe and still continue producing cameras. It's not what I want to happen, because the more players there are, the better it is for us consumers, but that only plays out if they are serious players.

**Rondec** · 11-12-2015, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by itshimitis

I too can't see how Samsung would stop selling in Europe and still continue producing cameras. It's not what I want to happen, because the more players there are, the better it is for us consumers, but that only plays out if they are serious players.

Sure. The thing is that it is really hard to break into an existing market unless you can figure out how to be different from existing brands. Sony really didn't make much of a splash till they started releasing mirrorless full frame cameras and the performance of their cameras reached SLR levels. Samsung feels like a company that just tried to out do Sony in the technical aspects of making cameras, but without any full frame cameras and at this point, it is hard for me to say why you would buy a Samsung ILC versus a Sony ILC.

D1N0 · 11-12-2015, 05:03 AM

Or A Fuji or A Olysonic

Doundounba · 11-12-2015, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Why pretend that Pentax hasn't provided improvements?

You'll note that as for myself, I never said any such thing. I think for some, there might be a "grass is always greener on the other side" thing going on. However, the general attitude at Ricoh seems to be to not add anything major, at least on the APS-C side. Controlling mirror flap, which you mentioned, is very much a bug fix and not a feature add. Diffraction correction is a minor feature, IMHO. Peaking on the Q does count as a major feature, as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:

What is it that Pentax needs to add?

Personally, I'd have liked to see the astrotracer supported on the K-01 via a firmware update, which Pentax stated at launch would be coming. And focus bracketing is something that has definitely caught my attention...

To be fair, I think once you start investigating in detail, you might also find long-standing unfixed firmware bugs/problems in all camps. One thing that cools me down on Samsung (to come back nominally to the thread topic) is that apparently when using magnified view for precise focusing, you can't move the magnified area. It's always the center of the frame. AFAICT, this has been irking MF (and macro) shooters since the very first NX models, but has never been addressed. So for me, that would be one of the annoying trade-offs if I tried to shoot with the NX500, which may or may not be counter-balanced by the other features I'd gain, like a much lighter body and a tilting (touch-enabled) screen that remains in the axis of the lens when tilted (which are two of the points of friction between me and the K-3). For me the biggest problem with a Samsung switch would actually be the lack of a native 100mm 1:1 macro... 60mm is annoyingly short, and the new Samyang 100mm doesn't offer auto-iris on Samsung NX (like it does on Pentax).

Scintilla · 11-12-2015, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Samsung NX1 discontinued in Europe? Rumors say 'yes' (updated): Digital Photography Review

Has everybody been reading the "updated" part of this? The rumor was a bad copy-and-paste job from an old release about a completely different product line. It's almost certainly false.

D1N0 · 11-12-2015, 07:33 AM

Samsung rectracted. They've done that before. It is also Samsung using a template for answering, not the poster who is a respected member of EOSHD (not a canonforum but a DLSR/ILC Video forum.)

Adam Reid stated some facts:

Fact - Media Markt / Saturn group in Germany say NX1 is discontinued, are running discounts to clear stock.
Fact - More than 1 specialist store in Berlin has told me Samsung are shuttering the camera business entirely, not just the major retailers
Fact - Samsung's very own customer support staff, very likely with permission from their bosses or head office have told us the NX1 is being discontinued. Not an isolated incident. Other users have had the same response separately, from other Samsung teams in other countries.
Fact - For over a month rumours have been in existence. The fact they are in existence is not proof by itself but put two and two together.
Fact - My own contact at Samsung is quiet, likely assigned to different division as per earliest rumours
Fact - The first sources of the rumours were reputable South Korean news sites
Fact - Stores globally have been clearing Samsung stock all at the SAME TIME. From Sweden to Australia
Fact - NX system sales haven't met Samsung's expectations
Fact - The statement Oliver had is word for word a match to previous official Samsung statements about discontinued products
Fact - Samsung haven't denied any of this when asked

osv · 11-12-2015, 08:03 AM

the problem with all this is that the nx1 camera body is still $1200 at b&h, the same price that it's been for months... no samsung rebate, either.

i wonder if the nx1 is the most expensive mirrorless crop camera on the market?

usually companies will drop pricing to move goods that aren't selling, and that's not happening here.

