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10-25-2015, 08:25 AM   #1
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Fuji X-T10?

It has been a three year process for me, however it looks like I have found something to replace the venerable Pentax MX. I had all but decided on a KS-2, and then a friend allowed me to play with his Fuji X-T10 yesterday. It is about the same size as the ol' MX, and lighter than the DSLR. The controls were very familiar, and allowed me to use the manual settings nearly the same as I do with the MX. An adapter can be used with the K mount lenses I have, however I do believe the Fuji lens selection is good, and the quality seems to be right there with the Pentax lenses.

Since I will be jumping ship in every respect, the plan is to keep the thing as long as I have had the MX, so durability is a primary concern. What I have been told by my friend is that Fuji is the unsung hero of digital photography. Not well known outside of professional circles. He likes it quite a bit, but it is new and his first Fuji camera.

If anyone has long term experience with Fuji digital cameras, please provide an opinion as I am driving blind here. I will add that if Pentax had something with the controls set up like the Fuji, that would be the obvious choice, however they do not so jumping to a new brand will be necessary.

Thanks for your help.

10-25-2015, 09:33 AM   #2
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is there nothing in the Ricoh range that matches your requirements?
10-25-2015, 10:28 AM   #3
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I shoot both, a Fuji X-E2, which is comparable in most respects to your friend's Fuji. I also shoot Pentax DSLRs and own a K3 at the moment. I like Fuji for straight out of the camera JPEGs. My one and only real gripe with Fuji is that the AF system is absolutely terrible and no matter what the settings I find that I only have about 50% keeps with my street stuff. Mind you, if I take my time with still lifes then the keepers go up. Also, the AF system is terrible slow. On the other hand, the K3 is absolutely brilliant in all aspects. For the price of your friend's XT-10 and and the kit lens, you can get a K3 with 24mp, a 50mm lens and a Pentax flash for $649 at Adorama or B&H when last I looked, and still save close to $400. So, bottom line, you can get way more and a far better camera for a lot less. A no brainer to me. (P.S. I'm actually selling my Fuji system because it's not really all that portable without a pancake lens attached. Pentax might be a tad heavier, but I can live with that.) Don

Last edited by DHA; 10-25-2015 at 10:28 AM. Reason: my type
10-25-2015, 10:36 AM   #4
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I've extensively used Fuji, and Pentax. The Fuji's are fabulous, image quality is amazing and the lenses are incredible, and fast (something the Pentax Limited primes generally don't offer). However, depending upon your needs, if you want to grow your lens selection it can be pricey, which is why I left Fuji and am with Pentax.

A Pentax K5II can be had for under $400, a new K3 for $649 with extras. The Limited primes can be had for much less than the Fuji primes and although slower, are on par optically (and smaller in many cases). The Pentax fast zooms (16-50 and 50-135) are both lighter and less expensive than Fuji's equivalent lenses (with careful shopping, you can get both for the price of one Fuji). Both Fuji's, like the Pentax, are weather sealed, but you would have to step up to an X-T1 to get a weather sealed body. (Weight wise, the Pentax K5II, 16-50 and 50-135 is basically the same weight (1.2345 ounces heavier) than the X-T1 16-55 and 50-140, (total kit would weigh less if you add up all the Fuji batteries you need to equal one Pentax battery).

The Pentax bodies are solid chunks, with great weather sealing. Fuji is lighter, but without weather sealing (unless you go X-T1). If WR is important, those are things to consider. To some it is, to others not so much. Despite the Pentax reputation for slow AFC, it still beats the Fuji AFC. Fuji's AF is quirky and will fail to focus in some seemingly easy situations. The Pentax AF is much more reliable.

I really like my Pentax gear, and think it is the best value for the money, which is why I came back. But in all honesty, if money was not an issue, I'd be shooting with the Fuji just for the fast primes (the 23 1.4 is amazing).

Good luck, think of the whole system and how it fits your needs before jumping ship. Look at the lenses you want/need in both systems and see how the WHOLE kit fits, not just a body or a lens.

