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10-28-2015, 04:58 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Out of the 3 photography forums i visit, only on Pentax Forums do i find members that attempt to talk folks out of buying FF. Will this oddity die out when the Pentax FF gets on the market. I suspect so. Something to think about.

I'm retired, and photography is my hobby, vocation and how i meet interesting people in the arts. I enjoy all of it. At 3pm today, i meet with a director for a dinner theatre act, who's going to chat with me about the kind of photos they want for a promo shoot which is scheduled for 5:30pm outdoors. 3 people, 2 dogs may be involved. Not sure the dogs are a good idea, but hey, i'm here to help. Last time i worked with this director, i talked her into doing a shoot in the evening with the aid of a flash. It worked out well enough that she wants to repeat the experience. I've got 60-90 minutes for that shoot and then have to be at a photo club meeting where i'm the host for another 2 hrs.

Life's an adventure, might as well get the most out it. And FF can be a part of that adventure.
Well, clearly what someone wishes to buy is no one's business but theirs. I probably do get a bit concerned when I read people talking themselves into doing something which sounds questionable, at least until they have thought about it, and especially when this stuff costs a great deal and that can ripple through other things in life in ways that are generally well worth avoiding. TBH, I've pretty well gone off formats and tech stuff at the moment, feeling they are very often what matters least. A good post (imho) about fanboys on Ming Thein's blog has only added to my dyspepsia. I look through some of the classic, but great, work from Magnum photographers and am struck by how pretty well any camera today above a $50 throw-away could match what most of those photographers had at the time they took their images. I'd buy a prime lens now only because I liked its rendering, most likely wide open only, and not care too much about its sharpness. I certainly would not consult the ghastly DxO and co. I completely agree, though, "Life's an adventure, might as well get the most out it. And FF can be a part of that adventure" - even if not for me, at least not right now. And the D750 sounds a fab camera ...

10-28-2015, 08:39 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Out of the 3 photography forums i visit, only on Pentax Forums do i find members that attempt to talk folks out of buying FF.
Judging by the the many posts, Pentax forum is more a gear forum more than a photography forum. And the usual people who take offense to someone buying another brand who talk about it are more into the gear than photography, IMHO.

Another forum I visit people post shots from all kinds of cameras and no one goes into long-winded discussions about sensors format sizes and equivalents or tries to recruit more people to buy their brand so they feel better about their choice, etc.

Just like the film days, film type and lens defined a lot about the resulting image. Today the senor and lens are the equivalent. So for people who like segregation and what to hang out with like-minded people we should have forums based on sensor and lenses not camera brand. Maybe a Sony Sensor-Sigma Glass forum, for example.
10-28-2015, 09:49 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Judging by the the many posts, Pentax forum is more a gear forum more than a photography forum. And the usual people who take offense to someone buying another brand who talk about it are more into the gear than photography, IMHO.
I feel the same way too... many of them spend too much time on the Internet searching for answers just about anything to do with new gear, new development, new charts and not enough to apply that knowledge to make better photos (as a result of better tools). Often times I expect stunning results from individuals (looking at their albums and gallery) but come away awed that the photos show anything but...

OTOH, some here are both solid in their knowledge as well as knowing how to apply that knowledge in their techniques; and I make sure I do spend time to learn from them. That's just IMHO.
10-28-2015, 10:09 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I feel the same way too... many of them spend too much time on the Internet searching for answers just about anything to do with new gear, new development, new charts and not enough to apply that knowledge to make better photos (as a result of better tools). Often times I expect stunning results from individuals (looking at their albums and gallery) but come away awed that the photos show anything but...

OTOH, some here are both solid in their knowledge as well as knowing how to apply that knowledge in their techniques; and I make sure I do spend time to learn from them. That's just IMHO.
Well said, aleonx3. It seems to me, in many cases, that we seldom, if ever, see posted photos from the "experts" that do the most whining/complaining/criticizing. If all their negative efforts were redirected in a positive manner, PF would benefit greatly.

10-28-2015, 10:14 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by jlstrawman Quote
Well said, aleonx3. It seems to me, in many cases, that we seldom, if ever, see posted photos from the "experts" that do the most whining/complaining/criticizing. If all their negative efforts were redirected in a positive manner, PF would benefit greatly.
Not only do we not see photos, they get all indignant if you ask them if they have an example of what they are talking about. There are a lot of folks who feel they have a better capacity to read and interpret reviews and tests than the rest of us, and that , that ability alone qualifies them to have an opinion on everything and anything.

