[clackers]

In fact I believe that Sony now turn over more $$ from imaging products (including video cams etc) than does Nikon.

We'll only know the answers to that kind of speculating when Sony spins off its camera division to leave the successful sensor division to operate without burden.

They've already announced rhis will happen.

[mecrox]

We'll only know the answers to that kind of speculating when Sony spins off its camera division to leave the successful sensor division to operate without burden.

They've already announced rhis will happen.

I'm not sure it is speculating. I may be wrong but I think Sony's imaging division is forecasting sales of 720 billion yen for the current year and Nikon is forecasting less than 600. Quite what each company includes under "imaging" is a big question, but Sony is no con trick. One may not rate some of their cameras, and I don't fancy the FF ones myself, but Sony are one of the big imaging companies these days, no question.

[clackers]

I'm not sure it is speculating. I may be wrong but I think Sony's imaging division is forecasting sales of 720 billion yen for the current year and Nikon is forecasting less than 600. Quite what each company includes under "imaging" is a big question, but Sony is no con trick. One may not rate some of their cameras, and I don't fancy the FF ones myself, but Sony are one of the big imaging companies these days, no question.

But, Mecrox, that's exactly the question.


What's the split?


Nikon don't make sensors, but there's a Sony in each iPhone.

[philbaum]

---------- Post added 12-07-15 at 09:06 PM ----------

Hurts our hobby when any maker has trouble, IMHO (eg Samsung).

Demand for Sony cameras slides 27%

Thats the misleading title of the article dated Oct 30 2015. If you look at the first sentence,

Unit sales of Sony digital cameras fell 27.2% for the three months to 30 September 2015 compared to the same quarter last year, official figures reveal.


They aren't talking total value of sales but piece numbers or units only.

Whats more, they are looking at Sept CIPA information rather than October 2015 information which is out and has been for two weeks... If you look at the October CIPA information for either month on month, or for 10 months from Jan to Oct 2015 compared to the same period of time in 2014, MILC sales in units or Value sales in yen, are doing better than DSLRs, trend wise.

What CIPA information does show is that Sony is following Canikon lead in putting their emphasis on more high-priced models - namely FF one would guess.

[pinholecam]

This is still focussing on the North Atlantic market, and assuming that the same holds for the presumably invisible rest of the world. The Chinese market has lately stalled a little, but will pick up as economic growth improves, and the Indian market has barely got going, in terms of the potential there.

So, predictions of the digital camera "fad" being over are somewhat premature, I believe, although there's clearly something of a recession in the US and European markets, and maybe the Japanese one, as well. Nonetheless, the major imaging corporations, including their suppliers, will be looking at the future, and they'll be seeking to develop new growth areas, even if that does include a lesser emphasis on the former major markets.

All I can tell you is that Chinese, Taiwan, Singapore photo forum activity is down too compared to 3-4yrs ago.

I'm not in the US, BTW.

[RobA_Oz]

All I can tell you is that Chinese, Taiwan, Singapore photo forum activity is down too compared to 3-4yrs ago.

I'm not in the US, BTW.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, and I didn't assume you were in the US. I thought "North Atlantic" would cover the USA, Canada, the U.K. and Europe, ie the majority of the Western markets. Those markets are mature, ie they consist of several generations and large numbers of amateur and professional photographers, many of whom are still active in the field, and who have experienced several different trends in photographic technique and equipment. The same can be said of the Japanese market, but it isn't true of the Chinese or Indian markets, just to name two that will have some significance over the next ten to twenty years.

That's the point I was trying to make. Western markets may well be saturated, jaded or just careless of photographic trends, but there's a few billion people elsewhere in the world who haven't had the same depth of experience or indeed any experience such as Westerners take for granted. You can back it in that every camera maker will be looking to grow their sales in those markets over the medium to long term.

[Kunzite]

flickr

They still don't count Pentax properly (not sure about other brands)

[MJSfoto1956]

seems to me there might be an opportunity of creating a "marketplace" for software extensions to your core product (much like the iTunes store) -- eventually people would want to upgrade their gear every couple of years just to get more (software) functionality. Trouble is, hardware guys have a hard time with the idea that the future is software. Kodak was the poster child for this. Key is getting enough bandwidth. Perhaps some sort of relationship with Apple might do the trick. Frankly, I'm surprise Nikon hasn't gotten into bed with Apple yet.

Michael

[rawr]

a "marketplace" for software extensions to your core product

Sony already has something akin to that for A7 and the newer NEXs, with it's in-camera PlayMemories Camera Apps (not to mention making numerous related PlayMemories apps for smartphone, tablet, PS4 etc, to support integration with their cameras and everything else Sony). PlayMemories is not a fully 'open' app marketplace, since all the apps are Sony authored, but they do seem interested in having 3rd-party developers get in on the game.

[Christine Tham]

That's the point I was trying to make. Western markets may well be saturated, jaded or just careless of photographic trends, but there's a few billion people elsewhere in the world who haven't had the same depth of experience or indeed any experience such as Westerners take for granted. You can back it in that every camera maker will be looking to grow their sales in those markets over the medium to long term.

That's linear thinking, and history has proven time and again linear thinking doesn't work.

There is no reason to believe (or any evidence to support) that developing markets will suddenly have a desire for compact cameras and DSLRs - the traditional product segments of camera makers. They will use smartphones like the rest of us.

The issue with camera makers isn't that they need to expand to new markets. They are making products that people don't want or need.

[tim60]

That's linear thinking, and history has proven time and again linear thinking doesn't work.

There is no reason to believe (or any evidence to support) that developing markets will suddenly have a desire for compact cameras and DSLRs - the traditional product segments of camera makers. They will use smartphones like the rest of us.

The issue with camera makers isn't that they need to expand to new markets. They are making products that people don't want or need.

The people in those places have different culture. Therefore they may not be interested in doing what traditional camera enable, which is taken pictures looking out from what one sees. The phone enables a different type of photography which seems to fit in with the interests of people in some markets.

As for the history, think of the trade imbalance caused by the western desire for tea, which was only available from China. The people of China did not want the stuff they were offered until the English came up with the idea of growing opium in India. Then the trade balance turned around the other way which led to yet more problems.

[philbaum]

Its interesting to speculate, but even the camera makers seem unable to predict the end state of the camera market. The only thing we know for sure, is that 10 years from now, historians will be able to explain with 100% accuracy why everything happened the way it did

[rawr]

10 years from now, historians will be able to explain with 100% accuracy why everything happened the way it did

Any historian will tell you that 100% accuracy is: (a) not possible, and (b) not even a sensible goal in writing history.

Who can explain (or even remember) with 100% accuracy what they did yesterday?

[Christine Tham]

As for the history, think of the trade imbalance caused by the western desire for tea, which was only available from China. The people of China did not want the stuff they were offered until the English came up with the idea of growing opium in India. Then the trade balance turned around the other way which led to yet more problems.

I suspect even a high school student will disagree with your rather simplistic explanation of those events, but if your point was smartphone is the new opium, then I agree.

Apparently people in China has been known to sell a kidney for an iPhone.

[tim60]

I suspect even a high school student will disagree with your rather simplistic explanation of those events, but if your point was smartphone is the new opium, then I agree.

Apparently people in China has been known to sell a kidney for an iPhone.

It is simplistic. My point there was that products considered good in one market may not be of much interest, for a variety of reasons, in another. And some can become such a passion that they lead to deleterious results.