10-25-2015, 10:40 AM   #5
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I don't have any personal experience with Fuji but I like what I have read about their serious cameras. My suggestion is to make a list of what's important to you. If the X-T10 ticks all the right boxes I see no reason not to go that route. Sounds like you find the ergonomics of the Fuji to fit you well, so no problem there. The image quality shouldn't be a problem. Their lenses look really good (but quite pricey).

Their build quality I don't really know anything about.

I would miss the in-body image stabilisation and the optical view finder. But if you're fine with those I see no reason not to go for it. It's not as if you owe Ricoh anything.
10-25-2015, 12:56 PM   #6
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Good input, thanks. My needs are very basic. I don't need in camera processing or the fancy program stuff such as adding affects to images. The only thing I do is compose a picture in the viewfinder and snap the shutter after deciding the f stop and shutter speed (the MX is all manual). I can still see well enough to focus manually so auto focus is not needed, and I enjoy setting shutter speed and aperture. Honestly, I don't need much other than a way to go digital. I can get a K3 locally for $750 with a 18-55 lens and the huge battery thing that screws to the bottom of the camera body, but no memory card unless the K3 comes with one. The bugger is that the K3 does not have the dial controls like the Fuji or the Pentax MX, which is what I prefer.
Can someone tell me the drawbacks to the mirrorless set up for manual focusing? Branden assured me I would adapt to it quickly as I struggled a little with it. he also told me that the Pentax manual lenses I currently have will not work well with the EVF because of the adapter ring to use them on the Fuji body, so I figure the Fuji lenses will be the most reliable way to use manual focus on the Fuji body.
Anyway, I am serious about making the switch, and just want more than my friend Branden's opinion. I will review the above comments a couple of times and bone up on any shortcomings of the Fuji. I have owned several Pentax SLR's in the past, and two of my brother's have them as well and it makes sharing equipment very handy!
10-25-2015, 01:43 PM   #7
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Have you thought about something in the u4/3 ecosystem? The bodies, like the Olympus M-10, are small and a joy to use. Lenses are plentiful and reasonably priced. The used market is very healthy. I have been tickled pink by my M-10 and it makes a great compliment to my K-3.

I'm not real big on adapting lenses because a lot of the automated functionality like AF and aperture control is lost. Maybe for portraits or static subjects this is fine but not for photographing children, street scenes, parties, etc. The crop factor of u4/3 is 2x so all of my K-mount lenses suddenly turn into tele lenses.

10-25-2015, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Pichur: I love cameras. I am 65 and started using good 35mm (slr) cameras in the mid-70s, so I have a little history. I have many Pentax 35mm bodies ( I have a MX, too!) and lenses, many Nikon 35mm bodies and lenses, 3 Pentax DSLRs and modern Pentax prime lenses to go with them. Back in the 70's my photographer friends all told me that you buy a brand/system/lens mount for the optics, so if you bought Pentax, you were granted access to Pentax optics and should stay with them rather than 3rd party manufacturers. I also have become very involved in Fuji mirrorless. In fact, so involved, that the rest of my stuff is kind of idle while I use the Fuji cameras with Fuji optics. The Fujis encourage you to slow down, focus, consider aperture and shutter speed and exposure compensation. If you do so, you are rewarded with very useable images right out of the camera. They produce wonderful jpeg images not requiring much, if any work in photo programs, plus, the cameras have great film simulations that are easily selectable in the camera. When I received my first Fuji camera, I looked through the owners manual while holding the camera and going through the settings, and it all seemed so familiar to using a 35mm camera like my MX. The menu systems are not as complex as some cameras, and you can customize the on-screen display to help you when you are shooting. I am using multiple XE-1s and X PRO-1s as well as the X-E2(which I purchased expressly for the Classic Chrome simulation--and it was worth it for that). I have 5 of the Fuji primes as well as the set of Zeiss Touit primes for Fuji. I have adaptors for the Fuji bodies to use my Pentax as well as my Nikon lenses, but, to be honest, I do not use them much as the Fuji lenses are so good. It seems from what you are saying that the Fuji system might please you. Should you decide to choose the XT-10, choose, as a recommendation, to go along with it, the 35mm F 1.4 or 23mm F 1.4 to start with. Either lens can be manually focused, but once you get accustomed to auto focus, it may spoil you. Personally, I do not think the Fuji auto-focus is as dreadful as some say. I have both lenses mentioned, mounted to bodies, so I can select a camera and go. For general use, I take a Fuji, if I go to the baseball game or to take aerial/airplane pictures, I choose a Pentax DSLR and a long lens as the DSLR is a better choice for action/motion.