And they get upset real quick, if you ask them how they know what they claim to know.
10-28-2015, 10:59 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Maybe a Sony Sensor-Sigma Glass forum, for example.
You are giving Adam ideas.
He's probably registering that domain as we speak.
10-28-2015, 11:40 AM   #67
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Sometimes one gets forced into changing brands purely by market forces.

This is essentially what happened in SA - everyone using Pentax eventually changed to Nikon or Canon - there was zero support for Pentax - no lenses, no accessories. Pentax in SA died.

The same thing has now happened with Sony.

So only two markets really exist in SA - Canon & Nikon with Canon being dominant - I would say approx 80% of dslr purchases are Canon.

The D750 body is not much larger than than my D7000 or heavier either - with a 50 1.8g mounted on it - my wife has no problem using it

On the other hand the 24-120 F4 is a lot heavier than the 16-85 on my D7000 - so the equivalent combo is much much heavier as shown below

Sorry about the image - just a quick snap under crap lighting with iPhone




So you can immediately see that zoom lenses are the trade off when it comes to size an weight with FF

---------- Post added 10-28-2015 at 09:04 PM ----------

Coming from a D7000 I will re state that I'm massively impressed at the high ISO rendering

Started trying the DX 85 3.5 Macro at ISO 10000 - I went a bit too crazy pushing the file - no noise removal done

This is 1:1

https://flic.kr/p/AmLKdZ



10-29-2015, 10:11 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Judging by the the many posts, Pentax forum is more a gear forum more than a photography forum. And the usual people who take offense to someone buying another brand who talk about it are more into the gear than photography, IMHO.

Another forum I visit people post shots from all kinds of cameras and no one goes into long-winded discussions about sensors format sizes and equivalents or tries to recruit more people to buy their brand so they feel better about their choice, etc....

.
I sometimes think its in the male DNA or something, to care about the tools we have. For a long time in the human species, its been the men that built shelters, kept the car running, etc. Not that women can't do it also.

I laugh about it, but at times, i think i choose hobbies that let me buy more tools. For example, i once took a class on pottery making because i wanted to buy a wheel to make clay pots on. Made a coupla pots and then dropped that hobby. Etc. One generally doesnt find women that devote as much obsessive time with the hardware details of cameras.

The camera club I was President of, (recently resigned as President - Yea!!!!), we've gone to a critique process where we discuss prints, composition, print quality, etc. not hardware. I enjoy that discussion although some of the esoteric discussion of eye travel, focus points, distractions, sort of causes my eyes to glaze over - and i yearn for a much more solid discussion i can get my teeth into like DR, ISO, EVF or OVF,

I've quit my first gallery and joined a second one closer to home. I'm the only photographer out of 25 painters, sculptors, jewelry makers, and its kind of a neat thing. They don't take about composition very much either - mostly about the process. Most have far more art training than i do. Perhaps thats why they don't talk about the composition much - have to think about that. What is refreshing is they don't obsess over details much at all - as opposed to photography.

In any case, thats why i come to PF or Dpreview or DXO - to get my hardware fix - don't take that away from me
10-30-2015, 03:41 AM   #69
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The D750 must be a very good camera but it's cost three times my K3 (new) so it's over my budget and the K3 is more than enough for most of the photo I want to take or make !
But I have that burning desire to find out how my FA limited become on a Full Frame, if someone makes an AF adapter for Pentax lens on A7 series, I think many would buy a7* camera to just test their lens (like me), then we will rationalize the buy with technical terms, chart, test, god's voice in the dream...
Ricoh, please finish your FF and sell quickly before another alien eats all the FF stuff again !
10-31-2015, 08:03 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by redcat Quote
The D750 must be a very good camera but it's cost three times my K3 (new) so it's over my budget and the K3 is more than enough for most of the photo I want to take or make !
But I have that burning desire to find out how my FA limited become on a Full Frame, if someone makes an AF adapter for Pentax lens on A7 series, I think many would buy a7* camera to just test their lens (like me), then we will rationalize the buy with technical terms, chart, test, god's voice in the dream...
Ricoh, please finish your FF and sell quickly before another alien eats all the FF stuff again !
What you say is very true - and the K3 is more than enough camera - the D7000 even more so just due to the fact that it can be bought 2nd hand now for Zar 4000.