D1N0 · 11-12-2015, 08:26 AM

^^ I think Samsung (amongst others I don't see many Sony deals) have a anti-dumping clause to prevent dumping of older models hurting their new sales. Ricoh obviously haven't.

osv · 11-12-2015, 10:24 AM

anti-dumping clause with who? b&h? an a6000 body is $478, k3 is $649, samsung has a lot of room to drop the price, without dumping the camera en masse.

samsung hasn't lowered the nx1 price at all, i don't see an indication that they are "dumping" anything.

11-12-2015, 06:24 AM	#130
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by audiobomber Why pretend that Pentax hasn't provided improvements? You'll note that as for myself, I never said any such thing. I think for some, there might be a "grass is always greener on the other side" thing going on. However, the general attitude at Ricoh seems to be to not add anything major, at least on the APS-C side. Controlling mirror flap, which you mentioned, is very much a bug fix and not a feature add. Diffraction correction is a minor feature, IMHO. Peaking on the Q does count as a major feature, as far as I'm concerned. Quote: What is it that Pentax needs to add? Personally, I'd have liked to see the astrotracer supported on the K-01 via a firmware update, which Pentax stated at launch would be coming. And focus bracketing is something that has definitely caught my attention... To be fair, I think once you start investigating in detail, you might also find long-standing unfixed firmware bugs/problems in all camps. One thing that cools me down on Samsung (to come back nominally to the thread topic) is that apparently when using magnified view for precise focusing, you can't move the magnified area. It's always the center of the frame. AFAICT, this has been irking MF (and macro) shooters since the very first NX models, but has never been addressed. So for me, that would be one of the annoying trade-offs if I tried to shoot with the NX500, which may or may not be counter-balanced by the other features I'd gain, like a much lighter body and a tilting (touch-enabled) screen that remains in the axis of the lens when tilted (which are two of the points of friction between me and the K-3). For me the biggest problem with a Samsung switch would actually be the lack of a native 100mm 1:1 macro... 60mm is annoyingly short, and the new Samyang 100mm doesn't offer auto-iris on Samsung NX (like it does on Pentax). Last edited by Doundounba; 11-12-2015 at 07:43 AM.

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11-11-2015, 09:36 PM	#121
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Doundounba Firmware updates are an area where interesting things have been happening outside of Pentax-land, AFAICT. The latest NX1 update optimized buffer use in order to increase the maximum shot count while shooting at 15fps (from 70 to 90 shots in JPG, and from 20 to 25 shots in RAW). That's reasonably cool and definitely not just a bug fix - not like 70 shots at 15fps (and 28MP) was lackluster. I believe Fuji have added eye-detection auto-focus as a firmware update. That's a pretty major feature. Unless I am mistaken, recently Olympus added focus stacking and focus bracketing to the E-M1 via firmware update. That's incredibly cool, IMHO. Not to say that there haven't also been lots of bug fixes - which means there were lots of bugs. But why not also give credit where credit is due? Why pretend that Pentax hasn't provided improvements? Focus peaking was added while I owned a Q. I've had firmware upgrades on my K-3 to improve AF, nullify shutter flap and add diffraction correction . What is it that Pentax needs to add? I've owned seven Pentax bodies. Every single one of them had firmware updates. Last edited by audiobomber; 11-12-2015 at 04:58 AM.

11-11-2015, 11:10 PM	#122
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Samsung NX1 discontinued in Europe? Rumors say 'yes' (updated): Digital Photography Review

11-11-2015, 11:13 PM	#123
neostyles Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 445	This by no mean says that they are dead, only that they are focusing on other markets. What with the latest crop of firmware updates the nx1 is really a hard to beat option. As they add more lenses, it will only get better and better to the point where i think it might have a shot at competing with the A7 line up. Back in September it was more o r less confirmed that a 300mm f2.8 will be comming and then later a 16-80, 24, and an 11-24. The Samsung world definitely had a lack of lenses at launch but that's becoming less and less of an issue. My only fear is that this will increase prices here in the states.

11-12-2015, 12:13 AM	#124
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	All camera manufacturers have their HICCUPS.... Have Pentax fixs)ed the K3 ii problem?...better still HAVE they fixed the SDM problem, seeing the FF lenses that are new...don't have it! Sammy, is a huge corporation....the main player in Korean manufacturing....the venture into the camera market was a gamble(as was Sony/Panas).... A rumour doing the rounds in the phn segment is the S7 phn will have 20 mp and shoot raw....perhaps the NX mini's sensor? NO phones shot raw before?...S4 zoom and Kzoom are the pre runners Advancement changes the market....its all good

11-12-2015, 01:43 AM	#125
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	Originally posted by clackers Itshimitis, he has the right to make as many outlandish statements as he likes. The other members, whether Scandinavian existentialists or not, have the right to call BS on them. That's how it works. So you don't think it childish to stand there and say "nah nah nah nah nah?" What alternate universe do you live in?