With all the above being said, the choice of say, a K3, would also be great, but you might have more to learn. If you purchase it, buy a great lens to go with it, rather than a budget lens, especially as you say you will keep the camera for a long time. Look at the Pentax FA 31mm F 1.8; the more you use it the more you will love it. I have one that permanently resides on the body it is dedicated to; I have had mine since 2008 and love it more each time I use it.

Last edited by Prairie Dog; 10-25-2015 at 04:31 PM. Reason: xt 10 rather than xt 1
10-26-2015, 07:16 AM - 1 Like   #9
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Pichur; I like both Fuji and Pentax cameras. To be honest, earlier this summer I was planning to jump ship from Pentax to Fuji totally, but after shooting a couple of serious gigs I realised I much prefer the Pentax DSLR handling, personally speaking.

I could go on and on about the advantages and disadvantages of both camera systems, but I'll try and keep it to your concerns:

Controls... The x-t10 has the controls as you want them, but bare in mind if the K-3 is in manual mode you have the shutter speed on the control dial in front of the shutter and the aperture on the control dial by your thumb.

Manual focusing (particularly through the viewfinder)... Mirrorless can have an advantage as they can provide focus assist features such as focus peaking and magnification. The focus screen on modern DSLRs are designed more for giving a bright image and can often exaggerate depth of field for manual focusing; it's pretty easy to change to an old school split screen type if you prefer, but can be a hassle to calibrate.

One thing you might not like with the x-t10 is that the standard fuji lenses manual focus by wire which doesn't feel like normal manual focussing.

You can access more lenses via adapters with mirrorless, however using adapters often requires a bit of research.

It does sound like the x-t10 might be what you're after, especially if you've handled one and like it. Just a couple of things to be weary of... In my experience the iso levels quoted by the camera often needs a slower shutter speed than you expect (some say it's a cheeky tactic by fuji to make the cameras look like they produce less noise). Raw processing can be more troublesome (I get the impression this is not really an issue for you). Finally, the newer fujis tend to cause skin to look plastic at high Iso levels - apparently it's a feature because the Japanese customers like it!!!!
10-26-2015, 08:44 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by pichur Quote
What I have been told by my friend is that Fuji is the unsung hero of digital photography. Not well known outside of professional circles.
That is an interesting perspective.

QuoteOriginally posted by pichur Quote
If anyone has long term experience with Fuji digital cameras, please provide an opinion as I am driving blind here.
There are several Fuji owners and former owners who hang out on the non-Pentax section of this site. This thread might have been better placed there. As noted above, the gripes with Fuji generally center on the focus-by-wire and manual focus functionality with adapted lenses. AF speed is also a problem for some users IIRC.


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10-26-2015, 09:23 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pichur Quote
What I have been told by my friend is that Fuji is the unsung hero of digital photography. Not well known outside of professional circles. He likes it quite a bit, but it is new and his first Fuji camera.
.
It was probably true 10 years ago. Fuji SLRs were Nikon bodies with a Fuji 'SR' sensor, which had a dual photosite sensor with a wider dynamic range than the singe photosite CCDs that Nikon was using. They were popular with wedding and portrait photographers. But Fuji abandoned that line in 2006 and haven't made a pro camera since. They didn't even start making ILCs again until 2011.