Just as much as a 120i BMW is more than enough but hey many want the 135i. It's an individualistic decision and largely based on budgetary constraints.

I'm now 55 with two successful businesses built up over 25 years so I can afford it - but only now - FF has been out since the Canon 5D

I have brilliant images made from my K10D and my D7000 and form my Sony RX100 - so I would like to think I have a great deal of knowledge and experience in my type of photography.

My take so far in using the D750 is that I can get images on the go which I couldn't get with my D7000 (especially at very high ISO) , I feel I get better subject isolation, the files can be pushed to ridiculous levels without them falling apart and more of an analogue output as opposed to a digital look and of course it's focussing is world class.
10-31-2015, 08:25 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
What you say is very true - and the K3 is more than enough camera - the D7000 even more so just due to the fact that it can be bought 2nd hand now for Zar 4000.

Just as much as a 120i BMW is more than enough but hey many want the 135i. It's an individualistic decision and largely based on budgetary constraints.

I'm now 55 with two successful businesses built up over 25 years so I can afford it - but only now - FF has been out since the Canon 5D

I have brilliant images made from my K10D and my D7000 and form my Sony RX100 - so I would like to think I have a great deal of knowledge and experience in my type of photography.

My take so far in using the D750 is that I can get images on the go which I couldn't get with my D7000 (especially at very high ISO) , I feel I get better subject isolation, the files can be pushed to ridiculous levels without them falling apart and more of an analogue output as opposed to a digital look and of course it's focussing is world class.
And I'm sure you believe those things.
10-31-2015, 10:25 AM   #72
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There is some interesting information in this thread....I've learned some technical things I didn't know. They most likely won't help me but it's still good to know them, being dumb is not always fun.

As Norm pointed out...the crop factor is important to me. I shoot mostly wildlife nowadays and the range is most important. As long as I can shoot handsome squirrels with my K5IIs at ISO 8,000 and they stay handsome, I'm pretty content. They don't even have to be great shots.....as long as the squirrel stays handsome!


OTOH...If I still had my little downtown studio, and was shooting mostly people, I do believe I would be going for the Pentax FF for use there. Although, I have a friend in Dallas with a very high end studio and some high class clients that shoots Nikon FF and does most location shots with an original K5. When he travels the K5 is his choice because of kit size and outstanding IQ. Difference doesn't always mean better...or worse...it means different!

Regards!
10-31-2015, 01:50 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
There is some interesting information in this thread....I've learned some technical things I didn't know. They most likely won't help me but it's still good to know them, being dumb is not always fun.

As Norm pointed out...the crop factor is important to me. I shoot mostly wildlife nowadays and the range is most important. As long as I can shoot handsome squirrels with my K5IIs at ISO 8,000 and they stay handsome, I'm pretty content. They don't even have to be great shots.....as long as the squirrel stays handsome!


OTOH...If I still had my little downtown studio, and was shooting mostly people, I do believe I would be going for the Pentax FF for use there. Although, I have a friend in Dallas with a very high end studio and some high class clients that shoots Nikon FF and does most location shots with an original K5. When he travels the K5 is his choice because of kit size and outstanding IQ. Difference doesn't always mean better...or worse...it means different!

Regards!
Not bad for a file downsized to about 1mb;-)

I've seen your posts for years Rupert - you certainly have a fixation on squirrels :-)

I'm showing native files without any nr pp and at their native size but of course I'm used to hearing that even the K10d, 20d etc etc can all do the same thing - the K5 has the same sensor as the Nik D7000 or I stand to be corrected, so I know the differences between my D7000 and the D750 at high ISO

Ooh look see I can do the same with a K10D - a bit more interesting than a squirrel - don't you think?

10-31-2015, 04:39 PM   #74
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I'd love the D750 but being the Luddite I am, I hate learning LR or PS over Capture NX2, something I'm use to. But, CNX2 doesn't support the D750 and I don't want to learn LR so, I have to be content with the D7000 that is supported.
10-31-2015, 05:53 PM   #75
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