11-12-2015, 04:43 AM	#126
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by neostyles This by no mean says that they are dead, only that they are focusing on other markets. What with the latest crop of firmware updates the nx1 is really a hard to beat option. As they add more lenses, it will only get better and better to the point where i think it might have a shot at competing with the A7 line up. Back in September it was more o r less confirmed that a 300mm f2.8 will be comming and then later a 16-80, 24, and an 11-24. The Samsung world definitely had a lack of lenses at launch but that's becoming less and less of an issue. My only fear is that this will increase prices here in the states. Looks concerning to me, at best. If you give up on Europe, you are cutting off a fairly significant market that sells plenty of cameras for other brands -- even Pentax. It is hard to imagine a company deliberately saying that were going to discontinue selling cameras in a large market if their whole camera operation wasn't in a state of flux.

11-12-2015, 04:51 AM	#127
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	I too can't see how Samsung would stop selling in Europe and still continue producing cameras. It's not what I want to happen, because the more players there are, the better it is for us consumers, but that only plays out if they are serious players.

11-12-2015, 04:58 AM	#128
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by itshimitis I too can't see how Samsung would stop selling in Europe and still continue producing cameras. It's not what I want to happen, because the more players there are, the better it is for us consumers, but that only plays out if they are serious players. Sure. The thing is that it is really hard to break into an existing market unless you can figure out how to be different from existing brands. Sony really didn't make much of a splash till they started releasing mirrorless full frame cameras and the performance of their cameras reached SLR levels. Samsung feels like a company that just tried to out do Sony in the technical aspects of making cameras, but without any full frame cameras and at this point, it is hard for me to say why you would buy a Samsung ILC versus a Sony ILC.

11-12-2015, 05:03 AM	#129
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Or A Fuji or A Olysonic

11-12-2015, 07:14 AM	#131
Scintilla Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 347	Originally posted by Winder Samsung NX1 discontinued in Europe? Rumors say 'yes' (updated): Digital Photography Review Has everybody been reading the "updated" part of this? The rumor was a bad copy-and-paste job from an old release about a completely different product line. It's almost certainly false.

11-12-2015, 07:33 AM	#132
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Samsung rectracted. They've done that before. It is also Samsung using a template for answering, not the poster who is a respected member of EOSHD (not a canonforum but a DLSR/ILC Video forum.) Adam Reid stated some facts: Fact - Media Markt / Saturn group in Germany say NX1 is discontinued, are running discounts to clear stock. Fact - More than 1 specialist store in Berlin has told me Samsung are shuttering the camera business entirely, not just the major retailers Fact - Samsung's very own customer support staff, very likely with permission from their bosses or head office have told us the NX1 is being discontinued. Not an isolated incident. Other users have had the same response separately, from other Samsung teams in other countries. Fact - For over a month rumours have been in existence. The fact they are in existence is not proof by itself but put two and two together. Fact - My own contact at Samsung is quiet, likely assigned to different division as per earliest rumours Fact - The first sources of the rumours were reputable South Korean news sites Fact - Stores globally have been clearing Samsung stock all at the SAME TIME. From Sweden to Australia Fact - NX system sales haven't met Samsung's expectations Fact - The statement Oliver had is word for word a match to previous official Samsung statements about discontinued products Fact - Samsung haven't denied any of this when asked

11-12-2015, 08:03 AM	#133
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	the problem with all this is that the nx1 camera body is still $1200 at b&h, the same price that it's been for months... no samsung rebate, either. i wonder if the nx1 is the most expensive mirrorless crop camera on the market? usually companies will drop pricing to move goods that aren't selling, and that's not happening here.

11-12-2015, 08:26 AM	#134
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	^^ I think Samsung (amongst others I don't see many Sony deals) have a anti-dumping clause to prevent dumping of older models hurting their new sales. Ricoh obviously haven't.

11-12-2015, 10:24 AM	#135
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	anti-dumping clause with who? b&h? an a6000 body is $478, k3 is $649, samsung has a lot of room to drop the price, without dumping the camera en masse. samsung hasn't lowered the nx1 price at all, i don't see an indication that they are "dumping" anything.