If you ask a Mod you can probably get this moved to the correct forum.
10-26-2015, 10:46 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by DanGleabols Quote
In my experience the iso levels quoted by the camera often needs a slower shutter speed than you expect (some say it's a cheeky tactic by fuji to make the cameras look like they produce less noise).
You are absolutely correct. It took me a little time to figure out that I need to set the shutter speed for my shots and not let Fuji, which will default to a ridiculous slow shutter speed to offset noise, as the poster above states. If you have OIS lenses, which Fuji only has a few, this might not be a problem, but it irks me. No such problem with the K3 onboard image stabilization.
10-26-2015, 12:11 PM   #13
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I have a relatively extensive history with Fuji's digital cameras, from their early P&S models, through the Nikon-mount models, and now into the X series cameras. Of all of those the X series is by far the best. That said, Fuji has a reputation of not supporting their cameras when they have known defects. The lack of in-body image stabilization (IS) really stinks them big time, when compared to Olympus' offerings.

I sold my Fujifilm X-T1 because to me, the cost was way above the image quality. So I got an X-T10 instead. I have a similar misgiving about that body too, but as it only cost $900 with a lens, I've kept it thus far. The images from both cameras are nice, but, again, where's the IS? Of the three Fuji lenses I own, only one has IS, and that's the cheapo kit zoom. Sure, the 35mm f1.4 takes nice pictures, but so does the Olympus 25mm 1.8 I have on my OM-D, and it's image stabilized. In fact, every lens I put on the OM-D has IS. Except for the kit lenses and some high-priced lenses, few Fuji have IS. Not sure if any of their primes have it at all.

If you're saying to yourself, I don't need IS, I'll put it to you that you're only saying that because you like the sexy, sleek Fuji camera. I do too. But on my last outing I forgot to turn IS back on after doing some experiments with it off, and believe me, I regretted it.
10-27-2015, 04:43 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfeye Quote
I have a relatively extensive history with Fuji's digital cameras, from their early P&S models, through the Nikon-mount models, and now into the X series cameras. Of all of those the X series is by far the best. That said, Fuji has a reputation of not supporting their cameras when they have known defects. The lack of in-body image stabilization (IS) really stinks them big time, when compared to Olympus' offerings.

I sold my Fujifilm X-T1 because to me, the cost was way above the image quality. So I got an X-T10 instead. I have a similar misgiving about that body too, but as it only cost $900 with a lens, I've kept it thus far. The images from both cameras are nice, but, again, where's the IS? Of the three Fuji lenses I own, only one has IS, and that's the cheapo kit zoom. Sure, the 35mm f1.4 takes nice pictures, but so does the Olympus 25mm 1.8 I have on my OM-D, and it's image stabilized. In fact, every lens I put on the OM-D has IS. Except for the kit lenses and some high-priced lenses, few Fuji have IS. Not sure if any of their primes have it at all.

If you're saying to yourself, I don't need IS, I'll put it to you that you're only saying that because you like the sexy, sleek Fuji camera. I do too. But on my last outing I forgot to turn IS back on after doing some experiments with it off, and believe me, I regretted it.
This weekend I was shooting pics with the ol' MX. Fits my hands well and works even better. Very simple camera to use. Someone should do the same with a digital. Skip all the BS software junk, and put a manual digital camera out there, and let the picture be the picture, and let light room work be where the adjustment are made.

It never occurred to me to check out if it had image stabilization. Is it that important? Why is it not needed on film cameras?

Yes, I really like the design of the Fuji camera as it looks very classy.

OK, Saturday I will head to the shop and give a good look at the K3, and work it with my K mount lenses, which I did not do before. I will let you 'all know the outcome.
10-27-2015, 05:32 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by pichur Quote
It never occurred to me to check out if it had image stabilization. Is it that important? Why is it not needed on film cameras?
Welcome to the real world. I say to you, and once, if you're out on the street at just past dusk and wanting to click a few in the low light of the gloaming, then you will be very pleased that your F1.4 lens has image stabilization built into the K3. I know you love our MX, and I, too, love looking at it collecting dust on the mantle, but now is the time to move on mi amigo....time to move on...
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